Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII What will Santa Gorton bring us?

[True Blue]

As you all know, I am a huge fan of Pionk's, but I can see this as well. He and DeAngelo are already somewhat redundant, especially with Shattenkirk here.

My first choice is a fantasy in which they actually find a way to deal Shattenkirk and keep both Pionk & DeAngelo for the near future. But I just do not see a big market for him. Don't know, maybe you guys are right and one goes. But keep having the feeling that they want to see how they will develop over next several years.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Why cant we keep both pionk and ADA, I dont get it?

 

[True Blue]

Why, whats so amazing about Kreider? He's basically somewhere between a 1st/2nd liner who takes stretches of games off.

This is what you see? The guy has developed into a legit top line player. No idea of what you are watching if this is what you have been seeing.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This is what you see? The guy has developed into a legit top line player. No idea of what you are watching if this is what you have been seeing.

60 point player. 1st line on this team, 2nd or 3rd on good teams.

 

[GAGLine]

At least we're first in something:

https://www.tsn.ca/forbes-leafs-habs-trail-rangers-in-value-1.1221269

But we can't trade Zucc because we'll lose money in jersey sales.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

This is what you see? The guy has developed into a legit top line player. No idea of what you are watching if this is what you have been seeing.

No, that's not what I see, I just typed it our for shit and giggles.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Kreider is to me what Kravstov is to @Amazing Kreiderman (with slightly less stalking). Watched him at Andover when I was at BC myself, hoped against the odds he would be the NYR’s guy. Watched him lead BC to 2 Nationals Championships. Watched him grow to the point where he is now, finally looking like he has put together all of the pieces and is consistently putting up the numbers we thought he was capable of all along.

But despite this deep bias I think it’s interesting and important to consider his future with the NYR. We all know his play can waiver a bit in terms of consistency. If he can get a foundational building block from a contender, do you think about it? I’m talking a Makar, Tolvanen (ship probably sailed), etc.

 

[True Blue]

50 point player. 1st line on this team, 2nd or 3rd on good teams.

Wow. There it is. Kreider is a third line player on good teams in the league. There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. I admit. I actually do not know how to respond to this.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Why, whats so amazing about Kreider? He's basically somewhere between a 1st/2nd liner who takes stretches of games off.

you think there's over 60 wings better than him?

He's tied for 7th in goals among wings, and 28th in 5v5 pts among wings this season.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

you think there's over 60 wings better than him?

He's tied for 7th in goals among wings, and 28th in 5v5 pts among wings this season.

Yea, he sure is racking up a few extra points with Zib having his breakout season, that's for sure. I still see a very lazy player half the time with Kreider.

 

[True Blue]

But despite this deep bias I think it’s interesting and important to consider his future with the NYR. We all know his play can waiver a bit in terms of consistency. If he can get a foundational building block from a contender, do you think about it? I’m talking a Makar, Tolvanen (ship probably sailed), etc.

I think that he is here on the other side of the rebuild as one of the leaders of this team and a hold on the top line. Along with Zbad.

 

[Ghost of jas]

you think there's over 60 wings better than him?

He's tied for 7th in goals among wings, and 28th in 5v5 pts among wings this season.

And is playing with a second line center. Again, if Hornqvist is a first liner, so is Kreider.

 

[Thirty One]

60 point player. 1st line on this team, 2nd or 3rd on good teams.

What year do you think it is?

 

[East Coast Bias]

Yea, he sure is racking up a few extra points with Zib having his breakout season, that's for sure. I still see a very lazy player half the time with Kreider.

At EV, he's played 194 mins with Hayes, 138 with Mika.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Wow. There it is. Kreider is a third line player on good teams in the league. There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. I admit. I actually do not know how to respond to this.

Over his career he gets .58 points per game that's including his hot start this year. Puts him at a 48 point guy. Had one big year but has been pretty average since.

 

[SA16]

Kreider has produced like a first line winger for years.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Kreider has produced like a first line winger for years.

On this team which hasnt had much to talk about in point production. Who was the last person we had in top 10 scoring?

 

[GAGLine]

1st round pick for Kevin Hayes

1st round pick for Mats Zuccarello

TB wins the Cup and the Rangers get the 31st pick in the draft. It's TB's Cup to lose.

Four 1st round picks in June.

The Rangers should trade Chris Kreider at the deadline in February. They can't go through another season where they have a key player on an expiring contract. The draft is kind of slow for trades. This trade deadline is the time.

It doesn't look like the Rangers will re-sign Hayes no matter how much Larry Brooks campaigns for the Rangers to pay Hayes.

The Rangers have had no discussions or very little discussions about re-signing Zuccarello.

Speaking of Hayes



Tableau Public

Scroll down to the bottom for a more complete list.

There's our boy Kevin

5 goals. $6M. Priceless.

Kreider is at the top of that list, yet you say we should trade him too. It seems kind of disingenuous to use it against Hayes if you aren't going to also give Kreider credit for his place on the list.

There's no reason that Kreider has to be traded at this deadline. Gorton has more than enough to keep him busy. If Kreider does get traded, it might be better for us if it happens at/prior to the draft, a la Stepan. Kreider could return a top 10 pick, but not if we trade him at the deadline.

 

[SA16]

On this team which hasnt had much to talk about in point production. Who was the last person we had in top 10 scoring?

No. Relative to the league. Not this team.

 

[East Coast Bias]

On this team which hasnt had much to talk about in point production. Who was the last person we had in top 10 scoring?

The last time a top 10 scoring winger was the definition of a 1st line winger was during the Original Six days.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Kreider is to me what Kravstov is to @Amazing Kreiderman (with slightly less stalking). Watched him at Andover when I was at BC myself, hoped against the odds he would be the NYR’s guy. Watched him lead BC to 2 Nationals Championships. Watched him grow to the point where he is now, finally looking like he has put together all of the pieces and is consistently putting up the numbers we thought he was capable of all along.

But despite this deep bias I think it’s interesting and important to consider his future with the NYR. We all know his play can waiver a bit in terms of consistency. If he can get a foundational building block from a contender, do you think about it? I’m talking a Makar, Tolvanen (ship probably sailed), etc.

Yeah it'd take a prospect/young player of that level+ other pieces for me to move Kreider.

There is no player who drives success for this team more than he does outside of Hank. No brainier to keep around unless someone decides that they want him more than we do.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

No. Relative to the league. Not this team.

At an average of .58 points a game? I dont think so.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

At an average of .58 points a game? I dont think so.

Since returning from surgery he's produced at a .75 ppg clip, thats over almost 50 games.

Considering that he played at least some of the first half of last season (who knows how much) pretty heavily compromised, I think its safe to say that this is a better indication of who he is, particularly in conjunction with the season he had before last season (where he was probably a 30 goal-60 point guy over a full season) and progression/playing in a system that suits his play (not that he was bad under AV, he wasn't)

 

[SA16]

At an average of .58 points a game? I dont think so.

Why are you only looking at points/game?

He also averages:

1.9707 Hits/game
0.8313 PIM/game
+0.1345/game
0.1491 FOW/game
0.3545 blocks/game
0.1467 PPP/game
2.1809 shots/game

You need to look at the whole picture.

For reference Johnny Gaudreau, who I'm sure you consider a 1st line wing, only averages 0.1971 hits/game and 0.2088 blocks/game. Pat Kane is barely any better with 0.2780 hits/game and 0.2271 blocks/game.

He's a complete player. They are one dimensional who provide nothing other than some goals and assists.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Since returning from surgery he's produced at a .75 ppg clip, thats over almost 50 games.

Considering that he played at least some of the first half of last season (who knows how much) pretty heavily compromised, I think its safe to say that this is a better indication of who he is, particularly in conjunction with the season he had before last season (where he was probably a 30 goal-60 point guy over a full season) and progression/playing in a system that suits his play (not that he was bad under AV, he wasn't)

He does that though, he's very streaky over his career, sometimes hes on fire and other weeks he is on the Milk box. I'm very doubtful he ends the year at .75.