Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

[duhmetreE]

I feel like we have the skill more of less covered at this point. I also think some of the guys we've brought in are probably under rated in that regard as well. In not too worried about going the other way unless we make some interesting changes.

I think there remains an interest in a center. Just probably not quite one in this mold or in that price point. You might be looking at more of a short term option that can shift as needed.

I'd be real hesitant going into this season with our center position as 'up in the air' as it is. I understand it's a fluid situation but things can get ugly real fast. Unless they are extremely confident in Chytil and/or they are confident in someone like Barron or Kravtsov sticking in the middle.

We have skill and offense. We do not have the 2way speed required down the middle imo. That's what needs to be addressed.. for the now and the future. Whether it's Strome and/or Mika being 'upgraded', in that regard, for the top9.

The entire Center position could be turned upside down in a years time, with none of the current names on next years roster. That type of uncertainty is not conducive to success

 

[duhmetreE]

I think the skill is there provided Kakko and Lafreniere advance the way that they should.

The big questions for me if the roster stays the way it is are

1) Chytil-Strome situation
2) PK forwards

If Drury is big into players with 'clearly defined roles,' I imagine we are going to see somewhat fewer players involved heavily both on the PP and PK. Howden, Buchnevich, Blackwell were both PK stalwarts who are gone, forwards 2, 3, and 7 in PK minutes per game. You'd like to see Zibby less leaned on here.


Blais hasn't killed penalties yet. Hunt has not killed penalties for any club. Neither does Reaves. Thats three bottom 6 forwards with zero PK experience. You need 3 PK forward pairings, and a 7th for when one of the aforementioned six is in the box. Barron may start the year in Hartford, meaning that Zibanejad, Rooney, and Strome will be the only returning Rangers with extensive PK experience.

Rooney-Goodrow
Zibanejad-(Chytil?)
Strome-(Kakko?)
Kreider

I'd like to see Chytil and Kakko learn the penalty kill. It'll be an easy way to increase their roles, since neither is likely to see time on the PP1. On the other hand, if Hunt and Blais are in the lineup, playing them only 8-10 minutes a game is going to be less popular with people and coaches who want to distribute minutes more evenly.

Lindgren-Fox, Nemeth-Trouba the defensive pairings.

If your lineup ends up

Laf-Zib-Kravtov
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Kreider-Chytil-Goodrow(Draws)
Hunt-Rooney-Blais
Reaves

That fourth line is going to have a mandate to go out there and be tough to play against. Shades of Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer

Chytil, Kakko and Kravtsov could all benefit from PK time since they will 99.99999 be left out of PP1.

If Gallant puts Strome on the right wall over Lafreniere, I may cry.

 

[effen]

If Gallant puts Strome on the right wall over Lafreniere, I may cry.

I would too, that Lafreniere couldn't even beat out Ryan Strome.

 

[Fitzy]

Chytil, Kakko and Kravtsov could all benefit from PK time since they will 99.99999 be left out of PP1.

If Gallant puts Strome on the right wall over Lafreniere, I may cry.

For sure. I also think Chytil should be paired with another center so he doesn't have to take those D zone draws.

I'm also a big advocate of starting one of Barron/Richards, while using Hunt and Reaves as depth options when there are injuries or the lineup needs a tweak. Plenty of cap space to hold 14 forwards and 7 d.

 

[duhmetreE]

For sure. I also think Chytil should be paired with another center so he doesn't have to take those D zone draws.

I'm also a big advocate of starting one of Barron/Richards, while using Hunt and Reaves as depth options when there are injuries or the lineup needs a tweak. Plenty of cap space to hold 14 forwards and 7 d.

I really do like Kreider Chytil Goodrow line. ( stylistically could be the Coleman Gourde Goodrow line ) Goodrow Chytil on the PK.

If Chytil can stick to Goodrow and learn to play with that 'style'. He would be extremely effective at it.

 

[Fitzy]

I would too, that Lafreniere couldn't even beat out Ryan Strome.

Well, these choices aren't always meritocratic like they should be.

 

[duhmetreE]

I would too, that Lafreniere couldn't even beat out Ryan Strome.

 

[howztheglass]

Houston is the next western market. Top 10 population in the US. Big TV market. Quebec is the standby in the west. KC is probably next in line in the west.

Bettman needs a city ready and willing to threaten current NHL cities during arena negotiations. Houston was the alternative for Calgary. Quebec was alluded to when the Isles kept hitting snags. Bettman will keep at least one city in the west and east each which will prevent a conference imbalance.

Wasn't Houston and KC finalist with Seattle ? I thought those were the proposed cities for expansion at one time. Makes total sense that those cities would be placed in the west. Quebec in the east.

Once Seattle takes off I could see the NHL wanting to expend again maybe within 2-3 years added 2 teams to combat the loses of COVID. The players will agree because it means more jobs and the owners well more coin with bring in additional teams. Even if Arz does have to move again ( really sucks for that franchise ) it still leaves open the door for 2 additional locations.

 

[tomobson]

Im really excited about this season. There’s a lot to look fwd to tbh. Some guys are on the cusp of breaking out and becoming real difference makers. Not gonna lie though, I will be a little bummed if this is the final roster coming out of camp and they don’t to anything to address/change the dynamic at center from last season to this one.
I wouldn’t have Goodrow center the 3rd line either. I’d keep him where he’s been most successful and let him do his thing.
As it stands now from an outsiders perspective, they are worried to let chytil run with the ball for 2C minutes. Otherwise strome would be gone already. And they don’t want to cut strome loose yet because of the worry over chytil.
I just don’t see any situation where they commit to strome long term, and trading a top 6 player mid season while they are probably going to be fighting for a playoff spot isn’t likely or smart. Self renting him wouldn’t be the greatest asset management, but more so it contributes to the log jam of players and prevents some of the kids opportunities.
I’m sure he’s a nice guy and is well liked by some of his team mates, don’t want a contract ext looming and all that comes with that going on all season.

I think the reason that Strome hasn't been traded yet is that his value is even worse than Buch's. If ppl think the Buch trade was bad...a Strome trade is probably going to look a lot worse. I feel Drury is waiting to at least get something decent out of a Strome trade and it has nothing to do with Chytil at 2c.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Houston would be a lock. Great building and potential owner with deep pockets standing by.

And probably the only market Bettman & Co would approve for relocation.

 

[Fitzy]

The NHL shouldn't stay in cities where teams have to offer all you can eat concession tickets for 40 bucks to get to half capacity.

Syracuse Crunch tickets often cost more than Arizona/Ottawa tickets do. That's not ideal.

 

[jay from jersey]

I think the reason that Strome hasn't been traded yet is that his value is even worse than Buch's. If ppl think the Buch trade was bad...a Strome trade is probably going to look a lot worse. I feel Drury is waiting to at least get something decent out of a Strome trade and it has nothing to do with Chytil at 2c.

I think centers always bring back a bit more then wingers. I’m under no illusions he’s going to bring back a 1st, but it shouldn’t be a problem to get a 2nd or 2nd plus bottom 6 prospect. Next years draft is better as well.
As far as the market goes, finding a guy that plays wing, even both wings is fairly easy. The market on middle 6 centers that can put up points with talent is a much rarer commodity.
His contract status is also a big factor.
There’s certainly a market for high end premium wingers as well, especially around playoff time, but their age and contract status also has a lot to do with their value. Wingers and centers on ELC deals are rarely traded, if ever.

 

[NYR Viper]

For sure. I also think Chytil should be paired with another center so he doesn't have to take those D zone draws.

I'm also a big advocate of starting one of Barron/Richards, while using Hunt and Reaves as depth options when there are injuries or the lineup needs a tweak. Plenty of cap space to hold 14 forwards and 7 d.

I think I may be one of the few people here who would actually prefer to see Barron play in the AHL for half a season more minimum at center full time. Having him grab that 3C spot would be huge for this team.

Signing Goodrow allows Drury the option of trading Strome now and letting Chytil play more minutes while waiting for Barron to develop.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I hear ya, but our look in the middle hasn’t really changed, and it’s by far our weakest link, especially in this division.
I highly doubt strome is in this teams long range plans, and I’m sure he’ll put up solid numbers with Panarin and especially on the PP.
That’s exactly what I’m trying to avoid, because then the temptation is there to do something dumb.
I also don’t want resign/Trade strome to be a major story as were fighting for a playoff spot. We’re gona hear the whole spiel of how great a team mate and player he is and blah blah blah.
It’s like the kreider situation all over again.
In my head I’m doing a positives and negatives situation for the rangers keeping him this season: and at least to me, the negatives far out weigh the positives.
Chemistry with Panarin is his biggest selling point, but the consequences of having him on the roster all year are far more glaring to me. And really, it’s not that I hate strome, I’m happy for him, he’s played well for us and turned around his career around. But imo it’s time to cash in and trade him.

I feel our center position is fine as a team, we've had more glaring holes on this team that have affected the play of the centers we have. I think its hard to objectively critique a position when the team is not complete. For example, our breakout, basically last year we had 3 dmen that could competently break the puck out, so half of the d on the ice. A big complaint about our centers is that they leave the zone too early, i tend to disagree with that, I think they are leaving when they should be but between our D and youth at wing the puck wasn't coming out cleanly and they had to circle back. Fix the breakout and you solve a lot of issues regarding the perception that the centers are leaving too early. The other issue is youth and inexperience at wing, if the wingers are out of position the centers end up out of position. I think Kakko really came forward in that regard last year, i expect Lafreniere to this year and i was impressed with Kravtsov in that regard. Panarin is never gonna be a defensive forward, whoever is on his wing is gonna be between their position and his imo. My complaint with the centers we have is faceoffs, some disagree with their value but i don't look at percentages i look at situational faceoffs, do they win important draws in our end and the offensive end, I think they need to be better.

 

[Fitzy]

I think I may be one of the few people here who would actually prefer to see Barron play in the AHL for half a season more minimum at center full time. Having him grab that 3C spot would be huge for this team.

Signing Goodrow allows Drury the option of trading Strome now and letting Chytil play more minutes while waiting for Barron to develop.

Yeah, but I think if Strome was going to be dealt it would have happened by now.

He's valuable to the team this season, and our playoff efforts.

I'm game with letting Barron learn center in Hartford, since he's waiver exempt this year (Is Tarmo?) but I wouldn't get rid of Strome just for the sake of getting rid of Strome. He should be relegated to PP2, but that's all for me.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I honestly think Strome is our own rental this year. I think what he returns in a trade isn't enough to bother moving him and the cap savings is likely enough for management to say they got something out of keeping him past the deadline. All that is dependent on Chytil taking a step.

 

[RangerBoy]

This is the first thing I thought of when I saw Ryan Martin was the hire. Drury didn't hire Martin solely for that reason, but where there's smoke...

Chris Drury also knows Larkin from 2019 World Championship team. Drury was the GM of that team. Will the Red Wings re-sign Larkin? Yzerman will look to move him sometime in the next year or so if the Red Wings and Larkin can't make a deal. I read Larkin is skating again after having surgery at the end of last season. Martin would know if Larkin is part of the Red Wings long term plan.

 

[RangerBoy]

What is going to happen with Eichel? Not that I want the Rangers to acquire him but I am interested in how this situation ends. Every day off of the calendar is one less day for Eichel to have the surgery and be ready to play. Has there ever been a player who needed to have surgery right after having been traded or the team knows he needs surgery? Can anyone think of a player? The acquiring team will need to wait for Eichel to get healthy before he can play for them. The surgery options are ADR or spinal fusion. The ADR has a 2-3 month recovery period. He returns to the ice in 6 weeks if everything works out. Full contact 2-3 months after the surgery. When will Eichel be ready to play? It could be longer than 3 months. The spinal fusion is a longer process. The entire situation is insane. The Sabres owe Eichel a $7.5M signing bonus next July. The same Sabres organization which traded Ryan O'Reilly for not much because ROR had an $8M signing bonus due and the Sabres didn't want to pay it.

A team is supposed to trade major assets for Eichel and then not have the player on the ice for 1/2 or more than 1/2 of the regular season.

 

[Bruner4329]

For sure. I also think Chytil should be paired with another center so he doesn't have to take those D zone draws.

I'm also a big advocate of starting one of Barron/Richards, while using Hunt and Reaves as depth options when there are injuries or the lineup needs a tweak. Plenty of cap space to hold 14 forwards and 7 d.

First of all how is the guy ever going to improve if he does not work on faceoffs unless center is not his position in the long haul. More importantly you are proposing to cover his weakness by playing him with another center which may not be in the best interests of the team and line combos. I don't get it. This guy is not Gretsky nor anything remotely close and yet people are willing to propose anything to keep him at center. IMO he either does what he needs to do as a center or they move him to the wing.

 

[Avery16]

Send the Wings back west.

I asked and the west said thanks but no thanks.

 

[Bruner4329]

I feel our center position is fine as a team, we've had more glaring holes on this team that have affected the play of the centers we have. I think its hard to objectively critique a position when the team is not complete. For example, our breakout, basically last year we had 3 dmen that could competently break the puck out, so half of the d on the ice. A big complaint about our centers is that they leave the zone too early, i tend to disagree with that, I think they are leaving when they should be but between our D and youth at wing the puck wasn't coming out cleanly and they had to circle back. Fix the breakout and you solve a lot of issues regarding the perception that the centers are leaving too early. The other issue is youth and inexperience at wing, if the wingers are out of position the centers end up out of position. I think Kakko really came forward in that regard last year, i expect Lafreniere to this year and i was impressed with Kravtsov in that regard. Panarin is never gonna be a defensive forward, whoever is on his wing is gonna be between their position and his imo. My complaint with the centers we have is faceoffs, some disagree with their value but i don't look at percentages i look at situational faceoffs, do they win important draws in our end and the offensive end, I think they need to be better.

I think the forecheck was the bigger issue last season and the centers were a big reason. Our centers as a whole like to play in the open ice with all these long lead and cross ice passes. Problem is when the better teams closed down the ice we were left with little offensive push. This reared its ugly head with the opener we were shut out in and continued through out the season. I am one who feels we need to upgrade the center position. To me Strome should be replaced.

 

[Bruner4329]

The entire Center position could be turned upside down in a years time, with none of the current names on next years roster. That type of uncertainty is not conducive to success

This is an excellent point. Too many are willing to go another year with the SOS when our youngsters are prime to continue their development. If what you say is true (and I believe it is) doing a big redo at center a year from now just creates some more down time for people to get accustomed to different styles. At a minimum we should bring in a new center that will be here for the longer haul now.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I think the forecheck was the bigger issue last season and the centers were a big reason. Our centers as a whole like to play in the open ice with all these long lead and cross ice passes. Problem is when the better teams closed down the ice we were left with little offensive push. This reared its ugly head with the opener we were shut out in and continued through out the season. I am one who feels we need to upgrade the center position. To me Strome should be replaced.

omg the wild cross ice passes. So pretty but we knew all those would be taken away when opponents went into playoff mode.

 

[bobbop]

Is this referring to Fertitta? Cause he is certainly not an owner with deep pockets.

The NBA has been getting laughed at for selling the Rockets to him because of how much of a clown show he is

I personally worked with him. He has very deep pockets (underscore very) and he really isn’t that much of a “clown show” NHL would take him in a minute

 

[brakeyawself]

Interesting take!

Id like to add one thing though, and that is that it’s night and day for a team’s offense whether it has a punch offensively from the D. And it takes a great deal from the centers of the Ds aren’t strong at moving the puck.

In addition, there are always trends and counter trends. One reason for why not pure “trapping” have much success in this league is because so many teams have stellar puck moving Ds. But if a team mostly have Ds on the ice like MTLs, you can give it an awful amount of trouble by just sitting back.

My bet is that the most successful teams still will have couple of more offensive minded Ds. But sure a team like MTL might have success here and there.

100%. There's absolutely no downside to puck moving, or offensive Dmen, at least in the mold of Hedman or Fox. Or if a team has a PP specialist that doesn't see as much time at 5x5 or even strength. But usually that latter group of PP specialists aren't going to get top salaries. I think the problem more so arises when you have to pay offensive Dmen top D money, but they don't provide enough actual defense. That screws with the teams asset management. And then it requires a team to still acquire shut down D's who are going to cost a lot on their own. So obviously if you can get a Fox or a Hedman and pay them top dollar, it's totally worth it. Two bird's one stone. And yea every team needs 1 or 2 capable offensive Dmen, at least for the PP and escaping the trap or just breaking the neutral zone in general. However, that can often lead to a counter attack if the offensive D are too focused on offense. At least I noticed this last season a lot with Quinn Hughes and some with Makar. Hughes who had a great rookie season, wasn't quite as successful his sophomore campaign, I think in part, because teams got wise to how he operates and were able to counter him to an extent.

And I think some clubs realized this early on. Which is why, no matter how good guys like Clague were offensively, they weren't really used. Mete dealt with similar, but at least he has been able to improve dramatically on defense.

And then you have guys like Heiskanen and Werenski who are probably capable of putting up more points, but don't need to put up points in order to make an impact. Actually, I think both those guys understand that their first responsibility is defense which probably, to some extent, limits the amount of points they could put up otherwise.

Nurse is an interesting case. He has all the talent in the world. And he puts up beastly statistics. He manages to score a good amount of points without being too heavily used on the PP. And I think to some extent, he's underrated or undervalued by many fans. All though he's not perfect and does have some holes in his game. But I think having a guy like him could be very important for most teams. I'm just not sure if he's worth the 9 mil a year or whatever he's making. But certainly, he provides a lot for one player. I would actually be fairly happy if Miller turned out to be 3/4 of the player Nurse is. I do see a lot of similarities between Nurse and Miller, in play style, ability, athleticism and physique. All though Miller could certainly do with being even half as physical as Nurse is.