Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
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Because I'm talking about the penalty kill, where two centers very often play together.
Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII
- Thread starter Krams
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Because I'm talking about the penalty kill, where two centers very often play together.
pld459666
Registered User
For all the criticism Strome gets, he does a decent job. But I would much rather him being a 2nd line winger or a 3C than a 2C. And I think Chytil, who still hasn't fully developed, is undervalued for his complete game. He's probably at this point our most complete center, which is why I don't want to see him relegated to the third line forever. The only area where he really needs work is on faceoffs. And while he's definitely more suited to an offensive game, his defensive ability has really become apparent the last season. I actually think Strome's presence and lack of faceoff ability are the only things holding Chytil back from being a very, very good 2C.
And while I love Zibanijad, I don't think he's the ideal 1st line center for this team. We will have to wait and see how Gallant handles things. But I am really in favor of playing a 2nd line of Panarin - Chytil - Strome. A lot of people suggest this line won't be good enough defensively, but I don't agree. I think with how Chytil has improved defensively, he can actually add a lot to a line like that. Meanwhile Strome would handle faceoffs a lot of the time. And if Chytil does improve with faceoffs, eventually we can put a more traditional RW on the line like Kravtsov. Also, Panarin has in the past played exceptionally well with both Strome and Chytil when given the opportunity, so I think they would have chemistry. It's a shame if the rumors are true that Panarin doesn't want to play with Kakko. That actually makes me like Panarin a lot less, as I think something like that should be a coach's decision and not a players decision. And if a coach decides to say make a line of Panarin - Strome - Kakko, which could probably be a legit awesome line, it's up to the players to MAKE it work. And if Panarin isn't interested in making it work, then I would not be so interested in re-signing him when his contract is up. As good as he is. Players need to follow what the coaches want and I hope Gallant doesn't put up with any player nonsense. If those rumors are true, then we would never actually know how good a line of Panarin - Strome - Kakko would be, if Panarin isn't consciously trying to make it work. There would always be that little bit of doubt that he's some how causing the line to fail just because it's not his preference. But that's just speculation, I am really not sure how true those rumors are.
HFsNumber1Heel
FKA Roo Returns...Still A Contrarian Apparently
I don't think the top nine should be viewed as solely a Buchnevich for Goodrow swap. The overall product will differ because all of those guys will have different roles.
It's about the time and "job responsibilities" of Buch and Blackwell being split by Kaako/Laf/Kravstov, and the bottom six and PK being split by Goodrow, Blais, Reaves, etc.
It's about the time and "job responsibilities" of Buch and Blackwell being split by Kaako/Laf/Kravstov, and the bottom six and PK being split by Goodrow, Blais, Reaves, etc.
Aside from the fact that I think he was talking about the PK, I have to disagree about Chytil.
Chytil is our most complete center. His only weak area right now is faceoffs and he wouldn't be the first center to need improvement in that area. Elias Pettersson has needed JT Miller for faceoffs, Wheeler has made a career out of being a faceoff winger and someone like Kuznetsov, who is a very good center, has for some reason never gotten the knack for faceoffs.
I've said this like 20 times I think. But I'll do it again. Chytil was net positive both offense and defense last season. He was our best 5x5/even strength center per ATOI. And he was one of the top 50 players in the NHL at even strength per 60. I understand that he was not always facing the opposing team's top players. But I don't think if you played Ziban or Strome where Chytil played last season, that they would necessarily match him defensively. His defense has improved dramatically and I and many think he's ready for a bigger role. If faceoffs are the only thing holding him back, when we have a guy like Strome who can take faceoffs and might actually be better at RW than center, I see no reason not to utilize them both if that's what works best. Obviously, I am just speculating that would work best because we don't know. But it's worth trying in preseason if nothing else. Panarin has shown he has chemistry with Strome, and he's been great with Chytil whenever they've had the opportunity to play together. I also think Chytil is now good enough defensively to give that line a bit of defensive presence they wouldn't otherwise have. If Goodrow wasn't so offensively void, I would say try Panarin-Chytil-Goodrow and use Strome as 3C. But as much as Goodrow would add to that line defensively and on faceoffs, he might detract from them offensively. The only question then would be is Goodrow the right player to play 3C? And I am not sure he is. We might need someone else to step up or to acquire someone else to fill that role if Strome was moved to play RW next to Chytil. But that's a separate issue.
That, even more so if rumors are true and Panarin doesn't want to play with a guy like Kakko, whom I think would make an awesome line with Panarin-Strome-Kakko. And if that is the case, the coach really needs to put his foot down or something. I love Panarin, he's great. But he shouldn't dictate the lines, that should be the coaches job. And if he is putting up a stink, we will never know if he's actually trying to make it work with a guy like Kakko as opposed to being self destructive to serve his own preferences. In which case, I am not sure we really should retain Panarin when his contract is up. But that's just speculation at this point as I don't really know how true those rumors are of him not wanting to play with Kakko .
And I agree, Chytil needs to be putting in like 3-4 hours a day practicing faceoffs if that's what it will take. But he's not going to suddenly get better just taking faceoffs in games if he's not there yet. That would just be a self-defeating way to go about things. You want him to practice faceoffs outside of actual games as much as possible. But until he's ready there is absolutely nothing wrong with pairing him with a faceoff winger, like Strome is so well suited to be. And I think you might be underselling Chytils actual potential and value. He's still just like 21 years old. He's obviously not Gretzky or anything. But who is? There's like MAYBE 3-4 centers per generation at the elite level. Right now probably McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon and.... I am not really sure who follows them, but it's definitely NOT Eichel lol. Would be a toss up between like Aho, Point, Scheifle and a few others. Last generation, it was probably Crosby, Kopitar and I guess Bergeron and Toews, unless I am glossing over someone lol. Chytil doesn't even need to be on that level to still be a terrific center and to provide what we need. We don't necessarily need a 90 point scoring center if guys like Laf, Kakko, Kravtsov reach their potential and we still have Panarin. But if Chytil continues on his yearly progress, the way he has, he's going to be a top 15 complete center within a few years. Barring he improves with faceoffs. And if he doesn't improve in faceoffs enough, I think we are looking at a player sort of similar to Kuznetsov, but perhaps with a slightly lower offensive ceiling. But perhaps a bit better defensively.
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there are other aspects to playing the position than taking face offs.
this argument is dumb. He’s played center basically every second he’s been a pro in NA. He’s improved with each season.
- Jan 18, 2012
- 35,355
- 54,081
To NYR:
Eichel ( assuming his head is still attached )
To VGK
Mika ( waives his NMC to pursue his DJ career )
To BUF
Krebs
Jones
Georgiev
NYR + VGK picks
yay or nay?
Eichel ( assuming his head is still attached )
To VGK
Mika ( waives his NMC to pursue his DJ career )
To BUF
Krebs
Jones
Georgiev
NYR + VGK picks
yay or nay?
Do you want ants
Thats how u get ants
- Jul 2, 2015
- 1,476
- 1,253
Nay. We’re going to add a 1st, Jones and Georgie on top of Mika for Echiel? Meanwhile Vegas is just giving up Krebs?
- Jan 18, 2012
- 35,355
- 54,081
Do you want ants
Thats how u get ants
- Jul 2, 2015
- 1,476
- 1,253
Mika and Krebs aren’t equal in my mind.
Responded before you changed NYR 1st to picks from both (edit).
Chalfdiggity3
Registered User
I would hate that and is horrible asset management. Strome has no place on this team long term and we should be capitalizing on moving players like that. Even if its to move him in order to gain other pieces that would be required to trade for someone like Larkin at the TDL
Chalfdiggity3
Registered User
Also lets not forget that Larkin would need to want to stay in Detriot. He is about to enter his prime and do we all really believe that he is going to sit through that long rebuild?
- Jan 18, 2012
- 35,355
- 54,081
bleedblue94
Registered User
- Jun 8, 2004
- 10,066
- 11,245
Word is he has the money to do it but he knows the situation is arz and is just going to wait it out until he gets the sweetheart deal he wants much like the jets compared to expansion costs.
Yeah, this is the X factor for me for sure. Why would Yzerman not keep him otherwise? If Larkin played for someone else and was about to be traded, I think Yzerman would be first in line. Like he got Filpulla and Cally to Tampa.
But Holland’s picks in Detroit are not coming through at all. Zadina, Rasmussen and co. They could be ways off unless things really start to fall into place for them.
But their prospect pool are starting to fill up really fast lately…
I wish. Vegas isn't trading 6 years of control of Krebs for 1 year of Mika. I would just do one for one with Vegas.
It's him. Check his Wikipedia page. Pretty impressive.
Only thing I didn't see is that he owns (perhaps owned) one IHOP in Houston.
- Nov 2, 2011
- 7,967
- 8,335
The best example I can think of is from baseball actually.
The New York Mets drafted JT Ginn in the 2nd round, 52nd overall, of the 2020 draft. He was a very highly touted pitcher who was drafted 30th overall by the Dodgers in 2018 but they failed to reach a signing agreement. The Mets had to pay him $2.9 million, which was a pretty large overslot payment in order to sign him (but was expected). They sacrificed a lot of their remaining draft slot money in order to get that signing done. At the time of the draft it was known that he would need Tommy John surgery. He was drafted, then signed to large money, and then had the surgery and began recovery. He is currently the Mets 5th best prospect in their system, 2nd best pitching prospect, and projects to be a reliable middle to back end MLB starter with upside. Good value overall.
Conversely, this year was very controversial in the MLB draft because Kumar Rocker was highly touted as a prospect coming into the year but was not as good this year as he had been previously. His velocity was down, some control issues, and he had to pitch a lot at Vanderbilt. Rocker was potentially going to be the #1 overall pick before this year. By the time the draft came there was wonder whether he would even be selected in the Top 4. Each draft pick has a slot value, hence the overslot and underslot terms for signing amounts. A team must offer the draft player at least their slot value in order to receive compensation if the player does not sign. If a team offers a player their slot value or more and they do not sign then the team gets a compensation that is in the same spot plus one in the following draft next year. However, this condition of needing to offer a player at least their slot value does not apply if the player declines medical evaluations prior to the draft. Kumar Rocker and his agent Scott Boras decided it was best to decline the MRI and medical exams prior to the draft. Teams knew something was wrong.
Rocker was passed on by all teams in the Top 9 and fell to the Mets at 10. The Mets selected Rocker. No details have been released, but they could not come to an agreement on terms. Rumors are that the Mets did not even end up offering slot value to him. The Mets and Rocker/Boras never reached an agreement and now the Mets get the 11th overall pick next year as compensation because Rocker declined the pre-draft medical evaluation. Rocker has since announced he is foregoing his senior year at Vanderbilt. The Mets clearly were willing to take a strong pitching prospect, JT Ginn, just 1 year prior who was known to need major surgery on his arm. Granted, the surgery that JT Ginn was known to need was the well known and established surgery of Tommy John surgery. The speculation and rumor is that Rocker needs something more than simple Tommy John surgery. Something more complicated and concerning.
Up front with your medicals, known surgery, get paid. Hide medicals, speculation, get shoved aside.
Buffalo botched this once the draft passed by them. Then tried to panic leading up to free agency opening. Now it is just the blind leading the blind.
NYSPORTS
back afta dis. . .
- Jun 17, 2019
- 7,993
- 4,459
If McCrimmon isn’t giving up Krebs for Eichel, no way we get him for Zibby at this point. Talks about him like he’s their golden goose. And with trading glass and particularly Suzuki I don’t think they make that same mistake again
Dr. Ogrodnick
Registered User
- Jan 10, 2007
- 3,848
- 1,876
2019-20:
Leon Draisaitl (C/W) Edmonton Oilers 71 43 67 110 1.55 18 -7
Connor McDavid (C) Edmonton Oilers 64 34 63 97 1.52 28 -6
Artemi Panarin (LW) New York Rangers 69 32 63 95 1.38 20 36
David Pastrnak (RW) Boston Bruins 70 48 47 95 1.36 40 21
Nathan MacKinnon (C/RW) Colorado Avalanche 69 35 58 93 1.35 12 13
Yevgeni Malkin (C) Pittsburgh Penguins 55 25 49 74 1.35 58 7
Mika Zibanejad (C) New York Rangers 57 41 34 75 1.32 14 9
Nikita Kucherov (RW) Tampa Bay Lightning 68 33 52 85 1.25 38 26
Brad Marchand (LW) Boston Bruins 70 28 59 87 1.24 82 25
Patrick Kane (RW) Chicago Blackhawks 70 33 51 84 1.20 40 8
Steven Stamkos (C/W) Tampa Bay Lightning 57 29 37 66 1.16 22 14
Jack Eichel (C) Buffalo Sabres 68 36 42 78 1.15 34 5
Sidney Crosby (C) Pittsburgh Penguins 41 16 31 47 1.15 15 -8
Auston Matthews (C) Toronto Maple Leafs 70 47 33 80 1.14 8 19
Mitchell Marner (RW) Toronto Maple Leafs 59 16 51 67 1.14 16 6
Jonathan Huberdeau (LW) Florida Panthers 69 23 55 78 1.13 30 5
Jake Guentzel (W/C) Pittsburgh Penguins 39 20 23 43 1.10 14 11
J.T. Miller (C/W) Vancouver Canucks 69 27 45 72 1.04 47 11
Kyle Connor (LW) Winnipeg Jets 71 38 35 73 1.03 34 4
Mark Scheifele (C) Winnipeg Jets 71 29 44 73 1.03 45 2
Bryan Rust (RW/LW) Pittsburgh Penguins 55 27 29 56 1.02 30 14
Vladimir Tarasenko (RW) St. Louis Blues 10 3 7 10 1.00 0 -2
Alexander Ovechkin (LW) Washington Capitals 68 48 19 67 0.99 30 -12
Leon Draisaitl (C/W) Edmonton Oilers 71 43 67 110 1.55 18 -7
Connor McDavid (C) Edmonton Oilers 64 34 63 97 1.52 28 -6
Artemi Panarin (LW) New York Rangers 69 32 63 95 1.38 20 36
David Pastrnak (RW) Boston Bruins 70 48 47 95 1.36 40 21
Nathan MacKinnon (C/RW) Colorado Avalanche 69 35 58 93 1.35 12 13
Yevgeni Malkin (C) Pittsburgh Penguins 55 25 49 74 1.35 58 7
Mika Zibanejad (C) New York Rangers 57 41 34 75 1.32 14 9
Nikita Kucherov (RW) Tampa Bay Lightning 68 33 52 85 1.25 38 26
Brad Marchand (LW) Boston Bruins 70 28 59 87 1.24 82 25
Patrick Kane (RW) Chicago Blackhawks 70 33 51 84 1.20 40 8
Steven Stamkos (C/W) Tampa Bay Lightning 57 29 37 66 1.16 22 14
Jack Eichel (C) Buffalo Sabres 68 36 42 78 1.15 34 5
Sidney Crosby (C) Pittsburgh Penguins 41 16 31 47 1.15 15 -8
Auston Matthews (C) Toronto Maple Leafs 70 47 33 80 1.14 8 19
Mitchell Marner (RW) Toronto Maple Leafs 59 16 51 67 1.14 16 6
Jonathan Huberdeau (LW) Florida Panthers 69 23 55 78 1.13 30 5
Jake Guentzel (W/C) Pittsburgh Penguins 39 20 23 43 1.10 14 11
J.T. Miller (C/W) Vancouver Canucks 69 27 45 72 1.04 47 11
Kyle Connor (LW) Winnipeg Jets 71 38 35 73 1.03 34 4
Mark Scheifele (C) Winnipeg Jets 71 29 44 73 1.03 45 2
Bryan Rust (RW/LW) Pittsburgh Penguins 55 27 29 56 1.02 30 14
Vladimir Tarasenko (RW) St. Louis Blues 10 3 7 10 1.00 0 -2
Alexander Ovechkin (LW) Washington Capitals 68 48 19 67 0.99 30 -12
- Status
