Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII What will Santa Gorton bring us?

[Ghost of jas]

Skjei and Pionk could both go for Parayko AFAIC. What would we need to add, Jimothy, maybe?

 

[E-Train]

Skjei and Pionk could both go for Parayko AFAIC. What would we need to add, Jimothy, maybe?

I think the reality would be more painful.

 

[Richard Banger]

He'd probably cost Buch+Chtyil+1st rounder.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Saw some stuff on Twitter about NYR interested in Parayko, doubt it happens but any truth to it?
I’d do Skjei+Lundkvist+ to secure Parayko

Where did you see that?

 

[Trxjw]

Not sure why St. Louis would move Parayko with Pietrangelo a year and a half away from being a UFA.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

For some reason Pionk and ADA are pitted against each other like you can only like one, and to like one means you are crapping on the other, no idea why we cant like one or the other or both.

Not even that because I did and dolike the "form" of both but I'm not introducing that dichotomy; others have. I agree... but in nearing 10 games, DeAngelo hasn't had a point... he's trying defensively and still not really getting it... yet, people have chalked up each and every one of a BRAND NEW NHL d-man's points to good luck. My theory, and I half cringe to say it, is because of his name... BUT I have no doubt Padraig O'Flaherty would be any different... McDonagh, del Zotto, G all regularly got a pass... why? NYC ideology.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I think Stepan, in 2017, was like Kreider now. A 2nd line forward with some upside that a significant amount of people think will break-out into an All-Star. Well-respected posters here often disagree but the fact that he's the team's go-to guy says more about its average talent level than anything. With that said, he's proving me wrong with career-best performance. Thing is, in these times, at his age/experience level, you'd expect a guy to be peaking. Good player. All things considered, not a guy you'd bring in as the go-to guy, IMO. We'll see...

 

[bobbop]

Hopefully Fox tells Carolina he's not gonna sign. Wonder what it would take if it's clear he's not gonna sign there?

Talking with a knowledgeable friend who told me to watch the end of the season carefully. Fox can sign immediately after Harvard’s season is over and burn a year off his entry level contract by playing one game. If he doesn’t do that, he isn’t signing with Carolina. No advantage to hIm signing after the season.

At that point schools out for the Hurricanes. Brings your best offer.

 

[RangerBoy]

Goals below expectation is a luck stat and it pretty much says Hayes should be producing like a first liner. You used it to criticize him. Congrats.

Right.

There are people here who think Hayes is a first line center. They were here a few weeks before Hayes started playing like Hayes again.

Larry Brooks wants the Rangers to give Hayes $36M over 6 years and how the Rangers should go with Zibanejad/Hayes down the middle for the foreseeable future.

Hayes isn't a 1st line center.

Hayes is barely a top 50 center in the NHL.

Expectations aren't results and Hayes isn't some kid trying to find his way in the NHL. It's his 5th full NHL season.

Thanks for playing.

 

[RangerBoy]

What about his 12 assists? 17p in 28g. Trending for 50 points.

The goals will come. He won’t continue shooting 7%.

Cap will be 83m~ next year. 6m sounds about right for a two way center in his prime. I would move him.

Not sure where the hates coming from though on your end.

It's not hate.

Why is this board so immature?

Hayes isn't worth the type of contract he is demanding.

$6M should buy more than 50 points which would his career high in points.

Hopefully, Hayes gets his game back on track and the Rangers can max his trade value.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Goals below expectation is a luck stat and it pretty much says Hayes should be producing like a first liner. You used it to criticize him. Congrats.

Eh, this is a slippery slope. This argument was used in favor of Nash, when in reality, he wasn't "snakebitten," he just sucked at finishing. This is one of those stats that really does need the eye test.

FWIW though, I do think Hayes deserves a better fate regarding goal totals. I just think we should be careful with this particular stat.

 

[Pistachio]

People think trading him has already been decided. But after his comments last week when it sounded like he wants to leave, as reported by Cyrgalis, the Rangers asked him what he's talking about. That's interesting.

What he says is one thing, but I'm pretty sure if they actually offer him an extension he's going to take it.

I think what people need to remember about Zucc is that he really f***ing loves New York, and the Rangers especially. This is a player who took a pay cut so the team could keep Stepan. He was paid under his actual value so he could get a longer contract with the team.

If you look at people whos loyalty is to the club, Zuc and Hank are the two players who stand out. After so many years, I'm really surprised at the blaise attitude people have towards him. We're two months into a rebuild season, and people are talking like he's done as a hockey player.

I've watched approximately 500 games in the NHL. 460 of them being Rangers games. I'm from Norway, so yeah I'm a little biased, but Zuccarello and NYR is what got me into watching hockey. So he's the reason why NYR is "my team". So yeah I do get a little sad to see the casual atttitude americans have towards loyal players. Before getting into hockey, I was a soccer fan. In soccer, teams are their players, by en large. There isn't this capitalist trade culture that exists in the NHL, where players are always weighed against their value in a trade for a slightly better performing player that year.

Zuccarello isn't having a great season (it's only december....), but this is a guy who has year after year, even while people on this forum is calling for his trade, lead the Rangers in points.

17/18 - 53 pts - .66ppg (#1)
16/17 - 59 pts - .73ppg (#1)
15/16 - 61 pts - .75ppg (#1)
14/15 - 49pts - .62ppg (#5) (the year Nash was worth his money and first year of Vigneault)
13/14 - 59pts - .76ppg (#1)
12/13 - Lockout - 15 games played
2010+ - Tortorella era

He's stable... I literally remember the threads on this forum when he was coming here. "A decent third line winger" - ".5ppg would be a good result for him", yada yada.

And this is just his stats. When it comes to his off the ice performance, his leadership and general team-mateyness, he's one of the best in the league.

So again, even with my bias, I don't think there's any trade good enough to trade Zuc, not while he's actually performing. Especially during a rebuild - why get rid of the one guy who unilaterally is considered to be one of the most influential locker room players

 

[Blue Blooded]

Eh, this is a slippery slope. This argument was used in favor of Nash, when in reality, he wasn't "snakebitten," he just sucked at finishing. This is one of those stats that really does need the eye test.

FWIW though, I do think Hayes deserves a better fate regarding goal totals. I just think we should be careful with this particular stat.

Hayes has shot significantly above his expected 5v5 shooting percentage in each of his four full NHL seasons so far. Shooting significantly under it is an aberration.

 

[Machinehead]

Right.

There are people here who think Hayes is a first line center. They were here a few weeks before Hayes started playing like Hayes again.

Larry Brooks wants the Rangers to give Hayes $36M over 6 years and how the Rangers should go with Zibanejad/Hayes down the middle for the foreseeable future.

Hayes isn't a 1st line center.

Hayes is barely a top 50 center in the NHL.

Expectations aren't results and Hayes isn't some kid trying to find his way in the NHL. It's his 5th full NHL season.

Thanks for playing.

I never said he actually was a first line center, nor did I say we should sign him. I'm against it.

But when you can't even give the credit for having a solid season and twist analytics around that actually the opposite of what you're saying, it comes off as hate.

And honestly, it wouldn't be the first you've had it out for one of our players.

 

[Machinehead]

Eh, this is a slippery slope. This argument was used in favor of Nash, when in reality, he wasn't "snakebitten," he just sucked at finishing. This is one of those stats that really does need the eye test.

FWIW though, I do think Hayes deserves a better fate regarding goal totals. I just think we should be careful with this particular stat.

Fair point. Some guys are just bad at goals. Hell, the Carolina Hurricanes are an entire team bad at goals.

But as @Blue Blooded pointed out, this is weird for Hayes.

More importantly, it shouldn't be taken as a straight negative as the poster was implying.

 

[RGY]

I am not sure who RB is targeting here. There is a very small minority that have argued Hayes as a 1st line center. There is that same small quantity of people (may not be the exact same people) who want to re-sign Hayes. Its not a lot of people.

But are we not allowed to acknowledge he has played very well for the most part of this season? He may not have groundbreaking numbers but his play on the ice on both sides of the puck has been exceptional on a team devoid of real talent. I mean he still is a Ranger and it really is only helping his trade value.

I agree with @Machinehead, there is a lot of twisting of words going on lately. A lot of attack mode mentality for some reason.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Some hot takes:

Stan Bowman's team isn't doing bad with any one's intention. He didn't fire Q and make trades with the idea of doing worse. He is a bad GM and that is why they stink.

If we sign Hayes for $6m, then why did we trade Stepan?

If Zuccarello is the most influential person in the locker room, he needs to go ASAP. Too much complacency last year. Too content with blown leads. Not enough accountability. Turn that page quick.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Wait does he think expected goals means expected goals for a 1C?

Like Hayes is a 1, his expected goals is _____ bc this is a 1C

 

[Mikos87]

Some hot takes:

Stan Bowman's team isn't doing bad with any one's intention. He didn't fire Q and make trades with the idea of doing worse. He is a bad GM and that is why they stink.

If we sign Hayes for $6m, then why did we trade Stepan?

If Zuccarello is the most influential person in the locker room, he needs to go ASAP. Too much complacency last year. Too content with blown leads. Not enough accountability. Turn that page quick.

Bowman mismanaged the cap, and his scouts, who were excellent, are no longer the same group. CHI's model depended heavily on good cheap depth, and they haven't had that in a while. 3 Cups doesn't make him a bad GM. But they need a change.

Hayes- look I'm not in the boat of paying him $6M over term. I don't think the Rangers are either. Brooksie's always got a point that drives readership, this year it's this. Hayes isn't consistent enough to win with, and will garner a very nice return at the deadline which will help the Rangers a lot more than a long-term deal will. A bad Hayes contract comes at a very high opportunity cost, and I'm sure the Rangers get that.

I like your last point a lot. It was, not sure if it still is, but it definitely was too chummy in there for a few years. 15-17.... there wasn't enough accountability in that room. It didn't help that the coach was largely absent outside of games, practices and X&Os, but you can do that with a self sustaining locker room. The Rangers didn't have that, and need to build that again. So I definitely want changes, and trading out Zucc and Hayes will go a long way with that.

The team I look at and say, shit those guys play for one another, every shift, and every second on the ice is the WPG Jets. They built a culture and identity. When you watch that team, you see every guy chasing a puck, moving their feet, and the next man is there supporting them.

I see signs of that with Quinn, especially as he's shortening the bench.... but imagine if the bench didn't need to be shortened. Then you have a team with everyone that shows up. Moving Spooner was a good start, but I think they've got a few more heads to roll out for that to fully manifest.

 

[RGY]

I think what people need to remember about Zucc is that he really ****ing loves New York, and the Rangers especially. This is a player who took a pay cut so the team could keep Stepan. He was paid under his actual value so he could get a longer contract with the team.

If you look at people whos loyalty is to the club, Zuc and Hank are the two players who stand out. After so many years, I'm really surprised at the blaise attitude people have towards him. We're two months into a rebuild season, and people are talking like he's done as a hockey player.

I've watched approximately 500 games in the NHL. 460 of them being Rangers games. I'm from Norway, so yeah I'm a little biased, but Zuccarello and NYR is what got me into watching hockey. So he's the reason why NYR is "my team". So yeah I do get a little sad to see the casual atttitude americans have towards loyal players. Before getting into hockey, I was a soccer fan. In soccer, teams are their players, by en large. There isn't this capitalist trade culture that exists in the NHL, where players are always weighed against their value in a trade for a slightly better performing player that year.

Zuccarello isn't having a great season (it's only december....), but this is a guy who has year after year, even while people on this forum is calling for his trade, lead the Rangers in points.

17/18 - 53 pts - .66ppg (#1)
16/17 - 59 pts - .73ppg (#1)
15/16 - 61 pts - .75ppg (#1)
14/15 - 49pts - .62ppg (#5) (the year Nash was worth his money and first year of Vigneault)
13/14 - 59pts - .76ppg (#1)
12/13 - Lockout - 15 games played
2010+ - Tortorella era

He's stable... I literally remember the threads on this forum when he was coming here. "A decent third line winger" - ".5ppg would be a good result for him", yada yada.

And this is just his stats. When it comes to his off the ice performance, his leadership and general team-mateyness, he's one of the best in the league.

So again, even with my bias, I don't think there's any trade good enough to trade Zuc, not while he's actually performing. Especially during a rebuild - why get rid of the one guy who unilaterally is considered to be one of the most influential locker room players

The problem is you simply cannot compare European Soccer to the NHL. Not even just by culture. Its the way the league is setup. Salary Cap. Amateur Draft after every season to replenish your farm system. Contracts arent transferrable from team to team as long as you have money to pay for the transfer fee. You have 18 skaters and a Goalie every night. Soccer you have 10 and a Goalie with a 3 sub max. Construction of teams are different. Weighing salary vs player production is more critical with the NHL, again because of the cap which is in place to create parity. In Soccer, for the most part its the same dominant teams in each league every year as long as the Club Owners have Capital.

With all that said, I love what Zucc has brought to this team over the years. Love his effort and personality. Love it all. But its time to move on. He has been terrible this year and to be honest last year as well. Its not just about ppg production, its his overall play. He has been careless with the puck all too often. His defensive game, while never spectacular but definitely at the least average, has slipped. He has looked checked out since last season. His effort has dropped. Some games its just turnover after turnover.

Its just time to move on.

 

[kovazub94]

Right.

There are people here who think Hayes is a first line center. They were here a few weeks before Hayes started playing like Hayes again.

Larry Brooks wants the Rangers to give Hayes $36M over 6 years and how the Rangers should go with Zibanejad/Hayes down the middle for the foreseeable future.

Hayes isn't a 1st line center.

Hayes is barely a top 50 center in the NHL.

Expectations aren't results and Hayes isn't some kid trying to find his way in the NHL. It's his 5th full NHL season.

Thanks for playing.

Raise your hand if you think Hayes is a first line center?

 

[Lion Hound]

With Hayes and Zucc the team has two really likeable players who do play hard. That's why these guys have their own little following in the case of Zucc it's a cult following.

Problem is, the club has 4 contracts that already far exceed the players expectations. In addition, the clubs decision that the current core just wasn't good enough to get the job done. So why stop halfway through a rebuild by re-signing both of them? If the latter happens, the rebuild is over, stopped short and this club will be able to compete but I don't see them as any sort of a legit contender at this stage.

Hayes at $6.5 and Zucc at $6 is just not a smart business decision for the future of the NY Rangers.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think what people need to remember about Zucc is that he really ****ing loves New York, and the Rangers especially. This is a player who took a pay cut so the team could keep Stepan. He was paid under his actual value so he could get a longer contract with the team.

If you look at people whos loyalty is to the club, Zuc and Hank are the two players who stand out. After so many years, I'm really surprised at the blaise attitude people have towards him. We're two months into a rebuild season, and people are talking like he's done as a hockey player.

I've watched approximately 500 games in the NHL. 460 of them being Rangers games. I'm from Norway, so yeah I'm a little biased, but Zuccarello and NYR is what got me into watching hockey. So he's the reason why NYR is "my team". So yeah I do get a little sad to see the casual atttitude americans have towards loyal players. Before getting into hockey, I was a soccer fan. In soccer, teams are their players, by en large. There isn't this capitalist trade culture that exists in the NHL, where players are always weighed against their value in a trade for a slightly better performing player that year.

Zuccarello isn't having a great season (it's only december....), but this is a guy who has year after year, even while people on this forum is calling for his trade, lead the Rangers in points.

17/18 - 53 pts - .66ppg (#1)
16/17 - 59 pts - .73ppg (#1)
15/16 - 61 pts - .75ppg (#1)
14/15 - 49pts - .62ppg (#5) (the year Nash was worth his money and first year of Vigneault)
13/14 - 59pts - .76ppg (#1)
12/13 - Lockout - 15 games played
2010+ - Tortorella era

He's stable... I literally remember the threads on this forum when he was coming here. "A decent third line winger" - ".5ppg would be a good result for him", yada yada.

And this is just his stats. When it comes to his off the ice performance, his leadership and general team-mateyness, he's one of the best in the league.

So again, even with my bias, I don't think there's any trade good enough to trade Zuc, not while he's actually performing. Especially during a rebuild - why get rid of the one guy who unilaterally is considered to be one of the most influential locker room players

Lol oh boy...

He’s not the leader you think he is and he’s declining. This team will be fine without him.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Not sure why St. Louis would move Parayko with Pietrangelo a year and a half away from being a UFA.

agreed.

that team is a tire fire this year again and i think parayko has even been a healthy scratch.

you never know about those shake up moves. he would be a nice get though.

i was impressed with troubas game the other night too. dude is big, mobile and can play 200 ft game.

parayko and trouba are both nice adds....

 

[Larrybiv]

Zuc , Namestnikov and Buch back upfront .... that’s a whole top 6 line

A rather weak one at that. Coming back from injuries isnt anything close to automatically playing well.
Zucch has been having issues for what seems a month already.
Buch def needs that hand working 100%, or he will be less effective, and lets face it......he had been better, but sketchy in the consistent dept.
Names with that concussion......will he have his head on straight?