Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVII - Want some, get some

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I think we are going to be getting 5-6 years of 70-90 point production from Panarin.

I harken back to the lack of NA hockey miles on his legs.

Hes 28 and has ONLY 4 full seasons under his belt while hes working on his 5th season.

Typical elite talent like him are playing from at the very least their age 20 season, most elite talents like this, from the age of 18.

I think he was a great signing and believe he will buck the trend of players fading once they hit 30yo

Also, his style translates a LOT better over 30 than does that of a Kreider, van Riemsdyk, etc. I was on the fence about the signing, but couldn’t be happier about it now.

(As for Trouba, it was a great deal then and it’s a great deal now.)

 

[MrPodz]

Thinking bout the future and present i came to a few conclusions: 1. Why would we trade buch? Hes good at even strength. 2. Kreider is gone but itd be interesting if they package deangelo for a really good piece back. Im just brainstorming but deangelo is rlly good offensively, an rfa, and kreider got his rep, i think we could maybe use this or a deal centered around say skjei, howden/andersson and a 2nd for a 1d, specifically i would rlly like hampus lindholm from ANA. Id even get rid of hajek and its not bc i dont like him, i do, i just think hes hitting some rookie walls rn and wont be hitting the stride til hes around 23 or 24, instead im looking at rykov. Im higher on rykov then most, but i think he comes next season as he recovers and adjusts. ALSO no one is talking about lauri pajuniemi, who is tearing up liiga rn, playing with Tps, kakkos old team i believe. As for top 6, i think we trade both deangelo and someone else for a top 6 player, and it wouldnt surprise me bc look at whats gonna happen. On the left: panarin, lemeuix, mckegg. On the right: buch, kakko, fast, etc. Without kreider-no we should not resign regardless of the contract-we are pretty barren on the left. If i was gorton, id say we need a 2LW, a 3RW or a 1RW, and a 1Ld. If deangelo gets traded, i think joey keane gets a look. Looking towards next year, id advocate buyout staal for pennies and trade smith (no nmc so id say we could cap dump him if its only a one year contract.) I also would resign fast as a FOURTH LINER, nothing more. There is hope of kravstov making an impact, but i think hes too raw, super skilled but too raw. Good news is he cant go back to russia next year so its ahl or nyr. Regarding georgie and shesterkin, now would be a good time to call him up to see how he plays before georgie becomes waiver eligible. If georgie gets outplayed, and i feel he will because hes good but inconsistent, we could package him for a bigger return. The time for picks is useless unless u use those picks u recieved for more trades. Id say we are now looking for pieces, i also think ruff gets fired after the season, the only concern is he uses the young d as a cover for their defensive inefficiencies. FINALLY, some things id change: for the d id say more aggressive in the blue line, as in trouba hit and pinch the wingers on the board. We need more size on d, like a colton parykoesque player- those are hard to find. As for offensive, id look for a shootfurst player and watch and enjoy the progress. LGR, sorry for the long post, but wanted to compile all my thoughts.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I’ve been told first hand that ticket revenue is way down.

That is a surprise. I would guess companies are cutting down on "client spending".

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I’d pin Kreider’s actual worth at around $4m x 4 years. He’s obviously going to get way more, but that would be my best offer in New York.

I'd be fine giving him $6-7MM at that term. But that's as far as I'm willing to go. Any more in terms of years, whatever the AAV, and I'm out.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I hope you are correct for the Rangers sake. The Panarin contract is basically a signing bonus contract. $74.5M of the $81.5M is in signing bonus money. Buyout proof contract.

I have heard the lack of NA hockey miles with Zuccarello. He can play until his mid to late 30's at a high level because he began his NA career at 22/23. He looked bad last season at 31. Injuries started to creep in with a groin injury he struggled to return from. He looks worse this season at 32. He is on pace for the worst season of his career. We heard the lack of NA miles on him as a justification for giving him a contract extension. Good luck to Minnesota.

I understand the concern, RB, but there are a lot of differences between the players/situations:

1) Panarin signed this contract at the equivalent age that Zucc signed his last contract (i.e. the 4 year deal with the Rangers back in '15-'16), so effectively, you'd be looking at year 5 out of 7 right now.

2) Minnesota is a disaster. Prior to the rebuild, we liked to complain about avoiding the "dreaded middle". Well, we never had any idea what the dreaded middle was. Minnesota is the dreaded middle. And will be for years to come given the contracts they've handed out.

3) Zucc is tiny. Panarin is a normal sized dude (and in phenomenal shape to boot).

4) Zucc suffered a freak horrific injury with that slapshot he took to the head. We'll never know how that might have affected his progress, and what lingering effects it may have now. Panarin, meanwhile, to the best of my knowledge has never suffered a major injury of any kind. (Knock wood.)

5) Perhaps most importantly, Zucc essentially flat lined as a 60-point player in his age 26 season (i.e. two years before signing his last deal with the Rangers); Panarin is firmly set as an 80+ point player, and his production has only gone up every year he's been in the league, but for his second (and this year is trending toward 100+).

As I've admitted repeatedly, I was on the fence with about the signing before it happened, but now that he's here and I see what he's doing, I've got no regrets whatsoever.

 

[JimmyG89]

Newhook was selected at 16. That's not high, its literally the middle. We could get a low 1st + for Kreider and the same for Skjei depending on the recipient.

The valuation of the #16 pick vs the valuation of a specific player, even if they got picked in that same spot is different. There is also the factor that the player would be a year closer to making an NHL impact. A year of development is an investment to a team.

Let's not even mention that Colorado could have given us that pick, but said no because Newhook was there. Internally, they could have had him as a top 10 pick. Some teams likely did.

Then you mention Skjei and is he really an upgrade to Zadorov or Girard? Not really, if he is even that. He's better than Ryan Graves though. Newhook is not going to be available in a deal. We don't have a piece, unless you're trying to trade Zibanejad, that would net someone like Newhook+ in return.

 

[NYR Viper]

Fischer is okay; Crouse would be a disappointment as the best piece coming back in a Kreider trade

If either of those guys is coming back it's as a secondary piece like Lemieux last year. The ARI 1st would be the other main piece

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I'd be fine giving him $6-7MM at that term. But that's as far as I'm willing to go. Any more in terms of years, whatever the AAV, and I'm out.

$6.5 x 5 is fair for both parties. No idea if they think it is, but I could live with that contract.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

There is something to be said about the JD connection to CBJ and the optics of it all as the perfect trade partners.

CBJ went for it last season and traded a lot from the cupboard while also watching their Goalie and best Forward walk. They are team that is certainly getting older with guys like Foligno, Dubinsky, heck even Atkinson. They are trending in the wrong direction and need to maybe consider transitioning to a rebuild. They need to at least restock assets.

The Rangers have stocked a lot of prospects and picks. They are on the rise.

JD knows what that organization’s strength and weaknesses are. There is a match there.

This doesn't make sense to me. You're talking like the Rangers are on the brink of a cup run, not less than 2 years into a rebuild. BOTH teams should prize younger players.

I don't see a match with CBJ, unless it's more of a "hockey trade" position of strength for position of strength move, or a change of scenery for a change of scenery move.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

We should not have any kind of leadership issue. Zibanejad, Panarin, Trouba, Hank, Staal, and I believe Fast will be back on another short deal for a few seasons. That should not be the reason to keep Kreider.

The other guys will be pushed into more leader type rolls too as they get more comfortable.

Agreed – though I see Staal being bought out.

A guy like Trouba is a good example in regards to your last point. Viewed as a "kid" on WPG and relegated to a support role due to his position behind Buff. Coming to the Rangers to be the 1st pair RD, suddenly he's got a voice in the locker room.

 

[LokiDog]

I understand the concern, RB, but there are a lot of differences between the players/situations:

1) Panarin signed this contract at the equivalent age that Zucc signed his last contract (i.e. the 4 year deal with the Rangers back in '15-'16), so effectively, you'd be looking at year 5 out of 7 right now.

2) Minnesota is a disaster. Prior to the rebuild, we liked to complain about avoiding the "dreaded middle". Well, we never had any idea what the dreaded middle was. Minnesota is the dreaded middle. And will be for years to come given the contracts they've handed out.

3) Zucc is tiny. Panarin is a normal sized dude (and in phenomenal shape to boot).

4) Zucc suffered a freak horrific injury with that slapshot he took to the head. We'll never know how that might have affected his progress, and what lingering effects it may have now. Panarin, meanwhile, to the best of my knowledge has never suffered a major injury of any kind. (Knock wood.)

5) Perhaps most importantly, Zucc essentially flat lined as a 60-point player in his age 26 season (i.e. two years before signing his last deal with the Rangers); Panarin is firmly set as an 80+ point player, and his production has only gone up every year he's been in the league, but for his second (and this year is trending toward 100+).

As I've admitted repeatedly, I was on the fence with about the signing before it happened, but now that he's here and I see what he's doing, I've got no regrets whatsoever.

I was very luke warm about the signing. It wasn’t the AAV because I knew he was going to put up points but I’d never loved him as a player. It turns out I just hadn’t paid close enough attention because I’ve totally warmed up to him and love him on this team. I agree with everything you wrote about his “miles” and he’s also simply an elite player. Zucc never was. Loved Zucc, and he was very good but we’re talking about a totally different breed here. Panarin is a thoroughbred.

 

[LokiDog]

If either of those guys is coming back it's as a secondary piece like Lemieux last year. The ARI 1st would be the other main piece

That’s exactly what I’m thinking. Those are both guys who could still put up some points and slot around the lineup and bring some snarl. Just like the Lemieux trade. Young bottom six physical player with upside and a 1st.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I think Lias is going to be traded at some point by the deadline in a package deal.

Can see this as well. Lots of options.

But a change of scenery does seem to be in order. Especially with Kravtsov now having what may prove to be a setback year, I think you want to minimize the number of top prospects who need to be "righted" in one organization.

 

[LokiDog]

Agreed – though I see Staal being bought out.

A guy like Trouba is a good example in regards to your last point. Viewed as a "kid" on WPG and relegated to a support role due to his position behind Buff. Coming to the Rangers to be the 1st pair RD, suddenly he's got a voice in the locker room.

Between Z, Panarin, Trouba, probably Fast, one more year of Lundqvist, and guys like Lemieux/Skjei and even DeAngelo I see some developing leadership qualities in, we should be fine. We also still may end up with a veteran as part of a return in a Strome/Kreider trade. Not all of the holes on the roster will be filled internally. It just won’t pan out that way. If nothing else adding the right vets just to address our 4th line would be smart and help in the room.

 

[UnSandvich]

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For those of you who don't know much about advanced stats/analytics in hockey, but want to know more, these articles do an excellent job of explaining things:

Part 1: An advanced stat primer: Understanding basic hockey metrics

Part 2: Hockey advanced stats primer, Part 2: How can (and should)...

 

[Kovalev27]

Look we now pretty much know the organization was willing to move Lias for another organization’s underachieving former top 10 pick. Not a cant miss prospect, Not for a too good to be true offer.

That says all you need to know about how they feel about him at this point. I’d be surprised if he’s here next year.

Kravtsov in the other hand is way to high skilled high upside to just let fail. They have to figure this out. This isn’t the case of a kid that doesn’t have the goods. Or the IQ. This is a kid that needs to get his head out of his ass. DeAngelo let this happen to him and he was able to right himself. Buchnevich to a degree also has figured out how to become a pro and I think he’s reaching his ceiling now that we all knew was there.

I know it goes against the earn it thing but I think we need to get Kravtsov to NY. Not Hartford.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I would be fine with ARI 1st and Fischer. Dont want Crouse at all. Garland or Dvorak isnt happening.

 

[True Blue]

I agree with you but I do feel that the appeal of having Mackinnon on one line and Hall on the next, barring Sakic balking at price, is too much to pass up. You’re talking two MVP level players who are absolute physical work horses.

I think it all depends if Sakic is willing to push all of his chips to the table and go all in.

If that were to go through I could see St Louis and Arizona being heavily in on Kreider though. Outside shot for Edmonton IF Kreider would sign there. Not sure a rental would be in Edmonton’s wheelhouse

I would think that Boston would also be a logical landing point.

This has absolutely no chance of happening, but Krieder would also look pretty good riding shotgun to Crosby in the playoffs. But no chance.

 

[Avery16]

Then you mention Skjei and is he really an upgrade to Zadorov or Girard? Not really, if he is even that. He's better than Ryan Graves though. Newhook is not going to be available in a deal. We don't have a piece, unless you're trying to trade Zibanejad, that would net someone like Newhook+ in return.

none of us know what or who Colorado values. That proposal is a shot in the dark. But yes, Skjei is an upgrade on Zadorov. I don’t think they’re going to qualify Zadorov after this season. Skjei would be Colorado’s 1LD, a young one, and the only one other than Girard locked down to term.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

@NYR Viper brought up Jost earlier in the thread as well. I think he makes a lot of sense as a target given the age, pedigree, and position he's in with the Avs. I don't think he'd be coming with a 1st attached to him, but a 3rd with a condition to make it a higher pick could be a gamble that's appealing to the Rangers. You already know Jost is a useful NHL player. The question is just how good of an NHLer can he be?

See, and this is why I'm not sold on him as the principal piece in return. What's his upside? He looks like he's trending toward smallish middle-six player (with concussion concerns). Given the choice, I'd rather the 1st rounder + prospect/player who may bring other dimensions. (e.g. I much prefer the Hayes return (1st + Lemieux) over Jost + a lesser pick.)

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Kravtsov is the 13thF today for Traktor, at what point can the Rangers come in and just try to pull him from there. What is the approach here and what sort of influence do the Rangers have in this scenario.

 

[LokiDog]

See, and this is why I'm not sold on him as the principal piece in return. What's his upside? He looks like he's trending toward smallish middle-six player (with concussion concerns). Given the choice, I'd rather the 1st rounder + prospect/player who may bring other dimensions. (e.g. I much prefer the Hayes return (1st + Lemieux) over Jost + a lesser pick.)

I agree with this whole heartedly. Jost was rushed and doesn’t look to have a next step right now. He may yet develop but he’s not a very exciting add for this roster. He doesn’t bring anything we’re missing. If the return was Jost + 3rd I’d shop elsewhere.

 

[kovazub94]

Not me.

20 impacts the game when hes not posting points.

89, not so much

With all due respect this is bullshit or you're talking about pre-2019 Buchnevich.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Why are people still anti-Buch, he's fantastic even when not putting up points. He's literally top 3 on the team in GAR.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Kravtsov is the 13thF today for Traktor, at what point can the Rangers come in and just try to pull him from there. What is the approach here and what sort of influence do the Rangers have in this scenario.

Not much to be done unless the team wants to call him up to the Rangers. Which they shouldn't and won't

Unfortunately this situation will just have to play itself out for the time being. And when his season is over in Feb, he can come back to Hartford and hopefully end the year strong