Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIV

[I Eat Crow]

The most upsetting thing about Buchnevich is that he'll probably go somewhere else that will just let him play and he'll be a consistent 55-60 point player. Put him with defensively responsible linemates and give him power play time and just tell him to go out there and play.

I feel so sad thinking about Buchnevich potentially in a Caps uniform absolutely torching us for the next 8 years after dealing him for Burakovsky, or something.

 

[Crease]

Quinn clearly thinks Buch is lazy cause he still is getting a descent amount of points

Add him to the pile of guys who can't score enough to slot in the top six and doesn't have enough other elements to slot in the bottom six.

 

[kvakklunch]

When 2 coaches has problems with his effort. Its the player. They will trade him this year for sure.

 

[True Blue]

If we include Nieves in the trade I expect at least another 1st round pick to come back with Hughes. That synergy is something you don't find in the draft

And if you include some rights to Zuccarello jersey sales the return is even greater.

 

[True Blue]

How many times must Buch get a reminder to play with effort before he gets it? Seems like a rotten apple. Namestnikov got some effort. He could learn from him.

You cite a good example. Hopefully he can also talk to ADA about what it takes to get into the line up.

 

[Ori]

1) There is a market clearing rate for everything. But the price for Kreider is a king's ransom.

2) Who is trading to you a sure top pick in the draft for Kreider?

2) Yes it will be difficult.



Jack Hughes will be the #1st overall pick in 2019 no doubts about that, @Profet

 

[Ghost of jas]

1) There is a market clearing rate for everything. But the price for Kreider is a king's ransom.

2) Who is trading to you a sure top pick in the draft for Kreider?

The teams that have a top ten pick are not necessarily the teams who need a Kreider. People fantasize about a massive package coming back for Kreider, but, I’m not sure there’s a team that can meet the price who’s willing to pay the price. Teams like the Blues and Panthers may have some of the pieces, but, I’m wanting a top ten pick and two quality prospects. Otherwise, it’s not really worth trading him for the standard trade package. And, the Oilers are a non-starter to me.

 

[RGY]

Honestly, I’d prefer that to the half assed method that many on here want to go with.

But yeah, they don’t need to ice an AHL team either.

I just hope people are prepared for it to happen organically if they whiff on the free agent market this summer.

I 100% agree and I am prepared for that. But it doesn’t have to be stripped down. You can keep Kreider and Zibanejad and still make significant progress in your rebuild. They may not get a top 3 pick but they will have a high pick and multiple picks.

If they sign Panarin and add a good defenseman this offseason, the rebuild speeds up

 

[RGY]

How bad could Buch’s effort really be on the 4th line? I mean we have Cody Mcleod getting starts...
The guy is a .53 ppg player in the NHL with limited minutes. I understand wanting him to play better defensively and have more effort, but to me .53 ppg is pretty damn good for what he has had to work with in minutes and linemates. How many goals against is he directly at fault for this year?

Just seems silly to sit him. Its not like this team is contending or has a ton of depth to rotate him out.

 

[RGY]

The teams that have a top ten pick are not necessarily the teams who need a Kreider. People fantasize about a massive package coming back for Kreider, but, I’m not sure there’s a team that can meet the price who’s willing to pay the price. Teams like the Blues and Panthers may have some of the pieces, but, I’m wanting a top ten pick and two quality prospects. Otherwise, it’s not really worth trading him for the standard trade package. And, the Oilers are a non-starter to me.

This x1000

We will not get the return Kreider is worth. Keeping Kreider outweighs that.

He is also finding his game on a more consistent level. Sure he doesnt produce every night but he is healthy and has been better under Quinn imo

 

[LORDE]

How bad could Buch’s effort really be on the 4th line? I mean we have Cody Mcleod getting starts...
The guy is a .53 ppg player in the NHL with limited minutes. I understand wanting him to play better defensively and have more effort, but to me .53 ppg is pretty damn good for what he has had to work with in minutes and linemates. How many goals against is he directly at fault for this year?

Just seems silly to sit him. Its not like this team is contending or has a ton of depth to rotate him out.

May not be in games... may be in practice.

Quinn is here to develop... if he feels this is right then I’ll agree for now. Don’t we have to? He’s not a year in yet.

Two coaches have benched Buch. Two have questioned his effort. Two coaches with varying styles and disciplines.

It’s on the player at some point.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Buchnevich is apparently a healthy scratch tonight. Rangers are playing 7 defensemen.

He's going to be dealt at the deadline or this summer.

Who is going to trade for him? Every team has a talented young player who can't put it together. I see no value for a guy like him

 

[SA16]

Give Buch a long term deal. He'll come relatively cheap at this point. This is the kind of guy you want to give a long term deal to and not bridge (unlike Skjei). There's some upside and you know the floor is he's still a competent scorer.

Effort is so overrated it's unbelievable.

Howden has been one of the worst players in the league over the last 3 months yet he plays every game and generally gets big minutes because he works hard.

Buchnevich has not been great but he is one of the teams better players yet he gets scratched all the time or plays with McLeod because he appears lazy.

How about just...playing the good players and not playing the bad players? You're not going to change him. He's been in the league for 3 years already after playing professionally in Russia for four. Some guys just are what they are.

Effort is also generally synonymous with bad. How many times does Joe call a team with a bad record "dangerous because they work really hard" or whatever nonsense narrative there is? That's what these hockey guys think.

 

[CTRanger]

Kreider is a real good player but...
We would get the return that Kreider is worth, we just wouldn’t get the return that most on these boards feel Kreider is worth. Muzzin is a real good Player. Similar contract situation to McDonagh last year. The market looks to be a first plus 2 solid prospects. Kreider would return something similar. A first and 2 solid prospects. This board will/would probably be severely disappointed in the return but most on here are not realistic and extremely over value our players.

 

[True Blue]

The teams that have a top ten pick are not necessarily the teams who need a Kreider. People fantasize about a massive package coming back for Kreider, but, I’m not sure there’s a team that can meet the price who’s willing to pay the price. Teams like the Blues and Panthers may have some of the pieces, but, I’m wanting a top ten pick and two quality prospects. Otherwise, it’s not really worth trading him for the standard trade package. And, the Oilers are a non-starter to me.

Agreed with ever word

 

[SA16]

Anyway in return for Kreider they should forget about the standard package of "1st+prospects" and just forego the pick and aim for better prospects. The pick is always a late pick since it's a contender. Not that they would have done it but for example in the McDonagh deal forget all the surplus and just make the deal for Sergachev. The trade is one for one. Go for their best prospects who you already have information about instead of the lottery card of a late draft pick plus guys who are generally lesser prospects without big time upside. You want our first line winger who is arguably the best player on the team? Then we want your best prospect in return not a mish-mash of random stuff. Teams get so bogged down in these standards where "We want a first round pick, a B prospect, and a roster player" instead of just going for something better. Now if we're talking an early 1st like for Stepan that's an entirely different story but that's not the type of deal that gets done midseason.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

And if you include some rights to Zuccarello jersey sales the return is even greater.

I'm willing to forfeit a pick if we can offload Webster though

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Who is going to trade for him? Every team has a talented young player who can't put it together. I see no value for a guy like him

Those guys usually get traded for each other.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

Very upset about Buch. Was hoping for soooooooooo much more.

I'm not disappointed. He was a 3rd round pick for a reason. We can always hope that we'll get a Marchand/Bergeron type steal out of a 3rd rounder, but generally speaking, scouts and GMs know what they're doing and those types of steals rarely happen.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Give Buch a long term deal. He'll come relatively cheap at this point. This is the kind of guy you want to give a long term deal to and not bridge (unlike Skjei). There's some upside and you know the floor is he's still a competent scorer.

Effort is so overrated it's unbelievable.

Howden has been one of the worst players in the league over the last 3 months yet he plays every game and generally gets big minutes because he works hard.

Buchnevich has not been great but he is one of the teams better players yet he gets scratched all the time or plays with McLeod because he appears lazy.

How about just...playing the good players and not playing the bad players? You're not going to change him. He's been in the league for 3 years already after playing professionally in Russia for four. Some guys just are what they are.

Effort is also generally synonymous with bad. How many times does Joe call a team with a bad record "dangerous because they work really hard" or whatever nonsense narrative there is? That's what these hockey guys think.

"Give Buchnevich a long-term deal" is some truly bizarro world BS.

As is the notion that he's a "good player" because he's got some offensive flash and can dangle.

As if the notion that effort can somehow be optional due to mitigating factors.

Look, taking a flyer on a guy like Buchnevich each night when you've got a well-established team in search of some offense is a different story. But considering where this team is right now...him not getting with the program is toxic. Maybe thats a sacrifice you make for a guy with off the charts skills but, to me, I find Buchnevich to be incredibly overrated on this board. He seems like just a middling forward with some offensive skill not willing to put the work in.

 

[RGY]

Anyway in return for Kreider they should forget about the standard package of "1st+prospects" and just forego the pick and aim for better prospects. The pick is always a late pick since it's a contender. Not that they would have done it but for example in the McDonagh deal forget all the surplus and just make the deal for Sergachev. The trade is one for one. Go for their best prospects who you already have information about instead of the lottery card of a late draft pick plus guys who are generally lesser prospects without big time upside. You want our first line winger who is arguably the best player on the team? Then we want your best prospect in return not a mish-mash of random stuff. Teams get so bogged down in these standards where "We want a first round pick, a B prospect, and a roster player" instead of just going for something better. Now if we're talking an early 1st like for Stepan that's an entirely different story but that's not the type of deal that gets done midseason.

Ok this all sound great but Tampa wasnt offering Sergachev. And with good reason. So then what? Your theory/plan is squashed.

The Rangers pretty much had to trade McDonagh. His game took a step back and they were going to have to make a decision on the next contract soon. There are a lot of miles on that body.

The situation with Kreider is different. They dont have to trade Kreider. They can afford to re-sign him, they have plenty of cap space. His game/production is actually progressing. And while he has missed time, he is in great physical shape. His body will hold up over a 4-5 year extension imo.

Any trade they make with a contender, they are getting prospects back, whether they are the #1 rated prospect in the system (which we wont get or is in the NHL helping the contending team) or other prospects. And they will be just as much of a gamble as Howden/Hajek are.

Moot point.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Who is going to trade for him? Every team has a talented young player who can't put it together. I see no value for a guy like him

Canes might take him as an add.

 

[BBKers]

Toronto will trade Nylander for something good now. Kreider plus fits that mold. Zucc to Dallas. Hayes to Calgary. McQuaid somewhere too. Buch for Poolparty plus. Now RB might take me off his block list...

 

[Lion Hound]

I don't think Buch is going anywhere. Also think he factors into the long terms plans for the Rangers. Certainly not un-tradeable but i don't think he is a name that Gorton is tossing around.

Names I would assume Gorton is tossing out there would be Namestnikov, and Fast. Of course #13, #36, as well.

 

[Zibanejbread]