Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXII

[Gardner McKay]

It’s a buyers market this year.

It’d be great if Duchene could sign in Ottawa. Ditto stone.

I feel like we say this every year.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Quote by Brooks: Or maybe it’s because Jimmy Vesey has made scant progress on Broadway this season, maybe because Brady Skjei seems as confused this year as last, and maybe because Pavel Buchnevich, who scored a pair on the power play, is back to being a fourth-line guy and it isn’t even Alain Vigneault’s fault this time around. Maybe that’s it.

I know. Patience is the byword. And I believe in it. I believe it is going to take time for the young guns — not one of them a top-five pick — to develop, and I believe in not placing undue expectations and pressure on even the best and the brightest in the pipeline. But once in a while, or maybe even just once, wouldn’t you like to see one of the yoots burst onto the big stage and unexpectedly claim it? Quote end.

Well I don`t have patience I admit that, but it looks like Brooks is concerned with the amount of talents and prospects NYR are drafting the recent years don`t live up to their expectations and most of the prospects are all drafted - we have very few players outside of the whole drafting system.

So my question is what is wrong with the New York Rangers franchise; is`t a scouting issue, a GM issue, a development staff issues and some staff members who are not doing a good enough job or not good enough qualified, a coaching staff issue? Ruff seldom get mentioned, but our defense the recent years with him in charge has looked horrible, but in Ruff defense our defender prospects turn out to be mediore at best, and too often not very good like Brady Skjei after he signed that 5 mil + $ contract.

Brooks wants a process over that has only begun in earnest back in March. Granted, so do quite a few posters here. So, his basic premise is wrong. Aside from Andersson, the players he identified -Vesey and Buchnevich, for example - are not players you build around. And even though Andersson was selected 7OA, I have my doubts that he’s also a player you build around. And that’s the basic flaw of his premise. Quite frankly, it was fairly obvious what Gorton was doing. The Howdens, Hajeks and Lindgrens are all support players and allow the organization to build up depth. But, the draft was going to be where the Rangers went after the players with high end potential. And four of the first round picks were exactly that. Brooks is failing to understand that the whole system needed to be rebuilt and that not every prospect is going to be on the team when this team starts contending. It’s the accumulation of assets, and identifying which players will be the core. And that’s not an overnight process that’s going to produce immediate results. Larry’s not fond of the pain the Rangers are going through.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Quote by Brooks: Or maybe it’s because Jimmy Vesey has made scant progress on Broadway this season, maybe because Brady Skjei seems as confused this year as last, and maybe because Pavel Buchnevich, who scored a pair on the power play, is back to being a fourth-line guy and it isn’t even Alain Vigneault’s fault this time around. Maybe that’s it.

I know. Patience is the byword. And I believe in it. I believe it is going to take time for the young guns — not one of them a top-five pick — to develop, and I believe in not placing undue expectations and pressure on even the best and the brightest in the pipeline. But once in a while, or maybe even just once, wouldn’t you like to see one of the yoots burst onto the big stage and unexpectedly claim it? Quote end.

Well I don`t have patience I admit that, but it looks like Brooks is concerned with the amount of talents and prospects NYR are drafting in the recent years who don`t live up to their expectations, and most of the prospects are all drafted - we have very few players outside of the whole drafting system.

So my question is what is wrong with the New York Rangers Franchise; is`t a scouting issue, a GM issue, a development staff issue, and some staff members who are not doing a good enough job, or not good enough qualified, a coaching staff issue? Ruff seldom get mentioned, but our defense the recent years with him in charge has looked horrible, but in Ruff defense our defender prospects turn out to be mediore at best, and too often not very good like Brady Skjei after he signed that 5 mil + $ contract.

We know.

The "issues" you bring up don't even exist yet. None of the young guys who have been with the team aside from Chytil really profile as impact players and our vets collectively suck. People have gotten all over Chytil for not lighting the world on fire, but he's pretty much producing as much as you'd expect a 19 year old who isn't a top 5 selection to produce in this league. The fact that he's been able to stick and not look out of place most of the time is impressive in its own right. He's also playing on a team that blows, player for player there isn't a team with less talent than this one, not Ottawa, Not LA, not Chicago, not Detroit.

I'd also love to see someone step into the league at 18-19-20 and light the world on fire, but unless you're picking in the top 5 (and usually top 3) that is incredibly unlikely.

Even if they did, it wouldn't be a sure thing. Svechnikov was all world, #2 OA, the be all end all of forwards from the 2018 draft, he's on pace for less than 40 points this season. He's had a very strong rookie year aside from the statistics, but had he been doing this here there would be a whole bunch of whining and wondering why we never draft the right guys when the whining would be unwarranted and we truly don't have any idea just how good he'll be.

Brooks article was basically him saying "Listen, I'm not whining about this team not having young impact forwards/players when they weren't expected to have them, but I'm going to complain about it anyway."

 

[Gardner McKay]

On the surface, nothing about Edmonton is enticing to me as a trade partner. However, I can't deny that the idea of trading with a well documented incompetent GM is intriguing.

Could not agree more.

I'm with you on his talent, he's got it.

I just want him to take the next step, and fully commit to being a pro. I want him to do all the things his coach asks, so that talent can get in the lineup consistently.

I don't know that one can say ADA hasn't committed to being a pro. If he was able to instantly do all the things the coach asked of him night in and night out, combined with his offensive abilities, he would be a top 5 defenseman in the league right now. There are going to be mistakes and gaffes. The important thing to look at with ADA is are they becoming less frequent.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I feel like we say this every year.

This is true, but I didn't see it that way last year.

I'm hoping that the west race stays close enough where some teams are tempted to buy and/or stay put and let the chips fall where they may.

There are already as many as 6 teams that are more or less dead in the East already (OTT, DET, PHI, NJD, FLA, NYR) with Carolina hanging on the periphery and Buffalo fading a bit.

 

[Ori]

Maybe Brooks is on point here and he notice such things and write about it based on his lifetime experience related to sport and NHL. Well some of us are aware it`s an on-going process how to improve the current Franchise and their owner is losing money on this rebuild no doubts about that.

 

[haveandare]

Quote by Brooks:

Well I don`t have patience I admit that, but it looks like Brooks is concerned with the amount of talents and prospects NYR are drafting in the recent years who don`t live up to their expectations, and most of the prospects are all drafted - we have very few players outside of the whole drafting system.

So my question is what is wrong with the New York Rangers Franchise; is`t a scouting issue, a GM issue, a development staff issue, and some staff members who are not doing a good enough job, or not good enough qualified, a coaching staff issue? Ruff seldom get mentioned, but our defense the recent years with him in charge has looked horrible, but in Ruff defense our defender prospects turn out to be mediocre at best, and too often not very good like Brady Skjei after he signed that 5 mil + $ contract.

What's wrong for the most part is that we gave away picks like candy for years and years and all but a tiny handful of prospects each draft need a year or two to be NHLers and sometimes more to be impact players. NYR has only been using their own first rounders consistently, let alone adding others, for the last two drafts. Our last first round pick we actually made before 2017 was Skjei, who was 28th overall in 2012.

 

[haveandare]

Theoretically, how can this defense be fixed in a season or two?

We need a stud or two. Someone like a Ryan McDonagh....

Like him but way younger and not signed well beyond his peak.

 

[Thirty One]

This is true, but I didn't see it that way last year.

I'm hoping that the west race stays close enough where some teams are tempted to buy and/or stay put and let the chips fall where they may.

There are already as many as 6 teams that are more or less dead in the East already (OTT, DET, PHI, NJD, FLA, NYR) with Carolina hanging on the periphery and Buffalo fading a bit.

And Columbus in kind of an awkward spot with two very high impact UFAs who likely don't see a future there.

 

[RangerBoy]

A Grabner type return for Zuccarello.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Theoretically, how can this defense be fixed in a season or two?

We need a stud or two. Someone like a Ryan McDonagh....

Erik Karlsson

 

[Ori]

Yes true 29 years old is not going to build a future so we are hopefully past that no matter how the trade pieces turn out. We still have a conditional pick from Tampa if they somehow manage to win the cup this year. I believe it was a good decision when Lias & Libor H. developing with Wolfpack too since I mentioned him earlier, and they decided to recall Ryan Lindgren but that is fine. But I`m concerned about our defense core after they moved Ryan Mc. - it need to be rebuild from the core when Marc Staal retire and Kevin Shattenkirk contract is over or he is moved in a trade window.

 

[Gardner McKay]

This is true, but I didn't see it that way last year.

I'm hoping that the west race stays close enough where some teams are tempted to buy and/or stay put and let the chips fall where they may.

There are already as many as 6 teams that are more or less dead in the East already (OTT, DET, PHI, NJD, FLA, NYR) with Carolina hanging on the periphery and Buffalo fading a bit.

Personally, I don't see it being much different than last year. There were 5 teams in the east that were dead this time last year and 3 in the west.

This year it is 6 and 3 (if you count Arizona). If not then it is 6 and 2. I think the fact that there are more in the East skews perception a bit.

 

[Thirty One]

Ryan Spooner is available!

 

[Irishguy42]

Yammamoto+2nd please and thank you

 

[Off Sides]

While I do have concern over the market for the selling aspect, usually when it boils down to it there are like 8 buyers of various degrees. Rangers much like last year have some advantages in that they can also take back cap/salary that goes beyond this season.

Any team trading for Hayes for example is likely to at least think about extending him. By the Rangers taking back cap and also real salary commitments in that deal it in turn gives the trading team more cap/real money to work with for any extension/signing whether that is Hayes or someone else.

Is Ottawa for example going to take on a bunch more in real money expenditure than is outgoing? Can Detroit or LA even take on more cap than is outgoing?

 

[duhmetreE]

TBH the only thing I'd trade Hayes for is OTT's 1st. No other package is worth it IMO

Panarin nearly a point per game player at ES this year... Would look good with Hayes... just sayin

Kreider Zib
Panarin Hayes

Fill in Chytil, Kravstov, Buch, top pick and/or Zucc where appropriate

 

[Tawnos]

TBH the only thing I'd trade Hayes for is OTT's 1st. No other package is worth it IMO

Panarin nearly a point per game player at ES this year... Would look good with Hayes... just sayin

Kreider Zib
Panarin Hayes

Fill in Chytil, Kravstov, Buch, top pick and/or Zucc where appropriate

Any package that is a 1st+ is worth it for Hayes.

 

[duhmetreE]

Any package that is a 1st+ is worth it for Hayes.

I disagree. Late 1sts will just give us more of the same

 

[Gardner McKay]

I disagree. Late 1sts will just give us more of the same

If you're Colorado, would you even begin to entertain giving up that 1st for Hayes? The answer of course, is no. Therefore, setting up unrealistic expectations for a Hayes deal is a surefire way to be disappointed with any return for Hayes.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I disagree. Late 1sts will just give us more of the same

Same as in a younger Hayes with 7 years of control?

I'd take that.

 

[Tawnos]

I disagree. Late 1sts will just give us more of the same

3 of the top ten D scorers from last season were drafted in the late 1st.

Yeah, it might end up being more of the same level of Hayes player... or worse... but you certainly aren't getting anything better by keeping him.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Same as in a younger Hayes with 7 years of control?

I'd take that.

Or another shot at this draft’s Miller or Chytil? Yeah, I’ll take more of the that kind of ‘the same ‘.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Buch has time to develop ... this is a rebuild you ride it out w him

Vesey and Names whatever. Get a good deal and move on

Agree with Buch. What’s a good deal for Vesey and Names though? A 3rd and a meh prospect that might become as good as them? I think their value here as warm bodies will better than their potential return.

 

[mulli25]

Could not agree more.


I don't know that one can say ADA hasn't committed to being a pro. If he was able to instantly do all the things the coach asked of him night in and night out, combined with his offensive abilities, he would be a top 5 defenseman in the league right now. There are going to be mistakes and gaffes. The important thing to look at with ADA is are they becoming less frequent.

I don't think Quinn is demanding perfection, and I think his willingness to live with growing pains on the ice is well documented in what we've observed this season. I think he's asking to see some specific things with ADA that he hasn't consistently shown him yet in practice, meetings, or games.

I hope he continues to build on some good games here and does what he has to do behind the scenes to put himself in the best position to succeed.