Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVI

[GoAwayPanarin]

TSN: - Corery Perrys days may be numbered. Ducks looking to trade him.

Let’s grab him with a valuable asset coming back as well.

Would have to be a hell of an asset.

 

[Leetch3]

Smith is really the only one I feel this way about. He’s entirely useless to the team and buying him out is such low impact that it makes sense to me. It’s also not like I’m going to be upset if they don’t.

Also, I don’t consider it handing a spot to kids if the kids have to beat each other out for said spots, which is what the situation would be if the only 2 LHD vets we had in the organization were Skjei and Staal.

I think he is useless too but fail to see the benefit to the team other than saying he’s gone

 

[Tawnos]

I think he is useless too but fail to see the benefit to the team other than saying he’s gone

Shedding useless players has inherent value is really all I’m saying.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

It’s about the whole picture, not single statements. Weighing the cap pain of a buyout versus the potential contribution of the player to the long-term of the rebuild. So if you’re implying Staal here, he makes an intangible contribution that outweighs the value of simply losing him from the organization. That intangible contribution outweighs the value of opening up the spot. If you’re implying Shattenkirk, the extent of the cap pain looms larger because of the prohibitive size of the year 2 cap hit. There would be benefit to getting him out of the org, but it doesn’t outweigh how big that dead cap hit would be.

Smith, on the other hand, doesn’t contribute anything to the long-term of the rebuild, doesn’t have prohibitive costs attached to his buy out, and losing him from the org would be a positive. To me, it’s pretty clearly a good move and the only one of these that is.

He’s a good player and a versatile one, but he has negative value to the Rangers right now that can be addressed with minimal pain.

Hes Marc Staal, not Mark Messier.

They'd be fine with out his "intangibles" which are outweighed by the fact that he is our worst defenseman, by a lot.

The room won't fall apart because Staal isn't there. If there is anyone to buy out, its him.

 

[SA16]

Hes Marc Staal, not Mark Messier.

They'd be fine with out his "intangibles" which are outweighed by the fact that he is our worst defenseman, by a lot.

The room won't fall apart because Staal isn't there. If there is anyone to buy out, its him.

Nevermind. Why is there no delete post button?

 

[LORDE]

The concern over a $1m cap hit 3 and 4 years from now is hilarious to me.

As is the math of adding those hits to Girardis hit plus the fact that contracts go up EVERY year.

Will the cap? Possibly.

But just buying players out today for a team who’s no where near the playoffs is stealing tomorrow’s money (no matter how insignificant it may seem to u) from a hopefully contending team.

 

[LORDE]

$1.1m for Smith, $1.1m for Girardi, might as well buyout Staal too. And then the next Hagelin for Etem trade happens because we don't have $2m for a cog.

Stop w the math plz... I can’t take it

 

[effen]

I must be in a parallel dimension where the New York Rangers have so much young talent at every level the mere presence of Brendan Smith or Kevin Shattenkirk is blocking their growth so we must pre-preemptively buy them out or the coaching staff will be hypnotized by their veterany veteran-ness and slot them in the top-4 against their will.

We're a couple months removed from everyone agreeing a team full of kids would have been a bad idea and the way they were doing it was/is right. All of a sudden in early June people got Alzheimer's and thinks this is EHM.

Bring on the draft plz.

 

[Leetch3]

When it comes to buyouts or dumping guys the question is what are you doing with the cap space that is freed up? Clearing cap space just to clear it is one thing. But if you got another move lined up and a buyout is the first step to the other move that becomes a different story

 

[CommaSynapse]

When it comes to buyouts or dumping guys the question is what are you doing with the cap space that is freed up? Clearing cap space just to clear it is one thing. But if you got another move lined up and a buyout is the first step to the other move that becomes a different story

Very much agreed.

I'm all for flexibility, but to add a longer commitment through a buyout when we could just ride out the current one seems silly. Like you said--if there's a move that makes sense, sure thing, but to get rid of Staal or Smith at this moment seems like a short-sighted move.

I get it. Staal hasn't been good and Smith is just getting plugged into the 4th line, but Hajek and Lindgren have played all of five games. Call me crazy, but I'd rather wait for them to be a sure thing before force-fitting them. I don't think Smith or Staal are blocking anyone at this point. Training camp may change that story.

 

[Vitto79]

Smith is going to be on the main roster this year. In what capacity is another story. I'm fine with him being an occasional 4th line winger which he actually wasn't bad at/3rd pair DMan/7th DMan. He should be the Jason Strudwick of this team in what will probably be his final year as a Ranger.

I’m gonna say Smith is gone. Staal is not moveable , Skjei stays and 1 kid is playing LD.... Plus Claesson can spare

The battle in camp is Hajek , Lindgren , Rykov , Ruenanen

Smith should be tradeable at 50

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I’m gonna say Smith is gone. Staal is not moveable , Skjei stays and 1 kid is playing LD.... Plus Claesson can spare

The battle in camp is Hajek , Lindgren , Rykov , Ruenanen

Smith should be tradeable at 50

God, I hope he has retired by then

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I have no real opinion about Smith as a player one way or another but I miss the announcers telling us he's not fat anymore.

 

[effen]

Smith is going to be a 4th line forward next year. He was good at it last year. Not 'good for a defenseman' good, 'good for an NHL 4th liner' good. He's a big body and the team needs beef up front. Too many games the Rangers got bodied last year.

That he can competently flex as a defenseman in effect lets the Rangers ice a 12/7 squad and is a significant structural advantage that is probably worth several points in the standings even if he himself isn't a worldbeater. Think about those games where a dman gets injured in the first 10 mins, or instances where you lose 2 PK'ing defensemen and its a 5 on 3 for 2 mins.

 

[LORDE]

Smith is going to be a 4th line forward next year. He was good at it last year. Not 'good for a defenseman' good, 'good for an NHL 4th liner' good. He's a big body and the team needs beef up front. Too many games the Rangers got bodied last year.

That he can competently flex as a defenseman in effect lets the Rangers ice a 12/7 squad and is a significant structural advantage that is probably worth several points in the standings even if he himself isn't a worldbeater. Think about those games where a dman gets injured in the first 10 mins, or instances where you lose 2 PK'ing defensemen and its a 5 on 3 for 2 mins.

I don’t particularly like Smith but I do like this post.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Coupling the topics of Perry and buyouts, it’s interesting that his contract expires at the same time Hank’s and the three albatross defensemen’s do. Obviously you don’t take him for peanuts, but if they were willing to include the #9OA to move him? You could take that, and then look to move him along with whichever other player attracts interest at 50% retained this year, then one other at 50% next summer, and ride out the remaining two in ‘20-‘21.

Another major asset gained (along with whatever value you can manage to get in return in the subsequent deals), and you still have a clean cap starting at the same time (summer ‘21)...

 

[Leetch3]

Coupling the topics of Perry and buyouts, it’s interesting that his contract expires at the same time Hank’s and the three albatross defensemen’s do. Obviously you don’t take him for peanuts, but if they were willing to include the #9OA to move him? You could take that, and then look to move him along with whichever other player attracts interest at 50% retained this year, then one other at 50% next summer, and ride out the remaining two in ‘20-‘21.

Another major asset gained (along with whatever value you can manage to get in return in the subsequent deals), and you still have a clean cap starting at the same time (summer ‘21)...

9OA is the starting point. i want their 1st next year too for a contract that bad

 

[Kovalev27]

No reason to buy out smith when he can be your 6 7th D and 12/13 forward. He’s overpaid sure but he fills two roles and apparently is a solid locker room presence.

Keep him till he’s tradable or his contract expires.

Shatty you move if you have something else you want the money for.

The two guys that have to actually go definitively imo are namestnikov and Vesey.

 

[CommaSynapse]

I'm so glad this isn't the old days. I foresee a lot of terrible UFA contracts this summer.

 

[SA16]

Perry has a full NTC I doubt he would accept a trade here at this point in his career.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

We need to stop this buyout talk. We dont need the cap space now and signing players like Karlsson and panarin are wasted on this team at the moment. Having the buyouts of Girardi, Staal, Smith, and whoever else all ends up screwing up our cap for over the 2 years left on all their contracts which ends up being about 5-8 million dollars of dead cap space when we will actually need it for our home grown players and trying to sign a star to go along with them. We are not going anywhere for the next 2 years. Staal, Smith, and shatty`s contracts will be gone, that's around 14m completely off the books. Sorry guys but I'll wait the year and try to trade them with 1 year on their contracts and retain some if need be to open up spots when our young players are ready to step in and take up the mantle

 

[I Eat Crow]

We need to stop this buyout talk. We dont need the cap space now and signing players like Karlsson and panarin are wasted on this team at the moment. Having the buyouts of Girardi, Staal, Smith, and whoever else all ends up screwing up our cap for over the 2 years left on all their contracts which ends up being about 5-8 million dollars of dead cap space when we will actually need it for our home grown players and trying to sign a star to go along with them. We are not going anywhere for the next 2 years. Staal, Smith, and shatty`s contracts will be gone, that's around 14m completely off the books. Sorry guys but I'll wait the year and try to trade them with 1 year on their contracts and retain some if need be to open up spots when our young players are ready to step in and take up the mantle

Agree with this.

A $1.1 million cap hit for two years for a Smith buyout, for example, isn't much in a vacuum.

However, if you buyout Smith and trade Staal and Shattenkirk somewhere at 50% retained this summer, that's well over $7 million in dead space for the next two years. Buy out Staal and/or Shattenkirk next summer, and we're going into 2022 in which the Rangers are responsible for dead money on the cap. That can prevent the Rangers from making a move in the near future that can really improve the squad. What if Ehlers, Nylander, Marner, or another young player become available for a reasonable cost? Other GM's know that Winnipeg, Toronto, et al. are up against the wall. They're prime to be ripped off if they don't get creative.

It's better to keep the books clean while the young guys progress and figure stuff out. That being said, you can't have a defensive corps of Hajek, DeAngelo, Pionk, Fox, Lindgren, and Rykov going into next season either. You need some leadership back there to tell the young bucks how to be a pro on and off the ice. Marc Staal is the perfect guy to do that. The guy just isn't a great player anymore whose heyday has long passed, but I never questioned the guy's effort or will to win. He's a good example for the next generation to follow.

 

[Leetch3]

The two guys that have to actually go definitively imo are namestnikov and Vesey.

I don't know if I agree with that...even assuming kratsov and kakko make the team...zibanejad, kreider, buchnevich, chytil, howden, anderson, lemieux, fast, strome, vesey, namestnikov, kratsov, kakko and nieves. that's 14 guys. and there are no other top forwards that you need to find spots for...

good chance kreider gets dealt...then if dump those 2 and kratsov/kakko need some time we can barely field a team.

if you move those and kreider is gone, you probably need to replace both with veteran players. now if you can trade them for a pick and then replace them by signing a vet that is a better fit thats great. but i'm not seeing it as a must move. unlike on the blueline we don't have a ton of extra depth up front

 

[smoneil]

No reason to buy anyone out. If things go remarkably well w/our D prospects, we'll still need Smith to be #7d/#13f. You don't want a kid sitting in the press box for long stretches. Even then, assuming Quinn coaches the same way next year, he'll rotate the kids in and out so they can watch the games and focus on fixing aspects of their game. Having a guy like Smith can be very useful for that.

 

[Tawnos]

As is the math of adding those hits to Girardis hit plus the fact that contracts go up EVERY year.

Will the cap? Possibly.

But just buying players out today for a team who’s no where near the playoffs is stealing tomorrow’s money (no matter how insignificant it may seem to u) from a hopefully contending team.

Contracts go up BECAUSE the cap goes up. If the cap doesn’t go up, contracts won’t either.

It’s the reason why cap hit % is the better evaluator of contracts, because it tends to be stable for whichever quality of player.