Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIV

[FIRE DRURY]

Kreider, at a similar age, was producing roughly as much as Buch is right now. Same with Mika.

Like 99.99999% of 23 year olds, there are areas of his game that need improvement. Is benching him the real answer? I'm not sure. I think these early 20-something year old kids need to play as much as possible to reach their ceilings.

 

[RGY]

AV is a good coach who reached the SCF with 2 teams, and won president's trophies with 2 teams. Let's not pretend AV is a bad coach. Quinn hasn't achieved anything close to quay AV has (yet). Some players do well after a coaching change, regardless of who the departing coach is.

Respect you AK but...

Lets be clear about something AV is a coach who needs a specific group of players for him to succeed. Aka he needs quality veterans with leadership capabilites. This was spoken about a couple months ago when the Edmonton and STL jobs opened on Siriusxm. AV was suggested and quickly shot down. Those teams were too young and/or inexperienced for him to step in. They didnt have the personnel to lean on for AV to have his message voiced through. AV doesnt connect well with players other than his captains. Thats a huge problem. You cant have a one dimensional coach. Even in those cup runs, AV had significant flaws. His teams made no in-game adjustments when they were being severely outplayed because 1) he didnt have the answer and 2) the message didnt come from him, he lets the vets/captains fo the talking. That isnt coaching. His defenseive system, especially in our own zone was completely flawed with loose coverage on the pointmen allowing for a constant firing range and possession. And he was shitty with personnel decisions for lineups.

But lets stop bringing up AV. No mas.

Quinn isnt without his faults and flaws but he is a rookie head coach who doesnt have all the best tools to work with. And i think he is doing a fantastic job making progress, however big or small, with what he has. The players listen to him because imo he commands respect. He has a certain demeanor with how he carries himself. Although i dont always agree with some decisions, he is doing it in the best interest of the player’s development, whether that is scratching ADA or Buch.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

And what is that? Hold players accountable? Not sugar coating things? Try to get the players to play defense in their own zone? Play hard? Bring a consistent effort? Be ready to play and not get ambushed within the first 5 minutes of puck drop? How about within the first 2 minutes?

Gimme a break.

His player personnel decisions, so many god awful choices which he continues getting away with. Between Deangelo, Buch, Mcleod, Staal-Pionk, Chytil, Howden, and Andersson he's consistently been awful.
How is he holding people accountable when trash bags like Staal, and Mcleod continue to play while guys like DeAngelo and Buch have consistently getting ****ed over by Quinn

 

[haohmaru]

When two separate head coaches and their assistants come to the same conclusions about a specific player, I’d venture that says more about the player than the coaches.

 

[RGY]

But, you are okay with Quinn trying to win games. RB doesn’t like that approach. Quinn is interfering with the complete tanking for Hughes.

This is in essence RB’s problem. DQ isnt losing enough therefore he is awful...

 

[kvakklunch]

If he knows Quinn and knows guys who had him had as a coach, why couldn’t he elaborate why to be careful of him?

He is no longer among us.

 

[Crease]

I really don’t like Quinn. I have a buddy from Boston. He played high school prep hockey but he wasn’t good enough to get a scholarship. He knows Quinn and knows players who are more familiar with Quinn. He told me last year to be careful of Quinn. I saw him on the subway a few weeks ago and asked what I thought of Quinny. Not good. Quinn is awful.

Jack Eichel: "He's a friend to me, a mentor and he's been pretty close to me even through my first few years in the NHL. He was so good to me at BU and we have such a good relationship."

Clayton Keller: "Coach Quinn was the reason why I came to BU and it was a great place for me."

Brady Tkachuk: Quinn was "really important" to him, was "one of the big reasons" why he went to BU and that he will "miss" playing for him.

 

[DutchNYR]

He is no longer among us.

Be careful now, buddy. This is your quinntessential flaming.

 

[RGY]

His player personnel decisions, so many god awful choices which he continues getting away with. Between Deangelo, Buch, Mcleod, Staal-Pionk, Chytil, Howden, and Andersson he's consistently been awful.
How is he holding people accountable when trash bags like Staal, and Mcleod continue to play while guys like DeAngelo and Buch have consistently getting ****ed over by Quinn

This is freaking crybabyish its unreal.

ADA doesnt provide consistent defensive play. That is the problem. He does boneheaded stupid things that he needs to stop doing. He isnt 18 or 19 anymore. If he wants to be an NHL defenseman he needs to do more than what he is. Plain and simple. And i am an ADA supporter.

Buch, same thing as above.

Staal...really? Staal is the veteran on this defense. He is a leader in the lockerroom. And quite frankly he hasnt been terrible considering half the defense consists of inexperienced young players. It puts more of a burden on him. He is a #4-#6 defenseman in the league, but on this team who knows who is what here. Thats not Quinn’s fault

Pionk. Young defenseman. Needs to learn. Sink or swim. What is Quinn doing wrong here? I dont understand the bitching.

As much as i despise McLeod, who is the alternative option that can protect the kids? Who can make sure we dont get our asses beat? Who is it? Who in Hartford? I want to know. If you can tell me a forward who can drop the gloves and be an upgrade to his line, name him. Its not Beleskey thats for sure.

Chytil. Young forward only 19. We dont need to overwhelm him. Meanwhile he also needs to round out the other facets of the game. Sometimes thats easier to be done on the 3rd and 4th line with shorter shifts than being on the top two lines with longer shifts against the opposing teams top lines. DQ has shifted him up and down at times. He is still finding his way. Again baseless complaining by you

Howden, yea he should sit or go down. But you do realize that JG is involved in that decision too. Drury. They are involved. Its not all on DQ. And regardless, he isnt going to be PERFECT.


Get a grip

 

[Lion Hound]

Panarin;

Jarmo apparently just uttered the following...

"If we have to make a hard decision, we will"

Looking like there will be a new top rental piece available. Initially thinking this really hurts the value for Hayes, or Zucc...But, if Panarin is traded as a rental, it's going to create opportunity for Counter-moves from the rest of the playoff bound clubs.

 

[pblawr]

This (and the situation w DeAngelo) reminds me of an article I read about Babcock and Marner a year or two ago. Babcock had been limiting Marner's ice time and when he was asked why, he said that Marner had to improve his play away from the puck and limiting ice time was the most effective way to get a player's attention. If Babcock, who is indisputably one of the best coaches in hockey, thought that was the best way to handle Marner, who is way more talented than DeAngelo or Buchnevich, then it seems to me like a pretty reasonable way for Quinn to handle our young talent. The key to developing our players is getting them to change their behavior in a way that makes them better hockey players. If limiting their ice time does that more effectively than playing them all the time, I'm all for it.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I actually liked Buch's game on the McLeod purgatory line, and I'm generally hard on him

 

[Ola]

He seems to be getting more from players AV couldn’t. So far he doesn’t throw up any reg flags for me

Is this really true though?

Right until the end AV was said to be horrible at bringing in kids and getting results from his players. When you looked at the bottom line it’s really hard to support a statement like that. More or less every kid we got could come in and reach/exceed expectations besides McIlrath. Right? Was it wrong by AV to give Kreider/Miller some tough love? I don’t know, looking back it seems like they were brought in pretty well — right?

I am just kind of allergic against some statements that aren’t really based on reality — they really tend to become truths that are acted upon after a while.

 

[SA16]

This (and the situation w DeAngelo) reminds me of an article I read about Babcock and Marner a year or two ago. Babcock had been limiting Marner's ice time and when he was asked why, he said that Marner had to improve his play away from the puck and limiting ice time was the most effective way to get a player's attention. If Babcock, who is indisputably one of the best coaches in hockey, thought that was the best way to handle Marner, who is way more talented than DeAngelo or Buchnevich, then it seems to me like a pretty reasonable way for Quinn to handle our young talent. The key to developing our players is getting them to change their behavior in a way that makes them better hockey players. If limiting their ice time does that more effectively than playing them all the time, I'm all for it.

Marner has never really had limited ice time. He's had one career game under 11 minutes and 12 under 14. And the game under 11 mins was because he left injured and missed the next two weeks.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

But, you are okay with Quinn trying to win games. RB doesn’t like that approach. Quinn is interfering with the complete tanking for Hughes.

I understand him wanting the opportunity to draft Hughes. But if you have to get rid of Zib, Hayes, Kreider and whoever else to do that, what kind of team are you adding him to? The team would be awful for years, even with Hughes.

 

[pblawr]

Marner has never really had limited ice time. He's had one career game under 11 minutes and 12 under 14. And the game under 11 mins was because he left injured and missed the next two weeks.

"Marner did it despite spending a great deal of time on the fourth line in the first half of the season and averaging 16:23 of ice time, 11th on the team"

Mitch Marner is a long way from the Maple Leafs’ fourth line | The Star

 

[Ola]

This (and the situation w DeAngelo) reminds me of an article I read about Babcock and Marner a year or two ago. Babcock had been limiting Marner's ice time and when he was asked why, he said that Marner had to improve his play away from the puck and limiting ice time was the most effective way to get a player's attention. If Babcock, who is indisputably one of the best coaches in hockey, thought that was the best way to handle Marner, who is way more talented than DeAngelo or Buchnevich, then it seems to me like a pretty reasonable way for Quinn to handle our young talent. The key to developing our players is getting them to change their behavior in a way that makes them better hockey players. If limiting their ice time does that more effectively than playing them all the time, I'm all for it.

EDM never have any problems with playing kids, are they doing a good job developing their youth?

Seriously these labels coaches get are so extremely random that it annoys the heck out of me. How many pts would Oscar Lindberg score in the NHL if he got a better development coach than AV? Skjei? Fast? JT Miller? Kreider? Brassard? McD? Talbot? Hayes? Vesey? Zuccarello scores 8 pts the year before AV came to NY. Miller and Kreider scores 7 pts — between them.

Seriously on which basis can anyone come to the conclusion that AV didn’t do a good job developing talent in NY? He had very little to work with and still got very much out of the kids he got. Seriously, I can’t think of a single kid that underperformed other than McIlrath. Etem? Didn’t exactly do better elsewhere. Jensen? Hrivik? Not from my POV.

 

[effen]

But, you are okay with Quinn trying to win games. RB doesn’t like that approach. Quinn is interfering with the complete tanking for Hughes.

 

[LORDE]

Marner has never really had limited ice time. He's had one career game under 11 minutes and 12 under 14. And the game under 11 mins was because he left injured and missed the next two weeks.

So he got the message.

Yet Buch and ADA (hopefully has) need to get repeatedly shocked after grabbing the cheese over and over and over again.

Maybe they should... I dunno... learn?

 

[Ola]

So the odds of us getting Hughes are the same as someone flipping heads with a coin 98 straight times, correct?

 

[SA16]

"Marner did it despite spending a great deal of time on the fourth line in the first half of the season and averaging 16:23 of ice time, 11th on the team"

Mitch Marner is a long way from the Maple Leafs’ fourth line | The Star

That is one fake news article if I've ever seen one. Over the first 41 games Marner averaged 15:40 per game which was 7th most among forwards on a team that had very little spread in TOI. To try to rank a forwards ice time and include all the defenseman in just so hilariously biased.

Additionalyl he did not play a "great deal" on the 4th line at any point.
He played 1092 5v5 mins last year with the following centers:
1. Bozak 434 minutes
2. Kadri 424 mins (858 total)
3. Matthews 73 mins (931 mins total)
4. Moore 39 mins (970 mins total)
5. Plekanec 8 mins (978 mins total)

That leaves and additional 112 mins which I presume was time with Nylander at C, or Marleau at C which is also not a 4th line. So maybe 47 mins on 4th line all year with Moore/Plekanec centering it.

So he got the message.

Yet Buch and ADA (hopefully has) need to get repeatedly shocked after grabbing the cheese over and over and over again.

Maybe they should... I dunno... learn?

No I'm saying the statement is false. Marner played a few games on the 4th line and that's it.

 

[RGY]

Panarin;

Jarmo apparently just uttered the following...

"If we have to make a hard decision, we will"

Looking like there will be a new top rental piece available. Initially thinking this really hurts the value for Hayes, or Zucc...But, if Panarin is traded as a rental, it's going to create opportunity for Counter-moves from the rest of the playoff bound clubs.

And/or take what CBJ receives for Panarin in exchange for Hayes or Zucc. Or at least part of it.

 

[Lion Hound]

And/or take what CBJ receives for Panarin in exchange for Hayes or Zucc. Or at least part of it.

Didn't think of that. Could get a little crazy at the deadline.

 

[Ola]

So he got the message.

Yet Buch and ADA (hopefully has) need to get repeatedly shocked after grabbing the cheese over and over and over again.

Maybe they should... I dunno... learn?

Hayes got the message, starting from year 3. He was what 25 y/o at that time?

The marginals are getting smaller, the game is more competitive than ever. I think that is a huge part of the explanation for why it may take a lot longer for a kid. It’s not really about getting it and putting out your skates. It’s about getting to a point where you are clearly above 4-500 other very talented athletic players having spent their first 25+ years solely at trying to become as good as possible in the same sport as you.

Like how good do you need to be at hockey to be a 50-60 pts scorer in the NHL? The answer is very very very good.

 

[effen]

So the odds of us getting Hughes are the same as someone flipping heads with a coin 98 straight times, correct?

Flipping heads between 5 and 6 straight times.

Stick to hockey, math is hard xD