Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVII

[Leetch3]

All this time our project has been about gamebreaking talent, gamebreaking talent, gamebreaking talent. At least on HF, that's been the talk. Crosby, Malkin, Oveckin, Backstrom, Kane, Toews, Keith, Doughty, Kopitar, Bergeron, Chara. That wins Stanley Cups. Hall of Famers in multiple positions. There's our formula.

Suddenly, St. Louis wins it. I look at that roster and it's a good roster, but I'm sorry, it blows me away about as much as a light breeze.

ROR is an excellent 200 foot center, but he's not Crosby, Malkin, Backstrom, Kopitar. He's not even Jonathan Toews. Outstanding playoffs, but the guy got hot exactly the right week.

Pietrangelo? Great defenseman. Not an all-time great. Not Doughty, not Keith, not Karlsson. He rates comparably to McDonagh before the injuries.

Tarasenko? There's piercing quality in his game, but his numbers are just very good. By no means did he have an outstanding postseason.

Again, all of them excellent, but none are legit world class. None of them are on their way to the Hall of Fame unless they pocket a couple more of these things.

I'm not making this post to put down the Blues. They did it, and they did it their way. My point is, this proves once and for all that there is no magic recipe.

There's some general ideas, but largely, you need to have your own plan and execute it. You don't build the best team and win the Stanley Cup. You build the best version of YOUR team at the right time and win the Stanley Cup.

Neither Gorton nor Quinn have talked about constructing a world-beating roster. All the talk has been about building a certain kind of team. That doesn't mean it's definitely the right idea or will definitely work, but it's a good start.

the blues winning changes literally nothing for anyone with even the smallest club about building a team. literally no one with a clue has claimed there is only one way to build a team, its about picking the way that seems to have the most chance for success. everyone knows you can find talent outside the top 5 and that you can win without a mega elite player. but look at the % of teams that have won with those guys and the % of those guys taken at the top of the draft, the blues winning or kucherov being picked in the 2nd round makes those things possible, it doesn't make them likely...

and that ship has already sailed...the rangers are already committed to the path that they have choosen...the house has already been bulldozed, alternate ways to have remodeled the home without knocking it down are a little late

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Ok so let's talk about believing in something.

You know what I want? I want teams to be up all night before a game at MSG. I don't know how we establish that culture, but that's what I want.

The Blues were road warriors and I respect that. Again, there's no set way to do it. But I want teams to fear MSG.

Coming to New York City to play a hockey game is like going to ****ing Fuddruckers. It's embarrassing.

That's the thing I want to change about Rangers culture.

First off, lol at Fuddruckers.

But I agree. I want them to build the type of team that is going to take a massive piece out of you if you get by them in the playoffs to the point where you're getting swept in the next round.

I'm going to save myself from a rant and just say that @GeorgeKaplan nailed it.

 

[Machinehead]

Those are the years that they won the Stanley Cup.

Fair point

 

[Leetch3]

We can sign a UFA Dman if we feel we need one, I dont think trading assets for Trouba makes sense at this point. Right now it looks there could be a decent amount of UFA dmen on the market.

whether or not you think trouba is the guy or worth the price is a different debate, but if we are after him it isn't just because we need a body on defense that you could just sign some random UFA instead. we don't need bodies on the blueline, if anything we have too many guys. if you are going after trouba its because you believe that he can be a core piece of the future. He would be to the blueline what Mika is to the forwards...if you don't think he's THAT guy fine, but you aren't getting that with some random ufa imo

 

[Avery16]

the blues winning changes literally nothing for anyone with even the smallest club about building a team. literally no one with a clue has claimed there is only one way to build a team, its about picking the way that seems to have the most chance for success. everyone knows you can find talent outside the top 5 and that you can win without a mega elite player. but look at the % of teams that have won with those guys and the % of those guys taken at the top of the draft, the blues winning or kucherov being picked in the 2nd round makes those things possible, it doesn't make them likely...

and that ship has already sailed...the rangers are already committed to the path that they have choosen...the house has already been bulldozed, alternate ways to have remodeled the home without knocking it down are a little late

Hasn’t been mentioned here just how many bad contracts the Blues moved out recently. Theirs wasn’t a rebuild as much as a retool that caught some breaks. Part of acquiring ROR and Schenn was Buffalo and Philly taking on Berglund, Sobotka and Lehtera. They also moved on from Stastny, Reaves, Shattenkirk, and Elliott for significant futures.

They caught some breaks on Binnington and Berube, but they also made some unforced errors in moving Oshie, Ben Bishop for nothing, and choosing Allen and Miller and Elliott over Hutton, Halak, Bishop. Hiring Yeo.

They drafted well, they traded mostly brilliantly, and they made smart, frugal depth UFA buys that had high impact. There are some things we have in common with this. Now we need to catch the breaks.

 

[bobbop]

A few things I’ve heard...

Oilers very high on Peyton Krebs. Not sure if the injury changes anything. Good source.

Rangers continue to talk to Vegas (don’t know about what) I posted this before the trade deadline and heard today talks still going on. Unfortunately that’s all my guy has,

Looks like the prospect of new ownership will allow Coyotes to spend money this year. Targeting Hayes or Duchene. They did inquire about trading for Duchene before he was moved to Columbus last year.

I was asked on other thread about speculating further so I thought best to move this conversation over here.

I don’t know what the Rangers are talking to Vegas about but I can speculate it’s Colin Miller and David Clarkson. Vegas seems to have a pretty solid top nine and Cody Glass coming. Their defensive mix was off for a lot of the year. If Miller is on the table (as has been rumored) he could be on the Rangers list as a Trouba fallback option. Clarkson is interesting because while he is LTIR, his contract is only partially insured and Vegas has to pay him $3.25MM this season. Vegas is really against the cap. The Rangers can help here. Another poster mentioned that Vegas picks #17 and that certainly represents a trade up opportunity for the Rangers.

As for the Coyotes, I’m hearing lots of optimism about the new owner. Everyone in the organization is pumped. If they have cash available to spend, they have cap room available. Right now, they have a lot of middle of the road centers but no real top liners. They hope Hayton can fill that role eventually but short term they need a center. A while ago I heard Stepan was being shopped around but I still think they want to add. If they have $ to spend, they may also be active in the trade market. (Paging Chris Kreider) A Hayes/Kreider combination in Arizona is very possible.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

I was asked on other thread about speculating further so I thought best to move this conversation over here.

I don’t know what the Rangers are talking to Vegas about but I can speculate it’s Colin Miller and David Clarkson. Vegas seems to have a pretty solid top nine and Cody Glass coming. Their defensive mix was off for a lot of the year. If Miller is on the table (as has been rumored) he could be on the Rangers list as a Trouba fallback option. Clarkson is interesting because while he is LTIR, his contract is only partially insured and Vegas has to pay him $3.25MM this season. Vegas is really against the cap. The Rangers can help here. Another poster mentioned that Vegas picks #17 and that certainly represents a trade up opportunity for the Rangers.

As for the Coyotes, I’m hearing lots of optimism about the new owner. Everyone in the organization is pumped. If they have cash available to spend, they have cap room available. Right now, they have a lot of middle of the road centers but no real top liners. They hope Hayton can fill that role eventually but short term they need a center. A while ago I heard Stepan was being shopped around but I still think they want to add. If they have $ to spend, they may also be active in the trade market. (Paging Chris Kreider) A Hayes/Kreider combination in Arizona is very possible.

Even with the Clarkson contract what would Miller cost us?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Doug Armstrong should get a ton of credit.

He moved Shattenkirk while the Blues were in a playoff spot - this is the type of move that never happens and that trade returned Sanford (who was a contributor for this team) plus a 1st, which they packaged with other pieces for Schenn.

And as @Avery16 mentioned they moved Berglund (former Blues 1st rounder) Thompson (another former Blues 1st rounder) Sobotka and their own 1st this year (LOL at Buffalo getting pick 31, most Sabres thing ever) for ROR.

When people scoff at trading assets for players when this team has their foundation set in place rather than splurging on UFA's, I'm going to point to this.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Even with the Clarkson contract what would Miller cost us?

Can't imagine it would be much.

Vegas isn't very fond of him.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Can't imagine it would be much.

Vegas isn't very fond of him.

I just have no idea what his value would be, not sure i want to give up too much if we will be buying out Clarkson for them...

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Shattenkirk @ 50%, 2nd round pick for Miller, Clarkson, #17

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I just have no idea what his value would be, not sure i want to give up too much if we will be buying out Clarkson for them...

I'd give them Pionk and I'd also want to swap 1sts.

Miller would quickly be hated here. Toolsy as hell but dumb as rocks.

 

[Irishguy42]

I'd give them Pionk and I'd also want to swap 1sts.

Miller would quickly be hated here. Toolsy as hell but dumb as rocks.

So, same as the last Miller?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

So, same as the last Miller?

According to a certain poster, also like the next Miller

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

So, same as the last Miller?

The Bozo returns.

 

[effen]

I'd give them Pionk and I'd also want to swap 1sts.

Miller would quickly be hated here. Toolsy as hell but dumb as rocks.

YOLO

 

[bobbop]

Even with the Clarkson contract what would Miller cost us?

Don't know. It won't be Shattenkirk. Part of the Knights strategy with Miller is getting under the cap. He's a quasi salary dump for them.

 

[RGY]

Don't know. It won't be Shattenkirk. Part of the Knights strategy with Miller is getting under the cap. He's a quasi salary dump for them.

Who do you think is involved?

 

[NernieBichols]

Regarding Ivy League standards

1st off: for something NHL relevant. Oliver wahlstrom declared early for Harvard, there was talk it was scaring teams at the top of the draft start envisioning the vesey/fox route if he didn’t want to play for the team.
Wahlstrom didn’t end up getting in and is now either at BC or BU.



I mean, crap, I’m not a big or strong or elite level athlete or anything, but I’m athletic and competitive enough, where I got recruited by Ivy Leagues. Ended up choosing 125k grant to play division 3 football and what I hope would lead to an internship with the ‘pack. I was only able to play one yr of varsity football but my HS coach said you can play in college if you want, you can use it to get a ride, I know all you got is this year of film but 1AA- down i think you could get recruited and then play a lot at those levels.
But I had 1260 and 3.4 gpa, and really good athletes who I attended recruiting weekends with, when I was calling in to give my intent the college head coach at the school I chose, I asked about whether so and so signed up, and a good 4 of them, he said they wanted to come but he just couldn’t get them through admissions. I then asked point blank asked if they had a hard time getting me in and he said nah, your SATs made you an easy approval. I didn’t graduate though. Not cuz I couldn’t hack it or put in the work, I had just been through a lot of stuff leading up to even graduating HS and getting into college, and it just wasn’t my crowd of people, I just wasn’t into it at all. I wanted to go home and be around my friends. It was such a culture shock

Ivy level ain’t the major conferences. Coaches get some leeway, probably even get a couple blank slots every year where they can get anybody in, but it’s not to the extent some of you are making it out to be.

 

[NernieBichols]

Guys complaining about bringing tanner glass in to go on the road and meet with prospects and see how they are doing and kinda impart some of the mental makeup it takes to make it to the NhL and stick.

 

[effen]

Who do you think is involved?

at the NHL level? no one. that's the point.

edit: not even Pionk. They're capped out NOW with Gusev and Karlsson as RFAs and needing a 6th defenseman and a backup goalie. They're gonna need to trade both Miller and someone like Marchassault or Reilly Smith at the barest minimum while taking back 0 salary.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

So ugh how many of youse talking about Ivy League schools and their minimum requirements and how much the admissions will let them dip to bring in athletes.

Any of you ever get recruited to verify your theories ‘your friends’ told you.

Cuz Oliver wahlstrom and other bigly athletes would tell you, there certainly are limits to what the admissions allow the coaches to get away with in terms of academics.

It’s funny how sure you guys are when your stuff your dorm buddies told you years ago.

So HFboards

I got recruited to Ivy League. 125k grant to play division 3 football. I was only able to play one yr of varsity football but hs coach says you can play in college if you want, you can use it to get a ride, I know all you got is this year of film but 1AA- down i think you could get recruited and then play a lot at those levels. But I had 1260 and 3.4 gpa, and really good athletes who I attended recruiting weekends with, when I was calling to give my intent the college head coach at the school I chose, I asked about whether so and so signed up, and a good 4 of them, he said they wanted to come but he just couldn’t get them through admissions.
Ivy level ain’t major conference. Coaches get some leeway, probably even get some blank slots where they can get anybody in, but it’s not to the extent some of you are making it out to be.

And to the sarcastic guys. Your sitting on HFboards yapping about stuff you don’t know.

Guys complaining about bringing tanner glass in to go on the road and meet with prospects and see how they are doing and kinda impart some of the mental makeup it takes to make it to the NhL and stick.

Yeah our HFboards ivy leaguers are moaning and groaning about bringing the guy in and listen I went to an Ivy League and I had friends. Let me tell ya, they can get anybody in. Believe me my friend told me as we’d sit and drink 6 packs and watch the same movies over and over as 18 year olds in a dorm

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you needed to write two posts about it, it was literately one person.

 

[RGY]

at the NHL level? no one. that's the point.

Ok. So why wouldn’t Colin Miller be involved? I know he wasn’t sure on him but lets not act there is absolutely no one involved off the NHL roster.

And this is not me stating I am against grabbing one of their prospects.

 

[NernieBichols]

I wasn't going to say anything, but since you needed to write two posts about it, it was literately one person.

Your right One guy said the initial.
Then some wise guy came in with the sarcastic comment.
But from my experience and seeing as how wahlstrom gave early intent to go to Harvard and then didn’t get in and went bc or bu. I thought I’d share and stick up for tanner glass who honestly is probably sharper and more about it, then 95% of us here. It’s so typical

And the second post was actually touching on what glass’s role would probably be. And then a little chirp.

 

[effen]

Ok. So why wouldn’t Colin Miller be involved? I know he wasn’t sure on him but lets not act there is absolutely no one involved off the NHL roster.

And this is not me stating I am against grabbing one of their prospects.

I edited my post above, but I thought it was assumed your post was about Colin Miller going [somewhere, presumably here] and like, they can't even take back Pionk.