Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

[EdJovanovski]

The defense will be better this coming season just by virtue of Hajek, Jack Johnson, and Smith not getting regular minutes. The first two were literally two of the worst defensemen in hockey when it came to advanced metrics. Nemeth's metrics aren't terrible for what he does and Lundkvist as a righty to bring balance to the defensive corps is going to be a huge boon.

The issue with forward support on the backcheck was a combination of inexperience and poor coaching, I'm not going to dispute that.

Something still stinks to me about the Buchnevich situation to me. There had to have been an issue in the locker room or behind the scenes with him. It just feels like Drury took the best offer based on the ownership mandate and took a lower than market value deal for Buch. It's one thing if the Rangers didn't want to pay him what St. Louis gave him on a long term deal, but why not accept the arbitration award for a year and see what develops? It's not like the Rangers are hurting for cap space. You can't tell me that the Rangers couldn't have gotten Blais and a 2nd or equivalent value at the deadline this season.

I feel like there's more to the story too because that trade is just absolutely ridiculous, especially now in the context of it not being a precursor to another move. Looking at their social media interactions though and how the players interact with each other in videos, I have a very hard time believing there was a locker room issue with Buch. He was probably the most loved player in the room. There are several little cliques and he's one of the only players that seemed to overlap and be friends with all of them (Igor & Panarin) (Mika & Kreider). What I feel like is that Dolan just sorta picked Buch as the scapegoat for that incident and wanted to get rid of him. Maybe he didn't like Buch's antics in that next meetup against Washington too how he went for cheap shots rather than dropping the gloves?

 

[Thirty One]

The defense will be better this coming season just by virtue of Hajek, Jack Johnson, and Smith not getting regular minutes. The first two were literally two of the worst defensemen in hockey when it came to advanced metrics. Nemeth's metrics aren't terrible for what he does and Lundkvist as a righty to bring balance to the defensive corps is going to be a huge boon.

The issue with forward support on the backcheck was a combination of inexperience and poor coaching, I'm not going to dispute that.

Something still stinks to me about the Buchnevich situation to me. There had to have been an issue in the locker room or behind the scenes with him. It just feels like Drury took the best offer based on the ownership mandate and took a lower than market value deal for Buch. It's one thing if the Rangers didn't want to pay him what St. Louis gave him on a long term deal, but why not accept the arbitration award for a year and see what develops? It's not like the Rangers are hurting for cap space. You can't tell me that the Rangers couldn't have gotten Blais and a 2nd or equivalent value at the deadline this season.

I don't think trading him at the deadline was ever or should have been an option. Sends the wrong message in a playoff push.

I'm worried it's going to be a Carl Hagelin situation. The Rangers couldn't afford to sign Hagelin long-term at UFA prices so they traded him with one year left on his deal. The market wasn't what they were hoping for so they traded him for an underwhelming return (Emerson Etem and a trade up in the 2nd round). Then at the trade deadline, they found themselves in want of a top-9 forward and traded for Eric Staal at a price a hell of a lot more than they got for Hagelin.

 

[LOFIN]

-Jokingly said at the end that Panarin speaks perfect english but puts on an act so he doesn't have to deal with the media. It was a joke but it sounded to have at least a little truth to it.

Yeah I mean this stuff is understandable in the 90s when you have those Russian stars coming to the US from the Soviet bubble. Not so much a thing now when 90% of the popular culture and media is in English. Both Panarin and Shestyorkin speak decent English, but love to have that barrier with media through interpreters and Russian language. Pretty sure Kakko said in one interview that Panarin is very vocal in the locker room and obviously that's not only in Russian.

 

[Fitzy]

Something still stinks to me about the Buchnevich situation to me. There had to have been an issue in the locker room or behind the scenes with him. It just feels like Drury took the best offer based on the ownership mandate and took a lower than market value deal for Buch. It's one thing if the Rangers didn't want to pay him what St. Louis gave him on a long term deal, but why not accept the arbitration award for a year and see what develops? It's not like the Rangers are hurting for cap space. You can't tell me that the Rangers couldn't have gotten Blais and a 2nd or equivalent value at the deadline this season.

The whole "NYR may have walked away from the arbitration 1 year award" Stinks to high f***ing hell.

I have tried justifying it by any approach possible and I've got nothing.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Yeah I mean this stuff is understandable in the 90s when you have those Russian stars coming to the US from the Soviet bubble. Not so much a thing now when 90% of the popular culture and media is in English. Both Panarin and Shestyorkin speak decent English, but love to have that barrier with media through interpreters and Russian language. Pretty sure Kakko said in one interview that Panarin is very vocal in the locker room and obviously that's not only in Russian.

I like the idea of him yelling at the team in Russian more
Give him the C

 

[WojtekWolski86]

The bolded is it.

I 100% am of the opinion that he should have been given the chance to do that this offseason.

At the same time, he should have 100% done it last off season. The line about him wanting to see how the young players could handle adversity was complete and utter BS. They would have had to battle through that shit regardless of whether or not they had support. Those weren't the guys who were the subject of Wilson's torment anyway.

He also contradicted himself when he said having a veteran presence is useful, especially with a guy like Tony D. The team needed a Shanny-like "been there, done that, seen everything" type of vet.

 

[LOFIN]

I like the idea of him yelling at the team in Russian more
Give him the C

He had the A in some matches last season. You'd think a guy who can't speak English probably wouldn't get one?

And you don't need him to shout. This is how you deal with a bad period in the locker room:

 

[egelband]

Gorton had two more seasons left on his Rangers contract. Did he negotiate a buyout with the Garden? He is talking too much. Usually guys who get fired don't say anything. They keep their mouth shut because they don't want to say something wrong and the team refuses to pay them.

I liked Gorton very much. I liked JD too. I grew up with him on the Rangers broadcasts. Everyone did. There was a chaotic feel around the team. Lias Andersson wanted to be traded. He leaves the AHL team. He wouldn't come back to the organization.Tony DeAngelo was a big problem. He had that one solid year in 2019-20. It ended badly here. The fight with Alexandar Georgiev. The twitter nonsense. Artemi Panarin leaving the team because one of his former coaches made decade old allegations and Panarin left the team for 3 weeks. Where did he go? Were those allegations resolved?

Gorton & JD probably would have kept Quinn and his staff. Quinn had two seasons remaining on his contract. If there wasn't improvement in 21-22, Quinn and his staff would have been gone. The players didn't like Quinn very much. Brooks wrote that. Maybe Sather and ownership wanted a coaching change and the Rangers brass wanted to wait another season.

The Rangers didn't make any moves last off-season after losing to Carolina. They had cap issues. The Rangers re-signed their own players. Their major move was signing Jack Johnson. There didn't seem to be an urgency to get better.

The Rangers were quiet at the trade deadline.

I also found in generally weird having a rookie head coach and no captain. And the Lindy Ruff departure was weird too.
And none of these problems, in a vacuum, are critical or damning. But taken together it was a mess. Death by a thousand paper cuts.
JD was a hockey player and an announcer and then a GM. That’s a logical progression. President is a bigger role. And I don’t have any reason to believe Drury is better cut out for it.
Unless MSG leadership is taking a bigger role. Which would make sense. Nothing indicates that’s the case, though.

 

[haohmaru]

JD and Gorton got fired because, as Gorton said, they talked a whole lot about getting tougher but did exactly the opposite. Say what you want about ADA, but he had that sand paper element. Fast, while not a tough guy, was a tough guy to play against along the boards and relentless on the puck. Lundqvist was a team leader that was tough on teammates about losing (and I know there are diverse opinions out there whether or not this was a positive thing). Brendan Lemieux out the door. Jack Johnson made the team worse and less hard to play against.

And, honestly, Dolan has a right to be pissed about contracts - ADA having to be bought out and he and his millions sitting in a house somewhere during the season and wasn't worth a bag of bird seed. Lundqvist bought out. Andersson taking his toys and going home. Inking Lemieux to a two year deal and off he goes. Shattenkirk, Girardi, ADA still on the books for this year.

They talked the talk but didn't walk the walk.

 

[Fitzy]

He had the A in some matches last season. You'd think a guy who can't speak English probably wouldn't get one?

And you don't need him to shout. This is how you deal with a bad period in the locker room:

 

[egelband]

The defensive corps last season was not playoff caliber. It might have been, had we also not had one of the worse groups of forwards in the league in terms of defensive support.

This is one the reasons I found the low self-evaluation of Buchnevich puzzling. He was one of the only guys on the roster consistently backchecking hard last year.

I think the trade was motivated at least to a large extent by St Louis being one of the teams willing to pay Buchnevich. I’m not saying it was altruism. Just that the market for Buchnevich was probably pretty self-limiting. Coupled with the Rangers probably having a previous interest in Blais.

 

[Ola]

The whole "NYR may have walked away from the arbitration 1 year award" Stinks to high f***ing hell.

I have tried justifying it by any approach possible and I've got nothing.

I don’t know, Kakko, Kravy and co must play to develop. Moving Buch was the natural thing to do. If no move is made, we also have the same top 9, it least as “soft” top 9 as before. Right?

Just saying, I can see where Drury was coming from.

 

[Fitzy]

I don’t know, Kakko, Kravy and co must play to develop. Moving Buch was the natural thing to do. If no move is made, we also have the same top 9, it least as “soft” top 9 as before. Right?

Just saying, I can see where Drury was coming from.

Not fully buying this either.

Kakko played almost as much per game at even strength at Buchnevich. The way to get their minutes up is going to be finding ways to get those guys in special teams situations. Goodrow is gonna take close to pretty much all of Buch's PK and ES minutes on the third line. The only thing that opens up is room for one of the two to play with Zibanejad, and we don't even know how long he will be here.

As for the soft top 9? Sure. But it's a little ironic that Buchnevich was above average in our top 9 in the physicality department.

 

[Tob]

Buch acted like a constipated gerbil after the 6 fights that led to the suspension. Dolan 98% saw that as a stain on the night and that was it for Buch. I bet they even got a better offer from an Eastern team.

 

[Fitzy]

Buch acted like a constipated gerbil after the 6 fights that led to the suspension. Dolan 98% saw that as a stain on the night and that was it for Buch. I bet they even got a better offer from an Eastern team.

See this doesn't help those of us who don't know what a constipated gerbil acts like.

Im gonna assume it's bad though

 

[leetch99]

Not fully buying this either.

Kakko played almost as much per game at even strength at Buchnevich. The way to get their minutes up is going to be finding ways to get those guys in special teams situations. Goodrow is gonna take close to pretty much all of Buch's PK and ES minutes on the third line. The only thing that opens up is room for one of the two to play with Zibanejad, and we don't even know how long he will be here.

As for the soft top 9? Sure. But it's a little ironic that Buchnevich was above average in our top 9 in the physicality department.

Maybe Buch mouthed off at the wrong people after he was chased around the ice by Mantha ? Maybe the club and him had some verbal jabs after that over the incident and his subsequent handling of it with the high stick incident to protect himself when he had no help on the ice from anybody .....it all came about because we were a soft club with soft coach and management duo along with a bunch of soft players albeit some were and are pretty young...but they seem kind of soft too....that still concerns me . I hope Gallant and Reaves can change the culture .

 

[aufheben]

Some of the shit you guys are putting on Gorton is ridiculous. Gorton was the one who brought in Lemieux, DeAngelo, and Trouba in the first place.

 

[Avery16]

delete

 

[jay from jersey]

Maybe Buch mouthed off at the wrong people after he was chased around the ice by Mantha ? Maybe the club and him had some verbal jabs after that over the incident and his subsequent handling of it with the high stick incident to protect himself when he had no help on the ice from anybody .....it all came about because we were a soft club with soft coach and management duo along with a bunch of soft players albeit some were and are pretty young...but they seem kind of soft too....that still concerns me . I hope Gallant and Reaves can change the culture .

odds are they were looking at a Cano-melky Cabrera situation with Buch-shesty.
Those 2 were spending tons of time together.
Before and after the car accident that kept our starting goalie out of the play ins. That would be my speculation.
Not to say they did anything terrible, but they didn’t like the influence. Very suspicious to me that there were never any details about it. Usually you would hear if someone was speeding, DUI, ran a light, etc
JD quickly addressed it and moved on to the kreider deal and then it was pretty much radio silence from there.
As far as the Gorts interview, pretty much what I expected. He gave up no inside info, side stepped the ADA situation and the letter with a little tap dance. It’s what I would expect, he’s going to be another GM somewhere in the near future I’m sure.
He also didn’t touch on Quinn, and what he thought worked vs didn’t, but again I wouldn’t expect him to let Diamond Dave hang out there taking shots either.
The interview was a lot of sizzle no substance, when they were moving to a harder line topic he’d give you a quick sentence with a little humor and it was on to the next. Gorts was answering liked a skilled politician

 

[Ola]

Problem with Gorton is that he wanted to “do things right” and was too afraid to give control to others. Quinn was a tool. Was he the best guy for the job? That is a joke. But he could be controlled. Would Gallant have done a better job than DQ? Without any doubt, but Gorton could never have controlled him. Hence DQ was our coach, not Gallant or someone like Gallant.

Same stuff with other positions in the organization. Clarke brought Gorton to NY. Gorton trusted Clarke 100%. Who else? Gorton didn’t let Drury hire a coach for HFD. It was talked about, Drury brought Gorton a candidate, it was nixed. And so forth. It was a one man show.

I have no problems with Gorton, but nobody is perfect. Gorton would have needed more push back when he had bad ideas. It’s like that.

This isn’t unique to managing a hockey team. You must learn to take risks. You hire a guy that can undermine you, if the probability on the upside makes it worth it. You take a punch to give up some on the comfort level, if bringing a guy or girl in that you might be a little uncomfortable with — can help you.

I am not saying that Gorton went Idi Amin on the front office, but lol, to a little extent he did. Anyone remember those interviews before JD was hired? Gorton was super uncomfortable, it was so obvious. Slats gave him free reigns. Gorton really really valued that. It wasn’t healthy — and it cost JG his job.

 

[jay from jersey]

I don't think trading him at the deadline was ever or should have been an option. Sends the wrong message in a playoff push.

I'm worried it's going to be a Carl Hagelin situation. The Rangers couldn't afford to sign Hagelin long-term at UFA prices so they traded him with one year left on his deal. The market wasn't what they were hoping for so they traded him for an underwhelming return (Emerson Etem and a trade up in the 2nd round). Then at the trade deadline, they found themselves in want of a top-9 forward and traded for Eric Staal at a price a hell of a lot more than they got for Hagelin.

The problem with that was we really had no one in the hole to replace hags. In this case, buchs minutes are going to a kid drafted 1 or 2 OVA. In theory, at this point in time, they should do well in that role with a better all around team.
They were dumb too, because even though hags would have been expensive as far as 3rd line players go, he was still worth the deal he signed.
At least now they are deeper and better supplied with cheaper talent and players to fill the role left by Buch.

 

[haohmaru]

re: Buchnevich. I was against trading him as he developed into a good/great two way forward and finally hit where most of us hoped he'd amount to. Tough to trade a guy that finally hit that ceiling that everyone was hoping for.

The return for him absolutely sucked. The problem is that was the best offer out there and other teams were also savvy as to what he'd command for a contract (and he did, right where we thought his arbitration would take him) which tempered offers given the flat cap. Honestly, I also think the Rangers were 1.) angling to be in a position to land a big fish if they could 2.) knew the writing was on the wall with a boatload of "top six" wingers 3.) would've been compromised next year when really facing the Zibanejad/Fox music. Part of the "business" but it sucks.

 

[jay from jersey]

re: Buchnevich. I was against trading him as he developed into a good/great two way forward and finally hit where most of us hoped he'd amount to. Tough to trade a guy that finally hit that ceiling that everyone was hoping for.

The return for him absolutely sucked. The problem is that was the best offer out there and other teams were also savvy as to what he'd command for a contract (and he did, right where we thought his arbitration would take him) which tempered offers given the flat cap. Honestly, I also think the Rangers were 1.) angling to be in a position to land a big fish if they could 2.) knew the writing was on the wall with a boatload of "top six" wingers 3.) would've been compromised next year when really facing the Zibanejad/Fox music. Part of the "business" but it sucks.

plus, Kakko, LaF,and Kravtsov need the ice time. These guys are going to have to start playing all situations minutes if you want them to develop. That’s how Buch got better. By playing

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I never fully believed them being fired was solely because of the Wilson incident. This organization has had so many issues the last 24 months, that this was simply the last straw.

Davidson didn't do what he was brought in to do. I always felt we had 2 captains steering the same ship, while on that ship fights broke out that neither tried to fix.Players bolted, criticized the way they were treated and ultimately it was just too much.

Agree with you 100% here. I know it was a rebuild but the last couple seasons had endless turmoil. The Wilson incident wasn’t the cause but it was the breaking point.

 

[broadwayblue]

JD and Gorton got fired because, as Gorton said, they talked a whole lot about getting tougher but did exactly the opposite. Say what you want about ADA, but he had that sand paper element. Fast, while not a tough guy, was a tough guy to play against along the boards and relentless on the puck. Lundqvist was a team leader that was tough on teammates about losing (and I know there are diverse opinions out there whether or not this was a positive thing). Brendan Lemieux out the door. Jack Johnson made the team worse and less hard to play against.

And, honestly, Dolan has a right to be pissed about contracts - ADA having to be bought out and he and his millions sitting in a house somewhere during the season and wasn't worth a bag of bird seed. Lundqvist bought out. Andersson taking his toys and going home. Inking Lemieux to a two year deal and off he goes. Shattenkirk, Girardi, ADA still on the books for this year.

They talked the talk but didn't walk the walk.

After they cleaned house why did ADA have to be bought out?