Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

[Lindberg Cheese]

Looks like even Panarin is getting ready to take on Wilson this season

Just glad the Frampton look is back

 

[haohmaru]

The Rangers have a boatload of money invested in Panarin. Strome can play with him. They know each other. We don't know how Panarin will play with another center.

The Rangers had Nylander to play with Jagr. Nylander got greedy and the Rangers went into another direction. Gomez and Drury. It was only one season but Jagr couldn't play with those guys.

The Rangers need Strome unless a better option comes along.

We need Jagr, too. 2006 Jagr if I have a choice.

 

[bobbop]

Where the f*** is he going to play? He's, at best, 7th on the depth chart on the left at this point.

Sign him to trade him. Easier to make a deal once the player is under contract.

 

[jaywills1020]

Where the f*** is he going to play? He's, at best, 7th on the depth chart on the left at this point.

Injuries happen. Gotta have people to fill in.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sign him to trade him. Easier to make a deal once the player is under contract.

I have a hard time seeing a team giving up a 7th rounder for him but who knows...

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Injuries happen. Gotta have people to fill in.

We have 3 players expected to start, and another 5 to "fill in" when injuries happen.

 

[Fitzy]

Always extremely good news when a veteran you invested a lot of years in is a gym rat.

Panarin and Kreider both have the potential fitness regimens to really extend their effective careers

 

[nyr2k2]

Teams sign all sorts of bad defensemen for a variety of reasons. I wouldn't expect Hajek to have much value, but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that some team who really liked him 3-4 years ago might want to take a gamble on him. He's 23, he certainly wouldn't be the first player (particularly among defensemen) to figure it out at that age or later. You get him under contract and maybe one of those teams comes calling, or maybe some team suffers a rash of injuries to defensemen in camp and sees a guy with 80 games of NHL experience who may still have some upside. No reason to not sign him, IMO.

You could also maybe move him for some other team's old news, or get back a guy that could be a useful AHL player or something.

 

[mas0764]

I just did. I said, Toews would be the ideal.

We agree on Toews. Toews is a Hall of Famer.

Again, I said they have all had elite 1Cs. When someone asked what that was, I said, "PPG production or NEARLY THAT with Selke level defense."

You are right that Toews rarely hit actual PPG levels, but he was at .80 or better for every Cup season they had, plus, as I said, Selke level defense.

Someone who has a complete game but isn't necessarily a PPG player. ROR would be fine, similar, but lesser mold. Point did it ONCE. Bergeron ONCE.

ROR only won the Cup the one year he played Selke level defense but also scored 0.94 PPG.

Bergeron had said Selke-level defense at 0.71 ppg, but he also had Krejci with him at 0.83 ppg and he also got Selke votes. Those are two more guys who are Hall of Famers. They qualify under my definition of "PPG or nearly that plus Selke level defense."

Point scored 0.97 ppg. We splitting hairs?

You said the last 20 years, Devils won in the last 20 years.

The game is not the same as when the Devils won anymore. They aren't really relevant anymore when everything since they last won has been one way - with elite center play. No exceptions to the rule anywhere to be found since them. Like 19 years ago.

You specifically said "Point per game or nearly point per game offensive dominance" So no, they don't all fit your description.

Every single one of winners has that, or two of that.

And no they weren't all actually at 0.8 or higher.

2003 Lightning, Brad Richards, 0.96 ppg and Vincent Lecavalier, 0.81 ppg.
2004 No Champion
2005 Hurricanes, Eric Staal, 1.22 ppg, Rod Brind'Amour, 0.90 ppg.
2006 Ducks, Andy McDonald, 0.95 ppg, Ryan Getzlaf, 0.71 ppg
2007 Red Wings, Pavel Datsyuk 1.18 ppg, Henrik Zetterberg, 1.22 ppg
2008 Penguins, Gino Malkin, 1.37 ppg, Sidney Crosby 1.33 ppg
2009 Blackhawks, Jonathan Toews 0.89 ppg, Patrick Sharp, 0.80 ppg
2010 Bruins, David Krejci, 0.83 ppg, Patrice Bergeron, 0.71 playing Selke defense, team also had Marchand and prime Horton at center.
2011 Kings, Anze Kopitar, 0.93 ppg (this is the first team who DIDN'T have another top level C, though they did have amazing depth with Carter and Richards)
2012 Blackhawks, Jonathan Toews, 1.02 ppg.
2013 Kings, Anze Kopitar, 0.85 ppg, Jeff Carter, 0.69 ppg.
2014 Blackhawks, Jonathan Toews, 0.81 ppg with Selke level defense.
2015 Penguins, Sidney Crosby, 1.06 ppg, Gino Malkin, 1.01 ppg
2016 Penguins, Sidney Crosby, 1.18 ppg, Gino Malkin, 1.16 ppg
2017 Capitals, Evgeny Kuznetsov, 1.05 ppg, Nicklas Backstrom, 0.87 ppg.
2018 Blues, Ryan O'Reilly, 0.94 ppg, Brayden Schenn, 0.75 ppg
2019 Lightning, Brayden Point, 0.97 ppg, Steven Stamkos 1.15 ppg, Alex Killorn 0.72 ppg, Anthony Cirelli, 0.64 ppg.
2020 Lightning, Brayden Point, 0.85 ppg, Steven Stamkos, 0.89 ppg

Actually yeah, they were all at 0.8 or higher.

Go back, check again. And even if they were, that's not "nearly", "NEARLY" would be 0.9 or higher.

Says who?

When I said you need "PPG or nearly that with Selke level defense," this is what I was talking about. That list right there, above.

If you want to play "gotcha," you can point to the fact that just as many times as it was "above," a PPG, it was "only" like 0.94 or 0.96. Fine.

I'll amend: You basically always need either a 0.93 ppg player or higher (which I'll basically classify as a ppg player), OR, a 0.80 ppg player (nearly a ppg player) playing Selke level defense.

That encapsulates just about every single one of the winners since 2003.

And I said Staal had some great years, but he's not a PPG or near a PPG player for his career.

Who the hell is talking about over their careers? To win a Cup you have to have a player playing at essentially a PPG level at center (like 0.93 or higher), or, nearly that (0.80 or higher) plus Selke level defense.

And really most of the teams who win have a well rounded second center at 0.70 and up as well.

And there is no way to tell if a player will be that when you need them.

Huh? I think teams like the Avalanche, Lightning, and Penguins have a pretty good idea what their elite centers are going to give them every year.

And it's not like I said, just throw any Joe Shmo on the 1st line. I'm pretty sure everyone I named has top 6 potential. And the guys you are naming are all 9-10 mil per year players. You want ACTUAL PPG players.

I don't really care what you said. The list is there. It's a list replete with Hall of Fame talents almost without exception, and the ones who are exceptions put up Hall of Fame caliber years, though they failed to duplicate that (which is why they only won once).

There is no argument against this.

The Rangers need a name that is similar to one of the guys on that list above. Those are ppg players or essentially ppg player, or Hall of Fame Selke level across the ice dominators plus 0.8 ppg offense. To give us a good chance at repeating, we could really use two names at center like the list above. To win even one Cup, you gotta have at least one.

The vast, vast minority on that list would be players who merely put up comparable numbers to these Hall of Famers for that year only (McDonald, O'Reilly). So it's possible to win as long as you have a player who -- again -- puts up that 0.94 or 0.95 ppg pace, and, in O'Reilly's case, also chipped in Selke defense, in a given year. So the Rangers would STILL need a player capable of doing that, even to win just one Cup. Who is that if Zibanejad is gone? Chytil? There are no other options, let alone for a second top center/elite #2 center like almost every one of those teams has.

The Rangers need one. There is no debate on this. History proves it. We need at the very least a Ryan O'Reilly capable of putting up 0.94 plus Selke defense, and that example is a one-off, if we want to be repeat contenders we need, like, a Krejci and Bergergon (0.83 and 0.71 ppg plus Selke defense), a Crosby and Malkin (1.0+ ppg for both), a Toews (0.80+ ppg plus Selke defense every year), Kopitar (0.93 ppg), Eric Staal and Rod Brind'Amour (1.22 ppg and 0.9 ppg), Datsyuk and Zetterberg (both 1.0+ ppg), or Point (0.97 ppg plus insane depth everywhere).

I'm off. Keep talking to yourself if you want. Your point was ruined, get over it.

Storming off when you don't have any facts on your side is cool, we all know the score.

 

[mas0764]

When did 25 become to old to grow? You talk about him like hes 34yo. The contract i believe would be around 6-7 m. which i believe is worth it. You then have chytl and Larkin to be with our top wingers for years. Larkin is the do it all player, can win faceoffs, and play defense, and can put up points. I think thats the type of player we should be targeting.

It is magic beans because they are unproven lol. I dont want to take a chance on it ex our own Lias Anderson not being able to hack it.

Only hockeysfuture would people want a prospect over a proven commodity who is still only 24yo. Even if hes 25.. i dont see how he is to old.

I think the stats would say what you are at 24 or 25 is generally where you end up.

He's not a bad player, I just don't see him as a 1C, more a top 2C.

 

[mas0764]

I think once Lundkvist gets into the league, your trade proposals may look a lot different. He is going to be a special player.

Don't trade special players though.