Speculation: Roster Building Thread - Part XXII

[bleedblue94]

I don't ignore it. In fact, I literally predicted it: Proposal: - OEL to Vancouver

That was the cost of moving OEL. As I said for weeks or months leading up to the deal, OEL would go for short-term dumps. That a desperate GM only concerned with the next 1-3 seasons would be willing to trade a couple of bad contracts with less term for the OEL boat-anchor, just to save his neck.

I also proposed OEL for Lucic. And OEL for James Neal. And OEL for Brett Connolly and Calvin De Haan. Haha.

I'm referring to the idea that garland nearly landed the pick on his own.

 

[DialUp]

So we only have a few months’ wait, likely.

Boom, roasted

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I'm kinda wondering if it was Smith who wanted to get out.

in the interview it sounded like he was pretty bummed to leave the Rangers, and only started to feel better about it when he met with Rod the Bod and because his wife loves Raleigh

 

[bobbop]

Maybe Armstrong wants too much. In one of the 31 Thoughts podcast, Elliotte Friedman and Jeff Marek were discussing the Adin Hill trade. Bill Armstrong wanted a 2nd round pick for Hill. He wouldn't budge and accept anything less. He has a price set and that is the price. Everyone knew the asking price and Armstrong felt he would look weak by accepting less. It would hurt his future dealings. The Sharks gave Arizona a 2nd round pick for Hill. The Coyotes also received a minor league goalie in the trade.

Armstrong wanted a lot for Darcy Kuemper. The player was available last off-season and nothing happened. If Colorado was able to re-sign their goaltender, Kuemper is probably a Coyote right now. The other teams were not willing to meet the asking price until the Avs needed a goaltender.

I read the Bruins offered young prospects for Christian Dvorak but Armstrong said no.

I think you are right. Armstrong has probably set a price that includes a first round draft pick. I don’t think Drury would ever move his first round pick for a player like this. The Coyotes are probably smart to hold the player until someone meets that price. Perhaps at the trade deadline.

The Rangers have better prospects than the Bruins but that doesn’t fit the Coyotes model. You can be stubborn when you are flat out tanking.

 

[bobbop]

What are we referencing here? Berube had it out for Blais?

He did coach him in the AHL too didn't he?

Blais sat a few games when Berube wasn’t happy with his effort. It’s not a big deal.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Blais sat a few games when Berube wasn’t happy with his effort. It’s not a big deal.

Happens to darn near 50% of the roster on darn near 100% of teams every year.

 

[Tob]

If JT Miller can go from what he was with us to being lauded as a leader, locker room mentor, and core player, then Sammy Blais can start with a fresh slate here.

 

[Avery16]

Blais sat a few games when Berube wasn’t happy with his effort. It’s not a big deal.

Berube had other forwards (Clifford, McEachern) performing the same role at his disposal. It might not have been a ‘doghouse’ situation at all.

 

[brakeyawself]

That’s the problem imo. Look at all those 1st overall picks who didn’t turn out, is it just coincidence? Did that many of the players to be deemed the best in the world at 18 just fall off a cliff? Or were they rushed, mismanaged & poorly developed?

Inept organizations like Edmonton & Buffalo ruin talent, they are handed players with elite potential and they don’t develop them. Players and their parents made all those sacrifices their entire life to get to such a high level to be top picks in drafts only to be ruined by a team who would have a hard time managing a pizza restaurant. We would see a lot more talent in hockey if it weren’t for this.

I also just despise tanking, sports are supposed to be the epitome of meritocracy. One of the last bastions of it in modern society really, and we have fanbases who actively cheer for their teams to lose in hopes of winning their loser trophy. I don’t think you should ever be better off doing worse.

I get despising tanking sure.

But I'm saying, right now the Rangers record on "ruining" top picks is still up in the air until Laf and Kakko actually become what they're supposed to.

And you can say the same about Arizona I guess, which isn't a great compare lol. Hayton, Keller and so on.

And then you just have to look at the 2010 draft, Picks #3 Panthers - Erik Gudbranson, #5 Isles - Niedereiter, #6 Tampa Bay - Brett Connoly

2012 NHL draft #1 Oilers - Yakupov, #3 Montreal - Galchenyuk, # 4 Isles - Griffin Reinhart

2013 - #3 Tampa Bay - Drouin

2014 - #1 Panthers - Ekblad, #2 Buffalo - Reinhart, #4 Calgary - Sam Bennett, #5 Isles - Dal Colle

2015 - #3 Arizona - Dylan Strome, #5 Carolina - Noah Hanafin, #6 Devils - Zacha

2016 - #4 Oilers - Puljujarvi, #5 Vancouver - Juolevi

2017 #1 Devils - Hischier, #2 Philly - Nolan Patrick , #6 Vegas - Cody Glass

New Jersey, Hischier still hasn't matured into that player. 2011 they chose Adam Larson #4

We can see that all variety of organization have chosen multiple players that never became the players they were supposed to. From the Devils, Philly, Oilers, Coyotes to organizations most fans would envy like Lightning, Panthers, Carolina.

Are we going to say the Lightning, Panthers, Carolina are bad organizations? The Isles now?

NHL Draft has a systemically low success rate. And I really do not think it's specific organizations that ruin players necessarily. But many consensus top picks that simply fail to reach the heights most thought they would.

But I get the point about tanking. It's fair. But yea, I don't think you can blame the organizations for all these failures. Maybe in one or two cases, something happened or the organization made a wrong choice that halted a players progress. But those are probably pretty rare cases.

 

[bleedblue94]

Regarding Blaise, he had ongoing injury issues all year, and w other players performing throughout the year in similar roles it was a battle at times to get back into the lineup. Then it seemed each time he did he ended up having another minor injury issue that restarted the cycle. He will benefit from the trade at this point.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

will Tinordi even be a #7? we have bitetto and hajek for 7/8

Jones is my 7th

 

[haohmaru]

Hopefully Smith snuck into the Caps locker room and put some of this in Wilson's underwear.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Hopefully Smith snuck into the Caps locker room and put some of this in Wilson's underwear.

High grade marijuana?

 

[Good Intentions]

Jones is my 7th

…Your 7th what? That makes zero sense.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Jones is my 7th

It does neither Jones or the organization any good to have him as the 7th. He’ll be in Hartford.

 

[pld459666]

It does neither Jones or the organization any good to have him as the 7th. He’ll be in BUFFALO.

Fixed it for ya

 

[Fitzy]

High grade marijuana?

Would certainly help him to chill TF out

 

[Fitzy]

Reunanen-Schneider
Robertson-Jones
???-Skinner

Hartford will be testing the "experience>talent in the AHL" narrative hard this season.

 

[Thirty One]

Reunanen-Schneider
Robertson-Jones
???-Skinner

Hartford will be testing the "experience>talent in the AHL" narrative hard this season.

??? would probably be Bitetto?

 

[Fitzy]

??? would probably be Bitetto?

Based on who we have signed right now, one of Bitteto, Hajek, or Geertson I guess.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Today I learned that Christian Dvorak is not related to Radek... want him even less now

 

[bobbop]

I get despising tanking sure.

But I'm saying, right now the Rangers record on "ruining" top picks is still up in the air until Laf and Kakko actually become what they're supposed to.

And you can say the same about Arizona I guess, which isn't a great compare lol. Hayton, Keller and so on.

And then you just have to look at the 2010 draft, Picks #3 Panthers - Erik Gudbranson, #5 Isles - Niedereiter, #6 Tampa Bay - Brett Connoly

2012 NHL draft #1 Oilers - Yakupov, #3 Montreal - Galchenyuk, # 4 Isles - Griffin Reinhart

2013 - #3 Tampa Bay - Drouin

2014 - #1 Panthers - Ekblad, #2 Buffalo - Reinhart, #4 Calgary - Sam Bennett, #5 Isles - Dal Colle

2015 - #3 Arizona - Dylan Strome, #5 Carolina - Noah Hanafin, #6 Devils - Zacha

2016 - #4 Oilers - Puljujarvi, #5 Vancouver - Juolevi

2017 #1 Devils - Hischier, #2 Philly - Nolan Patrick , #6 Vegas - Cody Glass

New Jersey, Hischier still hasn't matured into that player. 2011 they chose Adam Larson #4

We can see that all variety of organization have chosen multiple players that never became the players they were supposed to. From the Devils, Philly, Oilers, Coyotes to organizations most fans would envy like Lightning, Panthers, Carolina.

Are we going to say the Lightning, Panthers, Carolina are bad organizations? The Isles now?

NHL Draft has a systemically low success rate. And I really do not think it's specific organizations that ruin players necessarily. But many consensus top picks that simply fail to reach the heights most thought they would.

But I get the point about tanking. It's fair. But yea, I don't think you can blame the organizations for all these failures. Maybe in one or two cases, something happened or the organization made a wrong choice that halted a players progress. But those are probably pretty rare cases.

Speaking specifically about Arizona, they have an awful drafting history. They haven't had a lot of top five picks but when they did, they royally screwed it up. They haven't done much better beyond that either.

They have clearly signaled their intention to tank this (and probably next) season. So far this summer, they have acquired six players who could have been bought out or buried in the minors. They have accumulated a lot of draft picks over the next couple of years for taking on this dreck.

What is awful (living here) is that the last time they went all out to tank (2015), I got to watch some of the worst hockey I've seen in years. I worked in minor league hockey and I can tell you what I saw here was as bad as anything I ever saw in the old Eastern League. I think of that year and see a "coming soon" on this season.

This season, the Coyotes move into the much tougher Central Division. With a cash poor owner, a depleted roster and for sale signs on the few assets they have left, I just don't know how much life there is left in this franchise. I know that has been said before but this time I think it's a definite reality.

 

[bleedblue94]

Jones is my 7th

Jones is going to be playing somewhere whether it's in the nhl or ahl. He isn't going to be a 7th d man this year, that's not how you develop a young player...

 

[Levitate]

Speaking specifically about Arizona, they have an awful drafting history. They haven't had a lot of top five picks but when they did, they royally screwed it up. They haven't done much better beyond that either.

They have clearly signaled their intention to tank this (and probably next) season. So far this summer, they have acquired six players who could have been bought out or buried in the minors. They have accumulated a lot of draft picks over the next couple of years for taking on this dreck.

What is awful (living here) is that the last time they went all out to tank (2015), I got to watch some of the worst hockey I've seen in years. I worked in minor league hockey and I can tell you what I saw here was as bad as anything I ever saw in the old Eastern League. I think of that year and see a "coming soon" on this season.

This season, the Coyotes move into the much tougher Central Division. With a cash poor owner, a depleted roster and for sale signs on the few assets they have left, I just don't know how much life there is left in this franchise. I know that has been said before but this time I think it's a definite reality.

I don't quite understand how they've been consistently mismanaged throughout multiple different ownerships etc but I guess when you're always begging someone to buy the team you're not getting the most savvy buyers who will install the smartest hockey ops people?

 

[bleedblue94]

I don't quite understand how they've been consistently mismanaged throughout multiple different ownerships etc but I guess when you're always begging someone to buy the team you're not getting the most savvy buyers who will install the smartest hockey ops people?

Bad finances lead to staff cuts or not hiring the best people and it becomes a snowball of substandard hires, cheap moves, and internal strategy shifting to trying to survive instead of thriving. Seems every new owner came in expecting to fix the arena situation either with a new building or some other idea and when reality kicks in they just start cheaping out and the cycle repeats.

It's a death spiral for any business.

Current owner will heavily benifit from gambling licenses, he is betting on that making the team profitable going forward.