Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

[LokiDog]

Sabers wont void the contract. That requires both parties to agree. And the sabers cant risk losing him for absolutely no return.
I dont know the CBA well enough to answer but if Eichel ignores the sabers, and gets the surgery, can the sabers petition for eichel to be suspended indefinitely for the length of his contact? Because if the only recourse is to void his contract, that actually would be a win-win for eichel. Get the surgery (pay for it himself as well as the rehab) and then become a UFA and potentially make even more than the 10m per.

So this is my take. They can’t physically stop Eichel from getting the surgery. If he did, they could void his contract or suspend him without pay. Or they could live with it. There’s no way he could be suspended from the NHL for the entire length of the contract for choosing to get a surgery on his own body for an injury, and if they tried it I’m sure he’d fight it and win. Additionally, suspending him the length of the contract is the same as losing him for nothing. The only difference is Jack is older when he finally hits UFA, but Buffalo gains nothing besides “revenge” in that scenario.

As you said, they won’t void the contract. The organization cannot allow him to go for nothing. They also won’t suspend him for 5 years even if they could. Again they’d get nothing. Basically, I see no reason why Jack shouldn’t call their bluff and get the surgery. Dare them to void the contract. Look, I got the surgery. Go ahead, set me free. Buffalo can posture all they want but they won’t do it. If they do, Jack wins. If they don’t, Jack wins.

 

[Kocur Dill]

I thought I had a problem, sheesh.

It's not alcoholism.

It's a tasting, and it's classy.

 

[NYR Viper]

I keep seeing people say Jones can't play on a defensive unit with Lundkvist and Fox already here and I vehemently disagree. If we make the assumption that Jones proves he is ready by 2022-2023 and beats out Robertson and Schneider for that spot (which is possible), then at that point, Miller will have (2) full NHL seasons under his belt, along with Nils having a full season under his belt so a pairing of Miller-Lundkvist could very easily be a thing.

Lindgren-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Miller-Lundkvist

 

[cheech70]

I keep seeing people say Jones can't play on a defensive unit with Lundkvist and Fox already here and I vehemently disagree. If we make the assumption that Jones proves he is ready by 2022-2023 and beats out Robertson and Schneider for that spot (which is possible), then at that point, Miller will have (2) full NHL seasons under his belt, along with Nils having a full season under his belt so a pairing of Miller-Lundkvist could very easily be a thing.

Lindgren-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Miller-Lundkvist

the knock on Jones is he falls 3rd in the small defensemen pecking order..Fox,,Nils,,...and maybe go with 4 big defensemen which favor Schneider and Robertson.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I keep seeing people say Jones can't play on a defensive unit with Lundkvist and Fox already here and I vehemently disagree. If we make the assumption that Jones proves he is ready by 2022-2023 and beats out Robertson and Schneider for that spot (which is possible), then at that point, Miller will have (2) full NHL seasons under his belt, along with Nils having a full season under his belt so a pairing of Miller-Lundkvist could very easily be a thing.

Lindgren-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Miller-Lundkvist

That defense will get mauled.

 

[RangersFan1994]

I don't get why fans want to trade Jones, yes his value his high right now, but I don't sere why they can't keep Jones and Fox and as RD and try to use Lundkvist or Miller as trade bait. Miller would bring back more in a trade for a need although I can see a team overpaid for Miller more so than Jones and yes I would consider it. teams might since he was a 1st round pick not too long ago. RH are harder to find than LD in my opinion

 

[Fitzy]

I keep seeing people say Jones can't play on a defensive unit with Lundkvist and Fox already here and I vehemently disagree. If we make the assumption that Jones proves he is ready by 2022-2023 and beats out Robertson and Schneider for that spot (which is possible), then at that point, Miller will have (2) full NHL seasons under his belt, along with Nils having a full season under his belt so a pairing of Miller-Lundkvist could very easily be a thing.

Lindgren-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Miller-Lundkvist

It’s not that it can’t work, it’s that it’s highly unlikely. There aren’t many defensive groups in the NHL like that if any at all.

Plus Jones projects as a significant PP guy, and it’s unclear if there is a spot for him here in that role

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Still no news on prospect camp eh? Rempe is hangin with Robertson in NY, they seemed to be at Jones beach a couple days ago. Wonder whats taking so long with a roster announcement

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I keep seeing people say Jones can't play on a defensive unit with Lundkvist and Fox already here and I vehemently disagree. If we make the assumption that Jones proves he is ready by 2022-2023 and beats out Robertson and Schneider for that spot (which is possible), then at that point, Miller will have (2) full NHL seasons under his belt, along with Nils having a full season under his belt so a pairing of Miller-Lundkvist could very easily be a thing.

Lindgren-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Miller-Lundkvist

Best 6 should play within the context of executing the assigned roles. Jones would have to beat out Nemeth and a 1/2 dozen others, why not

 

[NYR Viper]

I am not saying that defense will be the long term group, but there is no need to trade someone right now. They have a couple of years and a lot of things can change over that time

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I keep seeing people say Jones can't play on a defensive unit with Lundkvist and Fox already here and I vehemently disagree. If we make the assumption that Jones proves he is ready by 2022-2023 and beats out Robertson and Schneider for that spot (which is possible), then at that point, Miller will have (2) full NHL seasons under his belt, along with Nils having a full season under his belt so a pairing of Miller-Lundkvist could very easily be a thing.

Lindgren-Fox
Jones-Trouba
Miller-Lundkvist

Yeah, I do not understand that reasoning at all. I disagree with the "You can only have 2 defensemen under 6 ft" stuff. Jones needing time in the AHL has nothing to do with his size to me. He still has some room for improvement and spending a few months to a year in Hartford isn't a bad thing at all.

This team can win a Cup with Fox, Jones and Lundkvist on the team assuming they are good enough. Size is a tie-breaker at best, not a defining factor otherwise McIlrath would have 4 Norris trophies by now.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yeah, I do not understand that reasoning at all. I disagree with the "You can only have 2 defensemen under 6 ft" stuff. Jones needing time in the AHL has nothing to do with his size to me. He still has some room for improvement and spending a few months to a year in Hartford isn't a bad thing at all.

This team can win a Cup with Fox, Jones and Lundkvist on the team assuming they are good enough. Size is a tie-breaker at best, not a defining factor otherwise McIlrath would have 4 Norris trophies by now.

Thats 3 guys under 6 foot, 4 guys under 200 lbs and not a very mobile group all together. I'd say that only Miller and Lindgren are above average skaters or better amongst the entire group.

That group isn't just short - they're short, light and not particularly mobile. You're not winning with a group like that in this league.

 

[duhmetreE]

Yeah, I do not understand that reasoning at all. I disagree with the "You can only have 2 defensemen under 6 ft" stuff. Jones needing time in the AHL has nothing to do with his size to me. He still has some room for improvement and spending a few months to a year in Hartford isn't a bad thing at all.

This team can win a Cup with Fox, Jones and Lundkvist on the team assuming they are good enough. Size is a tie-breaker at best, not a defining factor otherwise McIlrath would have 4 Norris trophies by now.

if we got lucky with matchups. Regular season would be fine. Playoffs success... I'd have major doubts.

There's an inherent advantage of being bigger. When the play becomes physical, perfect example is this past playoffs, smaller guys have the propensity to break down/get hurt.

 

[LokiDog]

Thats 3 guys under 6 foot, 4 guys under 200 lbs and not a very mobile group all together. I'd say that only Miller and Lindgren are above average skaters or better amongst the entire group.

That group isn't just short - they're short, light and not particularly mobile. You're not winning with a group like that in this league.

To say Fox isn't mobile is pretty disingenuous. He's not super fast. He's a terrific skater. His speed is good, just not a world beater. His edges and acceleration are both great. Mobility isn't just straight line speed. To that end, I feel Lundkvist is "mobile" as well.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

if we got lucky with matchups. Regular season would be fine. Playoffs success... I'd have major doubts.

There's an inherent advantage of being bigger. When the play becomes physical, perfect example is this past playoffs, smaller guys have the propensity to break down/get hurt.

There's only an advantage in being bigger if you can actually defend at that level. We've had big guys get hurt too.

The only reason a team hasn't won a Cup with 3 players at 5'11" yet is because it hasn't been tried. Similarly to no team winning a Cup with 4 Russians prior to 1994. Doesn't mean it can't be done.

Correlation does not imply causation. Go with your best players, not the ones who can reach the top shelves but can't skate.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

Yeah, Drury has gone around telling agents that he is surprised that there is so much talk about NYR and Eichel since we never really been interested in him.

This sounds like misconstrued wishful thinking.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

To say Fox isn't mobile is pretty disingenuous. He's not super fast. He's a terrific skater. His speed is good, just not a world beater. His edges and acceleration are both great. Mobility isn't just straight line speed. To that end, I feel Lundkvist is "mobile" as well.

He's shifty-ish, but Fox makes decisions so quickly that he could move like me and be mostly okay when he isn't defending the rush (if he moved like me he'd be toast.) Fox isn't great because he's able to skate around people, he's great because he rarely puts himself in a bad position to get tied up in his own end and makes the right play 99.9% of the time. Neither Nils or Jones possess such wizardry.

Nils moves like Pionk and that scares me.

 

[LokiDog]

He's shifty-ish, but Fox makes decisions so quickly that he could move like me and be mostly okay when he isn't defending the rush (if he moved like me he'd be toast.) Fox isn't great because he's able to skate around people, he's great because he rarely puts himself in a bad position to get tied up in his own end and makes the right play 99.9% of the time. Neither Nils or Jones possess such wizardry.

Nils moves like Pionk and that scares me.

I agree that it's his intelligence that sets him apart, but I don't agree that his skating is not above average. Only his speed is lacking. His scouting report from his draft year read:

Adam Fox is an undersized defenceman, but an elite offensive producer. He has elite skating ability, moving around the ice with good speed and acceleration. He can lead or join the rush; or pinch at the blue line and still get back to defend his own zone as well. Fox has very good agility, and edge work. He can weave in and out of traffic while rushing the puck up the ice, and use quick cuts to avoid opponents, be they fore checkers trying to pin him in his own end, or defenders against the rush. Fox could stand to add muscle as he needs to improve his balance and get stronger on the puck...Adam Fox uses his quick feet to keep attackers in front of him off the rush. He has good backwards skating and a quick stick and is tough to beat one-on-one.

It's just one write up, but I would tend to agree with it. He isn't slow, he's just not significantly speedy, but everything else about his skating is very high end, including his edges, agility and first steps. Part of what enables him to make the decisions and process things so quickly is being able to move effortlessly while doing so. I'd never argue Fox is a speedster, but I'd have a very hard time saying he isn't a mobile defenseman.

 

[KOVALEV022473]

So this is my take. They can’t physically stop Eichel from getting the surgery. If he did, they could void his contract or suspend him without pay. Or they could live with it. There’s no way he could be suspended from the NHL for the entire length of the contract for choosing to get a surgery on his own body for an injury, and if they tried it I’m sure he’d fight it and win. Additionally, suspending him the length of the contract is the same as losing him for nothing. The only difference is Jack is older when he finally hits UFA, but Buffalo gains nothing besides “revenge” in that scenario.

As you said, they won’t void the contract. The organization cannot allow him to go for nothing. They also won’t suspend him for 5 years even if they could. Again they’d get nothing. Basically, I see no reason why Jack shouldn’t call their bluff and get the surgery. Dare them to void the contract. Look, I got the surgery. Go ahead, set me free. Buffalo can posture all they want but they won’t do it. If they do, Jack wins. If they don’t, Jack wins.

I was under the impression that the reluctance to allow Jack to get that particular surgery, is that insurance will not cover the rest of the contract because the surgery is not currently seen as “Routine”, so the contract becomes uninsurable and the acquiring team will be on the hook for the remainder of the contract if Jack can never play hockey again. I think.

 

[MetalJaws]

I havent had the Offerman Edition, but im keeping my eyes open.

I have a bottle of Ardbegs Uigeadail and its damn good!

Due to costs though, ive been mostly a bourbon guy though. Scotch can get pretty pricey, pretty easily.

Slightly overpriced but Perpetuum an Scorch are unreal!

 

[duhmetreE]

There's only an advantage in being bigger if you can actually defend at that level. We've had big guys get hurt too.

The only reason a team hasn't won a Cup with 3 players at 5'11" yet is because it hasn't been tried. Similarly to no team winning a Cup with 4 Russians prior to 1994. Doesn't mean it can't be done.

Correlation does not imply causation. Go with your best players, not the ones who can reach the top shelves but can't skate.

You put yourself at an inherent disadvantage. It doesn't mean it can't be done.

You don't want small or undersized Offensive-Linemen. Being bigger is almost a requirement to find success. It's not one or the other. It's the quest to find BIG and GOOD.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You put yourself at an inherent disadvantage. It doesn't mean it can't be done.

Brayden McNabb is at an inherent disadvantage every game because he can't skate to keep up with the smaller, quicker forwards in the league today. Nobody ever complains about that.

If you can defend, you're good enough. Trouba is getting paid 8m because he's a good defenseman, not because he's taller than others. Like I said: Size is, at most, a tie-breaker.

 

[duhmetreE]

Brayden McNabb is at an inherent disadvantage every game because he can't skate to keep up with the smaller, quicker forwards in the league today. Nobody ever complains about that.

If you can defend, you're good enough. Trouba is getting paid 8m because he's a good defenseman, not because he's taller than others. Like I said: Size is, at most, a tie-breaker.

That's a false dichotomy. There aren't only 2 types of defenders.

I'm talking about Schneider, KAM and Robertson types.

 

[haveandare]

I don't get why fans want to trade Jones, yes his value his high right now, but I don't sere why they can't keep Jones and Fox and as RD and try to use Lundkvist or Miller as trade bait. Miller would bring back more in a trade for a need although I can see a team overpaid for Miller more so than Jones and yes I would consider it. teams might since he was a 1st round pick not too long ago. RH are harder to find than LD in my opinion

Imo because Nils projects to be a better player in a similar-ish mould. And because Miller at the start of last season was one of the best rookie I’ve ever seen in terms of stick work and actual defense. He definitely fell off as the season went on, but if he’s capable of that kind of performance long term as he grows and learns more, he’s the last one to move

 

[Chytilmania]

There’s A LOT of nuances, but it’s a keeper league and the guy only has 1 year left of Panarin. So Ehlers (has 4 years of keeper potential) and a 2nd round pick. The only thing is I can reset a two keepers because I own first and second overall. So I can have him for 4 years.

Does your league award points for helping grandparents defect?