Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

[Amazing Kreiderman]

October 13 seems soooooo far away.

Lias' birthday?

 

[Good Intentions]

Honestly? I'm game. That center group compliments the young forward group really well. I would hesitate to trade Kravtsov if Buchnevich is out of the picture. I think any Larkin package starts with Lundkvist and goes from there.

It ends there too.

 

[Edge]

What does our 3c on this team look like? Goodrow? or Gourde?

I see them both as middle 6 centers that can adapt their play based on their wingers. I see Chytil, Dvorak and Zibs capable of playing in all scenarios. It becomes harder to play/matchup against.

I still think Chytils great value will be his 2way workhorse play over pure offense.

It's not as much as going out and getting Dvorak, as it is in finding a stabilizing replacement for Strome, who is all but gone in the 'long-term'. If they want to self-rent and hope Chytil eases into a 2c role? Hope Barron can play center? Hope Kravtsov can make a move? There's more room for failure this route.

Dvorak mitigates a lot of risk and creates a high and stable floor.

( As I see it you need a top9/bottom3. Times have changed. At worst, top8/bottom4. )

In terms of third lines, I will say that I feel comfortable with Kreider-Goodrow-Blais/Kravtsov and potentially some combo of Goodrow-Blais-Barron in the not so distant future.

I think that’s a third line that has a deceptive amount of skill, jam and versatility. To me, a Chytil/Dvorak second and third line combo speaks to more or what we’re actually trying to evolve from, not into.

And some of that ties back into an approach that I’ve alluded to in the past - we’re going to be swapping offensively inclined skill for balance and the ability to change things up on teams. I think you’re looking at an either/or with Chytil and someone like Dvorak. Probably not both.

 

[jay from jersey]

Today I learned that Christian Dvorak is not related to Radek... want him even less now

Christian is a North American kid, radek is from Czech republic

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Quebec.

Ok and who’s moving to the west then?

 

[KevinFinnerty]

In terms of third lines, I will say that I feel comfortable with Kreider-Goodrow-Blais/Kravtsov and potentially some combo of Goodrow-Blais-Barron in the not so distant future.

I think that’s a third line that has a deceptive amount of skill, jam and versatility. To me, a Chytil/Dvorak second and third line combo speaks to more or what we’re actually trying to evolve from, not into.

And some of that ties back into an approach that I’ve alluded to in the past - we’re going to be swapping offensively inclined skill for balance and the ability to change things up on teams. I think you’re looking at an either/or with Chytil and someone like Dvorak. Probably not both.

I think a 3rd line of Kreider-Goodrow-Kravtsov has a lot of untapped offensive potential. I also want to see Panarin-Strome-Blais. He was drafted as a small skill guy, he has good IQ and is a Jesper Fast on steroids.

 

[jay from jersey]

In terms of third lines, I will say that I feel comfortable with Kreider-Goodrow-Blais/Kravtsov and potentially some combo of Goodrow-Blais-Barron in the not so distant future.

I think that’s a third line that has a deceptive amount of skill, jam and versatility. To me, a Chytil/Dvorak second and third line combo speaks to more or what we’re actually trying to evolve from, not into.

And some of that ties back into an approach that I’ve alluded to in the past - we’re going to be swapping offensively inclined skill for balance and the ability to change things up on teams. I think you’re looking at an either/or with Chytil and someone like Dvorak. Probably not both.

I’m really hoping Barron can get a stranglehold on the 3C coming out of camp. There isn’t a better winger you could want then Goodrow to be on his flank and help ease him into the situation and help him with the trials and tribulations of his First full season. Barron has size skill and Grit. I think with that combination he’s going to become a Gallant fav rather quickly in the mold of a Reilly Smith or William Carrier. Kreider-Barron-Goodrow could be a pretty formidable trio, especial down low on the forecheck
My main issue is that he’s not going to get the chance to if strome is still in the picture.
Even if Barron has an amazing camp and out plays chytil in a 3rd line situation for example, they aren’t going to sit Strome or chytil. So Barron would have to wait longer even if he proves ready. That’s not great for development/ self esteem.
Plus a don’t want to see another year of strome taking LaF/ kakko minutes away on the PP

any other news regarding Larkin edge? I still see him as a prime target, but I just can’t see Stevie Y pulling the trigger and sending Detroit’s golden boy outta town. He just comes off as a guy like Doan to me, there will be lots of talks and rumors but ultimately he plays his entire career with one organization

 

[jay from jersey]

I think a 3rd line of Kreider-Goodrow-Kravtsov has a lot of untapped offensive potential. I also want to see Panarin-Strome-Blais. He was drafted as a small skill guy, he has good IQ and is a Jesper Fast on steroids.

Agree about Blais. Underrated hands/shot. Not just a banger. Honestly I’d be very curious to see how a Panarin-Zibby-Blais. Line would do, I wouldn’t mind if Gallant gave that a look at some point.
That way LaF and Chytil could continue the chemistry they had towards the end of the year

 

[aufheben]

It ends there too.

When Stevie hangs up?

 

[duhmetreE]

In terms of third lines, I will say that I feel comfortable with Kreider-Goodrow-Blais/Kravtsov and potentially some combo of Goodrow-Blais-Barron in the not so distant future.

I think that’s a third line that has a deceptive amount of skill, jam and versatility. To me, a Chytil/Dvorak second and third line combo speaks to more or what we’re actually trying to evolve from, not into.

And some of that ties back into an approach that I’ve alluded to in the past - we’re going to be swapping offensively inclined skill for balance and the ability to change things up on teams. I think you’re looking at an either/or with Chytil and someone like Dvorak. Probably not both.

I understand what you're saying but we can't turn the dial too far in the other direction. I also dont agree with that assessment that Dvorak/Chytil will be more of the same.

-Buchnevich to Goodrow is a massive change to the top9.
-Strome to Dvorak, albeit not as big of a change, it's still a difference. Dvorak is the better skating 2way center and imo fits a Gallant system.
-Our expectations of Chytil might differ as well. I think he could fit a mold similar as to a relentless/energy Gourde-type. Also built for a Gallant system and he wont be surrounded by other kids in a Quinn system.

What are the options then? Self rent Strome? Do nothing? I get waiting to see how the team plays under Gallant but is going in with 2 ufa's and a 21 year old the best case scenario? Just hope for the best? Doesn't seem like a plan. Not all questions need to answered but there needs to be some risk mitigated.

The TL;DR of it is, we need good 2-way centers that can skate. Strome-Goodrow is not the answer IMO.

It doesn't have to be Dvorak. It can be anyone available. Given the current situation and urgency portrayed by management, unless I'm missing someone, Dvorak makes the most sense.

 

[bobbop]

Where can you see them relocating to? Houston? They have to stay in the Western Conference for balance purposes. Arizona has been nothing but a failure by Bettman, but hey, Auston Matthews wouldn’t exist without a team there.

Houston would be a lock. Great building and potential owner with deep pockets standing by.

 

[jay from jersey]

I understand what you're saying but we can't turn the dial too far in the other direction. I also dont agree with that assessment that Dvorak/Chytil will be more of the same.

-Buchnevich to Goodrow is a massive change to the top9.
-Strome to Dvorak, albeit not as big of a change, it's still a difference. Dvorak is the better skating 2way center and imo fits a Gallant system.
-Our expectations of Chytil might differ as well. I think he could fit a mold similar as to a relentless/energy Gourde-type. Also built for a Gallant system and he wont be surrounded by other kids in a Quinn system.

What are the options then? Self rent Strome? Do nothing? I get waiting to see how the team plays under Gallant but is going in with 2 ufa's and a 21 year old the best case scenario? Just hope for the best? Doesn't seem like a plan. Not all questions need to answered but there needs to be some risk mitigated.

The TL;DR of it is, we need good 2-way centers that can skate. Strome-Goodrow is not the answer IMO.

It doesn't have to be Dvorak. It can be anyone available. Given the current situation and urgency portrayed by management, unless I'm missing someone, Dvorak makes the most sense.

Im really excited about this season. There’s a lot to look fwd to tbh. Some guys are on the cusp of breaking out and becoming real difference makers. Not gonna lie though, I will be a little bummed if this is the final roster coming out of camp and they don’t to anything to address/change the dynamic at center from last season to this one.
I wouldn’t have Goodrow center the 3rd line either. I’d keep him where he’s been most successful and let him do his thing.
As it stands now from an outsiders perspective, they are worried to let chytil run with the ball for 2C minutes. Otherwise strome would be gone already. And they don’t want to cut strome loose yet because of the worry over chytil.
I just don’t see any situation where they commit to strome long term, and trading a top 6 player mid season while they are probably going to be fighting for a playoff spot isn’t likely or smart. Self renting him wouldn’t be the greatest asset management, but more so it contributes to the log jam of players and prevents some of the kids opportunities.
I’m sure he’s a nice guy and is well liked by some of his team mates, don’t want a contract ext looming and all that comes with that going on all season.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

min really excited about this season. There’s a lot to look fwd to tbh. Some guys are on the cusp of breaking out and becoming real difference makers. Not gonna lie though, I will be a little bummed if this is the final roster coming out of camp and they don’t to anything to address/change the dynamic at center from last season to this one.
I wouldn’t have Goodrow center the 3rd line either. I’d keep him where he’s been most successful and let him do his thing.
As it stands now from an outsiders perspective, they are worried to let chytil run with the ball for 2C minutes. Otherwise strome would be gone already. And they don’t want to cut strome loose yet because of the worry over chytil.
I just don’t see any situation where they commit to strome long term, and trading a top 6 player mid season while they are probably going to be fighting for a playoff spot isn’t likely or smart. Self renting him wouldn’t be the greatest asset management, but more so it contributes to the log jam of players and prevents some of the kids opportunities.

I honestly dont mind our centers, our wingers and D will be our strength, its worked for Vegas, and id take our centers over theirs any day. My big complaint is we need to be better on draws, and our d needs to be complete and able to execute breakouts without giving it to Fox. If those two things happen i have no problem with this team.

 

[jay from jersey]

I honestly dont mind our centers, our wingers and D will be our strength, its worked for Vegas, and id take our centers over theirs any day. My big complaint is we need to be better on draws, and our d needs to be complete and able to execute breakouts without giving it to Fox. If those two things happen i have no problem with this team.

I hear ya, but our look in the middle hasn’t really changed, and it’s by far our weakest link, especially in this division.
I highly doubt strome is in this teams long range plans, and I’m sure he’ll put up solid numbers with Panarin and especially on the PP.
That’s exactly what I’m trying to avoid, because then the temptation is there to do something dumb.
I also don’t want resign/Trade strome to be a major story as were fighting for a playoff spot. We’re gona hear the whole spiel of how great a team mate and player he is and blah blah blah.
It’s like the kreider situation all over again.
In my head I’m doing a positives and negatives situation for the rangers keeping him this season: and at least to me, the negatives far out weigh the positives.
Chemistry with Panarin is his biggest selling point, but the consequences of having him on the roster all year are far more glaring to me. And really, it’s not that I hate strome, I’m happy for him, he’s played well for us and turned around his career around. But imo it’s time to cash in and trade him.

 

[Edge]

I understand what you're saying but we can't turn the dial too far in the other direction. I also dont agree with that assessment that Dvorak/Chytil will be more of the same.

-Buchnevich to Goodrow is a massive change to the top9.
-Strome to Dvorak, albeit not as big of a change, it's still a difference. Dvorak is the better skating 2way center and imo fits a Gallant system.
-Our expectations of Chytil might differ as well. I think he could fit a mold similar as to a relentless/energy Gourde-type. Also built for a Gallant system and he wont be surrounded by other kids in a Quinn system.

What are the options then? Self rent Strome? Do nothing? I get waiting to see how the team plays under Gallant but is going in with 2 ufa's and a 21 year old the best case scenario? Just hope for the best? Doesn't seem like a plan. Not all questions need to answered but there needs to be some risk mitigated.

The TL;DR of it is, we need good 2-way centers that can skate. Strome-Goodrow is not the answer IMO.

It doesn't have to be Dvorak. It can be anyone available. Given the current situation and urgency portrayed by management, unless I'm missing someone, Dvorak makes the most sense.

I feel like we have the skill more of less covered at this point. I also think some of the guys we've brought in are probably under rated in that regard as well. In not too worried about going the other way unless we make some interesting changes.

I think there remains an interest in a center. Just probably not quite one in this mold or in that price point. You might be looking at more of a short term option that can shift as needed.

 

[gravey9]

I'll be interested to see what happens to the PK if we go into the season with this mix of forwards.

right now we have Rooney, Zibanejad and Goodrow who've played PK consistently. Then, everyone else. Barron? Kakko? Chytil? Strome? Dryden Hunt? Reaves? Kravtsov? We need to ID 3-4 forwards.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

In terms of third lines, I will say that I feel comfortable with Kreider-Goodrow-Blais/Kravtsov and potentially some combo of Goodrow-Blais-Barron in the not so distant future.

I think that’s a third line that has a deceptive amount of skill, jam and versatility. To me, a Chytil/Dvorak second and third line combo speaks to more or what we’re actually trying to evolve from, not into.

And some of that ties back into an approach that I’ve alluded to in the past - we’re going to be swapping offensively inclined skill for balance and the ability to change things up on teams. I think you’re looking at an either/or with Chytil and someone like Dvorak. Probably not both.

Blais at center over Goodrow..? I just don’t see it man.

Edit: Blais at center over Goodrow and Barron?

Meh...... Blais is not a center. In any way.

 

[egelband]

Yes respond with a meme instead of articulating your argument.

Do you not understand the parallel between the love affair you are showing Blais and the love affair when we acquired Gauthier only for him to play exactly like he did in Carolina even with a change of scenery?

No one looked at the Blackwell signing with any interest, while Gauthier proved to have the same problem with Carolina, not good enough to be a top 6 and never adjusted his game to be a contributor on the bottom 6 besides being a defensive liability.

I think Gauthier can be a good top sixer if he gets the chance actually. I hope he gets at least a few games to prove it. I think he just can’t adjust to a checking role. Unfortunately I think he’s kind of wasted playing on the fourth line.

 

[LokiDog]

I'll be interested to see what happens to the PK if we go into the season with this mix of forwards.

right now we have Rooney, Zibanejad and Goodrow who've played PK consistently. Then, everyone else. Barron? Kakko? Chytil? Strome? Dryden Hunt? Reaves? Kravtsov? We need to ID 3-4 forwards.

Kreider played pretty regular PK minutes last year. No reason he can’t be the 4th PKer. Kakko is becoming a phenomenal two-way winger. He can definitely be tried on the PK. Chytil has good underlying numbers at EV defensively. He could be given a shot on the PK. I’m not worried about this group’s PKing right now. If we’re struggling 1/4 way in, maybe we need to consider an addition.

Edit: Kreider didn’t PK as much as I first thought, but he looked fine in that role. Barron also playing significantly more PK time in his limited viewings than I’d have expected.

 

[brakeyawself]

Speaking specifically about Arizona, they have an awful drafting history. They haven't had a lot of top five picks but when they did, they royally screwed it up. They haven't done much better beyond that either.

They have clearly signaled their intention to tank this (and probably next) season. So far this summer, they have acquired six players who could have been bought out or buried in the minors. They have accumulated a lot of draft picks over the next couple of years for taking on this dreck.

What is awful (living here) is that the last time they went all out to tank (2015), I got to watch some of the worst hockey I've seen in years. I worked in minor league hockey and I can tell you what I saw here was as bad as anything I ever saw in the old Eastern League. I think of that year and see a "coming soon" on this season.

This season, the Coyotes move into the much tougher Central Division. With a cash poor owner, a depleted roster and for sale signs on the few assets they have left, I just don't know how much life there is left in this franchise. I know that has been said before but this time I think it's a definite reality.

Actually, what you are saying is why I have some hope we could get Dvorak. Strome's contract is up after this season. If Yotes want to maximize cap space, I wonder if they would accept say Strome + a 2nd round pick or Strome + like Tuomanen, for Dvorak. Otherwise I think they want too much for him. And I would, at least right now, prefer to go forward with Zibs, Chytil, Dvorak as our top 3 centers. Maybe Dvorak plays on the 2nd line until Chytil is fully ready to take over. But either way, I think we need what Dvorak provides right now way more than Strome.

As far as the Yotes bad picks. They've kind of gotten screwed with Keller. Everyone, including me, thought he'd be like a 35-40 goal scorer by now. And he just hasn't progressed to that extent. Hatyon is still a very questionable pick. I know they are still high on him, or so it seems, but I am really not sure what to make of him. He's still so young though, so I don't want to write him off prematurely. But no, they haven't had a whole lot of luck with their picks. Even a guy like OEL, who looked so promising his first 2-3 seasons, seems to have eventually fell off a bit. I am hoping for the Canucks, who invested a fair amount in his contract, that he can rebound. They'll certainly need it with Quinn being as bad defensively as he is.

I actually think this HIGH offensive Dman trend we are seeing is kind of obscuring a bigger problem. That these are defenders first and foremost and some not very good at defense. And I don't care how good at offense they are, if they can't play defense to an above average degree, they shouldn't be defenders. Even Erik Karlsson, who started this trend, and who by no means was a bad defender, couldn't carry the Sens anywhere meaningful. I actually don't think any team with an unbalanced, high investment, offensive dman that is sub par at D, will likely go very far. Partly because they will have to pay those offensive Dmen, top money, while they suffer with them defensively. Which is why a guy like Fox or theoretically Jones could be so important. Because, while they might not have quite as high an offensive ceiling as Hughes or Makar, they are worlds better defensively. And I would take a slightly lesser offensive guy, who's substantially better defensively, to play D in the NHL, any day over a high offensive guy who's subpar at D. Which is why guys like Brandt Clarke don't excite me too much. Unless they can prove to be, or improve to be better defenders than just offensive dmen.

 

[pld459666]

Ok and who’s moving to the west then?

Send the Wings back west.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Houston is the next western market. Top 10 population in the US. Big TV market. Quebec is the standby in the west. KC is probably next in line in the west.

Bettman needs a city ready and willing to threaten current NHL cities during arena negotiations. Houston was the alternative for Calgary. Quebec was alluded to when the Isles kept hitting snags. Bettman will keep at least one city in the west and east each which will prevent a conference imbalance.

Edit: I meant Quebec is the east.

 

[Ola]

Actually, what you are saying is why I have some hope we could get Dvorak. Strome's contract is up after this season. If Yotes want to maximize cap space, I wonder if they would accept say Strome + a 2nd round pick or Strome + like Tuomanen, for Dvorak. Otherwise I think they want too much for him. And I would, at least right now, prefer to go forward with Zibs, Chytil, Dvorak as our top 3 centers. Maybe Dvorak plays on the 2nd line until Chytil is fully ready to take over. But either way, I think we need what Dvorak provides right now way more than Strome.

As far as the Yotes bad picks. They've kind of gotten screwed with Keller. Everyone, including me, thought he'd be like a 35-40 goal scorer by now. And he just hasn't progressed to that extent. Hatyon is still a very questionable pick. I know they are still high on him, or so it seems, but I am really not sure what to make of him. He's still so young though, so I don't want to write him off prematurely. But no, they haven't had a whole lot of luck with their picks. Even a guy like OEL, who looked so promising his first 2-3 seasons, seems to have eventually fell off a bit. I am hoping for the Canucks, who invested a fair amount in his contract, that he can rebound. They'll certainly need it with Quinn being as bad defensively as he is.

I actually think this HIGH offensive Dman trend we are seeing is kind of obscuring a bigger problem. That these are defenders first and foremost and some not very good at defense. And I don't care how good at offense they are, if they can't play defense to an above average degree, they shouldn't be defenders. Even Erik Karlsson, who started this trend, and who by no means was a bad defender, couldn't carry the Sens anywhere meaningful. I actually don't think any team with an unbalanced, high investment, offensive dman that is sub par at D, will likely go very far. Partly because they will have to pay those offensive Dmen, top money, while they suffer with them defensively. Which is why a guy like Fox or theoretically Jones could be so important. Because, while they might not have quite as high an offensive ceiling as Hughes or Makar, they are worlds better defensively. And I would take a slightly lesser offensive guy, who's substantially better defensively, to play D in the NHL, any day over a high offensive guy who's subpar at D. Which is why guys like Brandt Clarke don't excite me too much. Unless they can prove to be, or improve to be better defenders than just offensive dmen.

Interesting take!

Id like to add one thing though, and that is that it’s night and day for a team’s offense whether it has a punch offensively from the D. And it takes a great deal from the centers of the Ds aren’t strong at moving the puck.

In addition, there are always trends and counter trends. One reason for why not pure “trapping” have much success in this league is because so many teams have stellar puck moving Ds. But if a team mostly have Ds on the ice like MTLs, you can give it an awful amount of trouble by just sitting back.

My bet is that the most successful teams still will have couple of more offensive minded Ds. But sure a team like MTL might have success here and there.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Houston would be a lock. Great building and potential owner with deep pockets standing by.

Is this referring to Fertitta? Cause he is certainly not an owner with deep pockets.

The NBA has been getting laughed at for selling the Rockets to him because of how much of a clown show he is

 

[Fitzy]

I feel like we have the skill more of less covered at this point. I also think some of the guys we've brought in are probably under rated in that regard as well. In not too worried about going the other way unless we make some interesting changes.

I think there remains an interest in a center. Just probably not quite one in this mold or in that price point. You might be looking at more of a short term option that can shift as needed.

I think the skill is there provided Kakko and Lafreniere advance the way that they should.

The big questions for me if the roster stays the way it is are

1) Chytil-Strome situation
2) PK forwards

If Drury is big into players with 'clearly defined roles,' I imagine we are going to see somewhat fewer players involved heavily both on the PP and PK. Howden, Buchnevich, Blackwell were both PK stalwarts who are gone, forwards 2, 3, and 7 in PK minutes per game. You'd like to see Zibby less leaned on here.


Blais hasn't killed penalties yet. Hunt has not killed penalties for any club. Neither does Reaves. Thats three bottom 6 forwards with zero PK experience. You need 3 PK forward pairings, and a 7th for when one of the aforementioned six is in the box. Barron may start the year in Hartford, meaning that Zibanejad, Rooney, and Strome will be the only returning Rangers with extensive PK experience.

Rooney-Goodrow
Zibanejad-(Chytil?)
Strome-(Kakko?)
Kreider

I'd like to see Chytil and Kakko learn the penalty kill. It'll be an easy way to increase their roles, since neither is likely to see time on the PP1. On the other hand, if Hunt and Blais are in the lineup, playing them only 8-10 minutes a game is going to be less popular with people and coaches who want to distribute minutes more evenly.

Lindgren-Fox, Nemeth-Trouba the defensive pairings.

If your lineup ends up

Laf-Zib-Kravtov
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Kreider-Chytil-Goodrow(Draws)
Hunt-Rooney-Blais
Reaves

That fourth line is going to have a mandate to go out there and be tough to play against. Shades of Hollweg-Betts-Ortmeyer