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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVII

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Machinehead said:
All this time our project has been about gamebreaking talent, gamebreaking talent, gamebreaking talent. At least on HF, that's been the talk. Crosby, Malkin, Oveckin, Backstrom, Kane, Toews, Keith, Doughty, Kopitar, Bergeron, Chara. That wins Stanley Cups. Hall of Famers in multiple positions. There's our formula.

Suddenly, St. Louis wins it. I look at that roster and it's a good roster, but I'm sorry, it blows me away about as much as a light breeze.

ROR is an excellent 200 foot center, but he's not Crosby, Malkin, Backstrom, Kopitar. He's not even Jonathan Toews. Outstanding playoffs, but the guy got hot exactly the right week.

Pietrangelo? Great defenseman. Not an all-time great. Not Doughty, not Keith, not Karlsson. He rates comparably to McDonagh before the injuries.

Tarasenko? There's piercing quality in his game, but his numbers are just very good. By no means did he have an outstanding postseason.

Again, all of them excellent, but none are legit world class. None of them are on their way to the Hall of Fame unless they pocket a couple more of these things.

I'm not making this post to put down the Blues. They did it, and they did it their way. My point is, this proves once and for all that there is no magic recipe.

There's some general ideas, but largely, you need to have your own plan and execute it. You don't build the best team and win the Stanley Cup. You build the best version of YOUR team at the right time and win the Stanley Cup.

Neither Gorton nor Quinn have talked about constructing a world-beating roster. All the talk has been about building a certain kind of team. That doesn't mean it's definitely the right idea or will definitely work, but it's a good start.
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Wait wait wait
So 6 years later are you agreeing that

‘Anything can happen’

;)

(Your totally right, by the way)
 
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effen said:
I edited my post above, but I thought it was assumed your post was about Colin Miller going [somewhere, presumably here] and like, they can't even take back Pionk.
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They are in a tough spot.

If Smith or JAM were a year or two younger i would be interested in taking them back. Right now i dont know. Smith has 3 more years @ $5 mil, JAM has 5 more years @ $5 mil. Would rather save that money to pay our kids when they are due their 2nd contracts.
 
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We were kicking it around in the draft thread, but the Rangers could definitely help Vegas out with their cap situation. They'd also walk away with a valuable piece in Miller who could be shopped to a team in need of a RHD but needs to offset salary in the deal.

Clarkson, Miller, #17 for Pionk and #20. They gain cap flexibility and get a guy who still has some upside in his development and fills a similar role to what they're giving up in Miller. Rangers then have a more valuable RHD in Miller to shop in a trade. Doubt Miller would remain in NY unless one of Shattenkirk or ADA was moved.

They don't solve all of their cap issues with the trade, but Vegas gets much needed flexibility without losing too much impact to the NHL roster.
 
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Trxjw said:
We were kicking it around in the draft thread, but the Rangers could definitely help Vegas out with their cap situation. They'd also walk away with a valuable piece in Miller who could be shopped to a team in need of a RHD but needs to offset salary in the deal.

Clarkson, Miller, #17 for Pionk and #20. They gain cap flexibility and get a guy who still has some upside in his development and fills a similar role to what they're giving up in Miller. Rangers then have a more valuable RHD in Miller to shop in a trade. Doubt Miller would remain in NY unless one of Shattenkirk or ADA was moved.

They don't solve all of their cap issues with the trade, but Vegas gets much needed flexibility without losing too much impact to the NHL roster.
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Agree... if something like that does happen, maybe TOR could be a partner to flip Miller for someone like Kapanen.
 
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@Trxjw nailed the kind of deal I had in mind as soon as I read @bobbop's post. We take on Miller and Clarkson's contract to move up three spots. Pionk also gives Vegas a bottom pairing/7th defenseman option that can be bridged and signed cheaply for the next couple of years. I just hope that Montreal takes Lavoie at #15 to save the Rangers from themselves. Reading the tea leaves, I think he's a real possibility with wherever the second 1st rounder ends up.

There are a lot of teams drafting between 8th and 15th that are under a lot of pressure from ownership and fans to compete and make the playoffs sooner rather than later. I still think there's a match in there somewhere for Kreider. Kreider at 50% retained for a pick in that range straight up. Add a conditional 2021 2nd going to the Rangers if Kreider signs an extension wherever he's dealt. The Rangers give up a 2021 3rd rounder if Kreider does not extend.

Use that pick to nab whichever USNTP forward falls. There will be at least one that does. If a team reaches for another defenseman after Byram within the top 10, that pushes an American kid further down. It would fit what the Rangers would want to (reportedly) do in being aggressive to add another top end talent this draft. Say Kreider goes to Arizona for the 14th overall. Do that deal with Vegas and you have the 14th and 17th overall picks. Use the #14 and Dallas' 2nd to trade up and nab the falling American (Caufield, Zegras, most likely Boldy), and still keep the #17 and take a defenseman.
 
I Eat Crow said:
@Trxjw nailed the kind of deal I had in mind as soon as I read @bobbop's post. We take on Miller and Clarkson's contract to move up three spots. Pionk also gives Vegas a bottom pairing/7th defenseman option that can be bridged and signed cheaply for the next couple of years. I just hope that Montreal takes Lavoie at #15 to save the Rangers from themselves. Reading the tea leaves, I think he's a real possibility with wherever the second 1st rounder ends up.

There are a lot of teams drafting between 8th and 15th that are under a lot of pressure from ownership and fans to compete and make the playoffs sooner rather than later. I still think there's a match in there somewhere for Kreider. Kreider at 50% retained for a pick in that range straight up. Add a conditional 2021 2nd going to the Rangers if Kreider signs an extension wherever he's dealt. The Rangers give up a 2021 3rd rounder if Kreider does not extend.

Use that pick to nab whichever USNTP forward falls. There will be at least one that does. If a team reaches for another defenseman after Byram within the top 10, that pushes an American kid further down. It would fit what the Rangers would want to (reportedly) do in being aggressive to add another top end talent this draft. Say Kreider goes to Arizona for the 14th overall. Do that deal with Vegas and you have the 14th and 17th overall picks. Use the #14 and Dallas' 2nd to trade up and nab the falling American (Caufield, Zegras, most likely Boldy), and still keep the #17 and take a defenseman.
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Which tea leaves?

The only place I've seen him going to NY was on the athletic mock which came from Carp.
 
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ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Which tea leaves?

The only place I've seen him going to NY was on the athletic mock which came from Carp.
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Prospect gurus and some posters here in the know have alluded to the Rangers taking a big swing with their second 1st rounder if they stay at #20 and going for some "safer" players in the 2nd round. Lavoie certainly fits that profile. A player like Hoglander or Dorofyev could certainly be under that classification too, and I would prefer them to Lavoie.

Idk man, Lavoie just screams pre-NYR Benoit Pouliot to me.
 
Machinehead said:
Ok so let's talk about believing in something.

You know what I want? I want teams to be up all night before a game at MSG. I don't know how we establish that culture, but that's what I want.

The Blues were road warriors and I respect that. Again, there's no set way to do it. But I want teams to fear MSG.

Coming to New York City to play a hockey game is like going to ****ing Fuddruckers. It's embarrassing.

That's the thing I want to change about Rangers culture.
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Lol'ed at Fuddrucker's too. It's been years since I've seen one around here.

Though I wouldn't partake personally, I would be all for having some NYR ultras shooting off fireworks in front of the visiting team's hotel at 2 or 3 am the night before they play at MSG.
 
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I Eat Crow said:
Prospect gurus and some posters here in the know have alluded to the Rangers taking a big swing with their second 1st rounder if they stay at #20 and going for some "safer" players in the 2nd round. Lavoie certainly fits that profile. A player like Hoglander or Dorofyev could certainly be under that classification too, and I would prefer them to Lavoie.

Idk man, Lavoie just screams pre-NYR Benoit Pouliot to me.
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rangers almost never take players out of the Q
 
I Eat Crow said:
Prospect gurus and some posters here in the know have alluded to the Rangers taking a big swing with their second 1st rounder if they stay at #20 and going for some "safer" players in the 2nd round. Lavoie certainly fits that profile. A player like Hoglander or Dorofyev could certainly be under that classification too, and I would prefer them to Lavoie.

Idk man, Lavoie just screams pre-NYR Benoit Pouliot to me.
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I’d be really really surprised if the Rangers took Lavoie
 
GeorgeKaplan said:
I’d be really really surprised if the Rangers took Lavoie
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Leetch3 said:
rangers almost never take players out of the Q
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They haven't taken a 1st rounder out of the Q since the 1970's. I hope that you guys are right and that trend continues.......

....but then stops next year after taking Lafreniere 1st overall next year :)
 
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I Eat Crow said:
Prospect gurus and some posters here in the know have alluded to the Rangers taking a big swing with their second 1st rounder if they stay at #20 and going for some "safer" players in the 2nd round. Lavoie certainly fits that profile. A player like Hoglander or Dorofyev could certainly be under that classification too, and I would prefer them to Lavoie.

Idk man, Lavoie just screams pre-NYR Benoit Pouliot to me.
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Eh I don't know that really screams Lavoie. There are a bunch of guys who would categorize as big swings.
 
Trxjw said:
The logical part of me knows it's almost impossible, but I'd love to know if there's enough cap savings the Rangers could offer up to Vegas in order to get them to part with Cody Glass.
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Might’ve had a better chance if they didn’t already trade Brannstrom and Suzuki, I’d assume he’s as untouchable as it gets from their POV
 
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Man, Vegas cap situation is pretty bad at the moment. At the cap with 19 players signed and William Karlsson as a unsigned RFA.
 
ZuccsFluffierFluffer said:
Miller would quickly be hated here. Toolsy as hell but dumb as rocks.
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This is what I gather reading what Vegas fans say. Similar frustration factor to Brendan Smith. I also believe Gallant benched him a bunch. Probably Vegas would be happy to unload him.
 
Is San Jose really giving Karlsson $88M? Really?

The Sharks and Karlsson continue to work at a contract extension, according to a league source. The belief is that the Sharks are prepared to offer the two-time Norris Trophy winner an eight-year contract somewhere in the vicinity of the eight-year, $88 million contract that Kings defenseman Drew Doughty signed last summer.

The Sharks are the only team that can offer Karlsson eight years. After July 1 and the start of the free-agency signing period, the maximum term Karlsson could sign with any team is for seven years.

It’s possible that the market for the 29-year-old Karlsson has cooled a bit since the defenseman struggled with a pair of groin injuries over the second half of the regular season and into the playoffs, when it was evident that he was not playing at 100 percent. He had surgery on May 31, according to a statement released by the Sharks.
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It was reported Karlsson and Doug Wilson had dinner together on Wednesday.

Someone took a picture of Doug Wilson and Karlsson posing with the waiter outside the restaurant.

Tampa Bay is on his list. Elliotte Friedman said SJ was confident at the scouting combine that they are going to sign Karlsson. Karlsson likes TB but what happens if they can't work out the numbers in TB.

San Jose is nice.

wilsonkarlsson.jpg
 
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