Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

[Tawnos]

Something still stinks to me about the Buchnevich situation to me. There had to have been an issue in the locker room or behind the scenes with him. It just feels like Drury took the best offer based on the ownership mandate and took a lower than market value deal for Buch. It's one thing if the Rangers didn't want to pay him what St. Louis gave him on a long term deal, but why not accept the arbitration award for a year and see what develops? It's not like the Rangers are hurting for cap space. You can't tell me that the Rangers couldn't have gotten Blais and a 2nd or equivalent value at the deadline this season.

I was really upset with the return on the Buchnevich trade as well, at first. But you say below market, and I think I've realized that it was below market for some years, but not *this* year. My evidence?

Viktor Arvidsson for a 2nd and a 3rd
Sam Reinhart for a 1st and a B goalie prospect
Arizona takes on 3 cap dumps, and trades OEL and Garland for 9OA and a 2nd.

I've said this elsewhere. What those three trades, plus the Buchnevich trade, tell me is that top-6 wingers just weren't worth what we'd normally expect on the trade market this off-season. And St Louis STILL hasn't gotten a decent enough offer for Tarasenko. In reality, the Buchnevich trade and the Reinhart trade are essentially equal value. Buffalo got the better draft pick, but the Rangers got an actual NHL player. We've seen this happen in the winger market before... at the 2019 deadline when we traded Zuccarello and couldn't get a guaranteed 1st for him.

I absolutely think the Rangers could have gotten equivalent value for Buchnevich at the deadline next season. I absolutely do not think that would've been a smart move. The goal this season is to make the playoffs. If they're in the race in February/March, why would they even be trading their 1st or 2nd line RW? Now you're in self-rental territory. But for a team that's aiming at the playoffs and not the Cup, that's a bad idea. This off-season was the right time to trade him. Just sucks the market was what it was.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

After they cleaned house why did ADA have to be bought out?

The DeAngelo buy out was a decision that was carried far wider than just JD and Gorton. He literally fought a teammate. That's not something that gets shoved under the carpet when the GM leaves.

 

[huerter]

Teammates fight all the time. Another nothing burger.

 

[haohmaru]

After they cleaned house why did ADA have to be bought out?

Honestly, that's a courtesy to the player who, otherwise, would sit for another year. It didn't cost them a lot but otherwise it could be a career killer.

The ADA situation was just another really poor reflection on management (and on the player, too, don't get me wrong) that, coupled with Lias, Lundqvist, etc... just took its toll on the owner I guess.

 

[haohmaru]

The DeAngelo buy out was a decision that was carried far wider than just JD and Gorton. He literally fought a teammate. That's not something that gets shoved under the carpet when the GM leaves.

Didn't Georgiev throw the first punch? I mean, ADA's mouth "started" it but the fight, from the accounts that I read, wasn't initiated by DeAngelo.

 

[SA16]

The DeAngelo buy out was a decision that was carried far wider than just JD and Gorton. He literally fought a teammate. That's not something that gets shoved under the carpet when the GM leaves.

Teammates fighting is not at all uncommon. Happens nearly daily in NFL training camps too.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Didn't Georgiev throw the first punch? I mean, ADA's mouth "started" it but the fight, from the accounts that I read, wasn't initiated by DeAngelo.

That's irrelevant. DeAngelo was involved in an incident that was the final straw for him. He was warned that if there was 1 more altercation involving him, his career as a Ranger would be over. JD and Gorton said this in the press conference.

DeAngelo f***ed this up for himself, no one else.

 

[aufheben]

plus, Kakko, LaF,and Kravtsov need the ice time. These guys are going to have to start playing all situations minutes if you want them to develop. That’s how Buch got better. By playing

Not trying to be a dick but I’m skeptical that there’s much to support that.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Only way I can rationalize anything more behind the scenes with Buch is perhaps that he was considered "not serious enough." Absolutely nothing to base that on other than how well liked and happy-go-lucky he seemed, as well as how funny & candid he often was in the media. Yes I realize how ridiculous that sounds but this is the NHL we are talking about.

 

[Fitzy]

I just don’t see how teams were bothered by what Buchnevich was going to be paid in a flat cap world when GMs were out giving 10 million a year contracts to 21 year old defensemen.

Buchnevich is worth every penny of that contract he signed. Much more than Kreider has this far

 

[egelband]

Not trying to be a dick but I’m skeptical that there’s much to support that.

I’ve defected to the Quinn-had-to-go camp. But I also think he did a lot of good in terms of developing these guys. All in all he wasn’t the right guy, at the end of the day. But he wasn’t a disaster either.

 

[huerter]

Some of the shit you guys are putting on Gorton is ridiculous. Gorton was the one who brought in Lemieux, DeAngelo, and Trouba in the first place.

and Jack Johnson and let Fast walk who ended up signing for a hell of a bargain contract. Did the podcast ask about any of that?

 

[RangerBoy]

Gorton said the Rangers didn't have toughness in the lineup because they wanted to give young players an opportunity. Colin Blackwell wasn't a young guy and played over the Rangers young guys. Maybe they should have acquired tougher/harder player(s) to play against and given a young player the opportunities Quinn gave Blackwell.

Andy Strickland and Cam Janssen don't watch the Rangers. They didn't know.

 

[eco's bones]

Nils Lundkvist is a more complete player than DeAngelo and the Rangers drafting Schneider pretty much numbered DeAngelo’s days here. Tony can run a power play but we found out this year Fox can run it better and Fox can defend. Tony’s not a very good defender. He’s about the last guy for instance you’d want to see on your penalty kill. Sorry but Tony is not a big loss and I wonder about the Canes who now have three of our iffiest defenders from a couple season’s back in Skjei, Smith and DeAngelo. What’s with that?

 

[jay from jersey]

Not trying to be a dick but I’m skeptical that there’s much to support that.

Buch got better when given more minutes. Every year he got better. He also wasn’t know as a Pk option. Then he played there, and turned out he was good at it. Wing is a crowded position as it sits now, odds are 1-2 guys that could be playing won’t already. The cost of his next deal wasn’t going to be a long term option. The players need to play. They can only watch or get limited by minutes or poor line mate options for so long

 

[EdJovanovski]

Nils Lundkvist is a more complete player than DeAngelo and the Rangers drafting Schneider pretty much numbered DeAngelo’s days here. Tony can run a power play but we found out this year Fox can run it better and Fox can defend. Tony’s not a very good defender. He’s about the last guy for instance you’d want to see on your penalty kill. Sorry but Tony is not a big loss and I wonder about the Canes who now have three of our iffiest defenders from a couple season’s back in Skjei, Smith and DeAngelo. What’s with that?

I know I'm the resident DeAngelo fanboy but I wouldn't necessarily say Fox runs the PP better. DeAngelo was phenomenal on the PP, I remember in 19-20 when DeAngelo got hurt our PP fell off a cliff without him. The way he dances along the blue line with that crazy edge work, how uptempo he was and how much swagger he had and how he commanded the play. He did everything so fast, and was also a threat to shoot. Fox slows the game down, and isn't a threat to shoot. I think Lundkvist plays the PP a lot more similar to DeAngelo than Fox. Both are types that you need. What Fox is best at is keeping the puck in the blue line with his wizardry, but Lundkvist & DeAngelo bring a different type of tempo to the PP.

 

[LokiDog]

I know I'm the resident DeAngelo fanboy but I wouldn't necessarily say Fox runs the PP better. DeAngelo was phenomenal on the PP, I remember in 19-20 when DeAngelo got hurt our PP fell off a cliff without him. The way he dances along the blue line with that crazy edge work, how uptempo he was and how much swagger he had and how he commanded the play. He did everything so fast, and was also a threat to shoot. Fox slows the game down, and isn't a threat to shoot. I think Lundkvist plays the PP a lot more similar to DeAngelo than Fox. Both are types that you need. What Fox is best at is keeping the puck in the blue line with his wizardry, but Lundkvist & DeAngelo bring a different type of tempo to the PP.

I would probably say DeAngelo is the more “talented” offensive defenseman and the PP with him on it was more “deadly”, in that when something opened up there were just too many options to defend against. Fox is a more cerebral PP option. With Fox, something CAN open up, that wouldn’t otherwise be there, although his touch on a pass or his shot threat isn’t as high. Fox will get you more chances per 2:00 by creating things that never would have existed. DeAngelo will get you a higher conversion rate on your chances per 2:00 because he is an overall higher threat himself. I think it’s really about quite equal, with the caveat being Fox is less likely to get caught, more likely to recover and overall far better in his own end and through the neutral zone.

 

[will1066]

Nils Lundkvist is a more complete player than DeAngelo and the Rangers drafting Schneider pretty much numbered DeAngelo’s days here. Tony can run a power play but we found out this year Fox can run it better and Fox can defend. Tony’s not a very good defender. He’s about the last guy for instance you’d want to see on your penalty kill. Sorry but Tony is not a big loss and I wonder about the Canes who now have three of our iffiest defenders from a couple season’s back in Skjei, Smith and DeAngelo. What’s with that?

DeAngelo would've been this team's Mike Green, which would've been just fine. Was never going to be first pair shutdown minutes eater.

 

[egelband]

Nils Lundkvist is a more complete player than DeAngelo and the Rangers drafting Schneider pretty much numbered DeAngelo’s days here. Tony can run a power play but we found out this year Fox can run it better and Fox can defend. Tony’s not a very good defender. He’s about the last guy for instance you’d want to see on your penalty kill. Sorry but Tony is not a big loss and I wonder about the Canes who now have three of our iffiest defenders from a couple season’s back in Skjei, Smith and DeAngelo. What’s with that?

DeAngelo isn’t a huge loss. True. But getting nothing for him was a mistake.

 

[NYRKing]

Weird we’re sitting here with 12M of cap space still…

 

[EdJovanovski]

I would probably say DeAngelo is the more “talented” offensive defenseman and the PP with him on it was more “deadly”, in that when something opened up there were just too many options to defend against. Fox is a more cerebral PP option. With Fox, something CAN open up, that wouldn’t otherwise be there, although his touch on a pass or his shot threat isn’t as high. Fox will get you more chances per 2:00 by creating things that never would have existed. DeAngelo will get you a higher conversion rate on your chances per 2:00 because he is an overall higher threat himself. I think it’s really about quite equal, with the caveat being Fox is less likely to get caught, more likely to recover and overall far better in his own end and through the neutral zone.

Agree with some of that but disagree with getting caught, I think Fox gets caught more than DeAngelo. Fox is an average skater, he doesn’t get back very quick. DeAngelo is a tremendous skater. Neither get caught anywhere near as badly as Trouba does though lol

 

[jay from jersey]

Weird we’re sitting here with 12M of cap space still…

That’s why I don’t think we’re done. Whether it’s Eichel, or a different trade on the horizon
As it sits now, we will probably lose Gauthier to waivers, and the winger situation is still way too up in the air

LaF-...-kakko
Panarin..—Kravtsov/ Kakko/Blais
Kreider—— Goodrow
Doubt Blais is destined for 4th duty, but we will see.
4 - Hunt——Reaves
Gauthier??
And that’s with no Barron. Assuming Zibby-Strome-Chytil-Rooney is how they want to start the year down the middle.

would also not surprise me in the least if Gallant runs a line of
Kreider-Zibby-LaF coming out of camp. He said he would have no problem shifting LaF to RW in an interview to see how it works.

 

[LokiDog]

Agree with some of that but disagree with getting caught, I think Fox gets caught more than DeAngelo. Fox is an average skater, he doesn’t get back very quick. DeAngelo is a tremendous skater. Neither get caught anywhere near as badly as Trouba does though lol

Well, to be fair, I don’t mean getting caught because he can’t get back. I mean getting caught because he’s making the wrong/risky play. Fox may not RECOVER as well when he does get caught, but I’d argue he finds himself in the position of having to recover significantly less frequently. DeAngelo can negate many of the times that he makes a blunder or bad decision with his skating. Fox can’t always do that, but gives the opponent the opportunity to prove that less frequently.

 

[Bruner4329]

I can't believe people are still talking about TDA and some still wondering why he had to be bought out. I love the phrase teammates always fight. This is being totally clueless. TDA has exhausted his welcome on this team. I will avoid using the normal phrase but he was a sickness to this team. He had alienated too many in the locker room. He caused his own demise. Time to move on from this ridiculous conversation.

 

[bigdog16]

I can't believe people are still talking about TDA and some still wondering why he had to be bought out. I love the phrase teammates always fight. This is being totally clueless. TDA has exhausted his welcome on this team. I will avoid using the normal phrase but he was a sickness to this team. He had alienated too many in the locker room. He caused his own demise. Time to move on from this ridiculous conversation.

While i agree with you on everything regarding TDA, teammates fighting is pretty common.