Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLV

[Ghost of jas]

How about 19-20 and 20-21?

Boomer Gordon and Tyler Madarasz just went through a top 10 of the RFAs this upcoming off-season and the numbers they predicted were scary.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I just really hope this board knows what it’s getting, and what it’s not.

Shouldn’t that be directed at Gorton and company?

 

[SA16]

With the exception of this year, he's averaged 25P his career. That's not 1D material. If he can replicate his offensive production from this year, that's a different story.

Yes defenseman generally do not score a lot of points when they are not on the top PP. defenseman scoring is hugely a function of usage

 

[NernieBichols]

I just really hope this board knows what it’s getting, and what it’s not.

Do you think he’s a long term #2 and can play 1st pairing if a better guy doesn’t fall into our laps.
Cuz the way the cap is going. 8 million seems like market for a #2.

And personally how do you compare trouba to Carlson on the caps

 

[Edge]

No doubt.

I'm not about going crazy here, but if we can get him on our terms we should be on it. We have a ton of pieces that can be deemed expendable.

I generally find that if the proposal starts with guys that don’t give you some heartburn, it’s probably not getting it done.

We have very good depth. We don’t have Tampa Bay circa 2017 or 2018 depth.

If Trouba is indeed a cornerstone defenseman, a legit 50 point player, and a guy that a team can include in its inner core for the next 7 years, we’re probably not getting him for the names this board hopes it can get him for.

Other teams who can win NOW with Trouba are going to be all-in these negotiations. The Jets aren’t taking Skjei and a sweetener.

Start thinking Buch, start thinking ADA and start thinking that 20th overall pick.

 

[haohmaru]

My gut feeling is that Trouba is going to be a Ranger. Gorton has targeted him for a while, and I think he becomes the anchor on D, or at least the that’s how the Rangers view him. Some may not like the price, (much like the Fox trade), but it will be a fair one. The merits can be debated, but, it’s the type of deal I see as representing the ‘speed up the rebuild ‘ talk, more so than signing Panarin.

The Fox trade was, essentially, a 2nd for an extra year of Fox. If the guy plays 40 NHL games this year that's a steal and hardly cost us anything.

Trouba, though... can't get behind it. Between the assets, the term, the $, and the player I think it'd amount to a pretty big letdown.

 

[haohmaru]

Start thinking Buch, start thinking ADA and start thinking that 20th overall pick.

Starting to think I might need to buy some extra strength Rolaids.

 

[NernieBichols]

I generally find that if the proposal starts with guys that don’t give you some heartburn, it’s probably not getting it done.

We have very good depth. We don’t have Tampa Bay circa 2017 or 2018 depth.

If Trouba is indeed a cornerstone defenseman, a legit 50 point player, and a guy that a team can include in its inner core for the next 7 years, we’re probably not getting him for the names this board hopes it can get him for.

Other teams who can win NOW with Trouba are going to be all-in these negotiations. The Jets aren’t taking Skjei and a sweetener.

Start thinking Buch, start thinking ADA and start thinking that 20th overall pick.

For me, that’s a No thank you on that price.
But again if in gortons mind, buch and Ada don’t have long term future here. If they have their roster slots pegged for someone else in a couple years time. Maybe that’s not a heavy price after all

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I generally find that if the proposal starts with guys that don’t give you some heartburn, it’s probably not getting it done.

We have very good depth. We don’t have Tampa Bay circa 2017 or 2018 depth.

If Trouba is indeed a cornerstone defenseman, a legit 50 point player, and a guy that a team can ince olude in its inner core for the next 7 years, we’re probably not getting him for the names this board hopes it can get him for.

Other teams who can win NOW with Trouba are going to be all-in these negotiations. The Jets aren’t taking Skjei and a sweetener.

Start thinking Buch, start thinking ADA and start thinking that 20th overall pick.

Yeah if they move him for those 3, He better be playing 82 games a year.

 

[Edge]

Do you think he’s a long term #2 and can play 1st pairing if a better guy doesn’t fall into our laps.
Cuz the way the cap is going. 8 million seems like market for a #2.

And personally how do you compare trouba to Carlson on the caps

In my gut, I can see a similar situation to McD. If he’s healthy, and has a good supporting cast, he’s a number one defenseman. Maybe not a top 10 guy, maybe mid-teens, but a number one defenseman.

My concern, and it’s a pretty big one, is that I am not sure we have that supporting cast and won’t for a while still.

I do have concerns about his long-term durability, despite the arguments others have presented.

I do wonder how he does holding down the fort while we hopefully get our shit together around him. We’re not the Jets, and we won’t be for a while. And that spotlight is going to be a hell of a lot brighter in this market, and there’s no Buff, or Morrissey, or others to take the wheel as needed.

I have concerns the expectations are going to be very, very difficult to meet.

 

[Edge]

Shouldn’t that be directed at Gorton and company?

I think they’ll know what they’re getting. But as we’ve seen many times, that doesn’t mean this board does. That’s why we end up with volumes of pages dedicated to why [insert name] player is being treated unfairly, or [insert name] didn’t quite have the desired result.

 

[Edge]

Starting to think I might need to buy some extra strength Rolaids.

And that means it’s probably a little closer to the ballpark of what the price would be.

Trouba is going to come with a cost, both in assets and dollars. Winnipeg is going to want bodies. And if they’re giving up the most talented, or at least most established player in the deal, they aren’t taking mystery boxes. They are in it to win it NOW.

 

[haohmaru]

And that means it’s probably a little closer to the ballpark of what the price would be.

Trouba is going to come with a cost, both in assets and dollars. Winnipeg is going to want bodies. And if they’re giving up the most talented, or at least most established player in the deal, they aren’t taking mystery boxes. They are in it to win it NOW.

Yeah, not a price I pay for Trouba. Pass.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, not a price I pay for Trouba. Pass.

And I could be way off base here. But if I am Winnipeg, and I look at what Hayes got, and McD got, and I look at my market for a 25 year old RHD coming off a career year, I’m setting the price tag pretty high.

And that’s the difference between the Rangers inquiring about Trouba, and the being “in” on Trouba.

One gets clicks, the other not nearly as many.

 

[NYR Viper]

Nashville will be looking to shed cap. Any interest in Turris at a low cost?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Nashville will be looking to shed cap. Any interest in Turris at a low cost?

None.

 

[thethirdhockeyman91]

Boomer Gordon and Tyler Madarasz just went through a top 10 of the RFAs this upcoming off-season and the numbers they predicted were scary.

Love listening to Boomer on the radio, that guy is the best

 

[eco's bones]

In my gut, I can see a similar situation to McD. If he’s healthy, and has a good supporting cast, he’s a number one defenseman. Maybe not a top 10 guy, maybe mid-teens, but a number one defenseman.

My concern, and it’s a pretty big one, is that I am not sure we have that supporting cast and won’t for a while still.

I do have concerns about his long-term durability, despite the arguments others have presented.

I do wonder how he does holding down the fort while we hopefully get our **** together around him. We’re not the Jets, and we won’t be for a while. And that spotlight is going to be a hell of a lot brighter in this market, and there’s no Buff, or Morrissey, or others to take the wheel as needed.

I have concerns the expectations are going to be very, very difficult to meet.

I would think he'd want to take on that kind of challenge. He's spent his career being second banana to Byfuglien and here's his chance to grab the spotlight for an original 6 team in the largest NHL market. One concern is he's been injured a few times but if he became a Ranger he'd automatically become our best defenseman and we'd address some of our issues on the right side and could really start stabilizing our defense--not having players playing in roles above their skill levels. Trouba would go a long ways towards fixing our defense.

Anyway for Buch, ADA and the 20 OA--I'd see if the Jets would sweeten it a little by sending us their 2nd in this year's draft.

 

[JimmyG89]

Trouba feels like a #2 on a really good team. We're clearly not one yet, but the end goal is to get there. Acquiring a #2 in a big trade right now is premature. We should have similar assets a few years down the line. We're not in the business of trading 1st rounders, so we should be able to have prospect depth behind what we have now, even in two years.

We'd also know a hell of a lot more about our current team.

I'd prefer to avoid his market at this point. Give Tony and Fox big minutes on the right side this year. Allow them to develop. Reassess in a year.

DeAngelo may not have the complete game that Trouba has, but we don't need him too right now. Same from Fox. We can develop that game. What we have is two RHD that have the potential to be 50 point guys.

If in a season or two they aren't taking those steps and the rest of the roster is, we can look at getting a player. There will be players to target. Let's not start blowing through our deep pool of assets that we just started putting together.

 

[Edge]

I would think he'd want to take on that kind of challenge. He's spent his career being second banana to Byfuglien and here's his chance to grab the spotlight for an original 6 team in the largest NHL market. One concern is he's been injured a few times but if he became a Ranger he'd automatically become our best defenseman and we'd address some of our issues on the right side and could really start stabilizing our defense--not having players playing in roles above their skill levels. Trouba would go a long ways towards fixing our defense.

Anyway for Buch, ADA and the 20 OA--I'd see if the Jets would sweeten it a little by sending us their 2nd in this year's draft.

I think that first line is where I get concerned a little. We HOPE he’s that personality type, but we don’t one way or the other. But in some ways, that’s neither here nor there. The fact remains, we would be asking him to assume a hell of a lot of responsibility without nearly the same supporting cast. And it’s not like he’s a guy coming from a team whose peak is ending, going to a team whose peak is starting. This would be a serious step down.

And that’s where we kind of drift into that expectation area I am concerned about. What we’re asking him to do would be a pretty tall order for a guy who is one of the top defenseman in the league, let alone a guy who I think is really a bit below that.

Would he bring stability and improvement to the team? Yeah, of that I have no doubt. Is he the type who can put a team on his back and really turn things around? Eh, I’m not as sure about that. And I feel like that’s what we’re really expecting/hoping we’re getting.

 

[NYR Viper]

It all comes down to the price like everything. If the Rangers can get Trouba for a piece or two that they no longer seem as necessary long term pieces the deal makes sense. With the LD depth, a guy like Skjei makes sense. The team has other depth pieces it can use as well. If Winnipeg is looking for a young top-6 C then pass and just wait it out.

It shouldn’t be Trouba or bust.

 

[Edge]

Trouba feels like a #2 on a really good team. We're clearly not one yet, but the end goal is to get there. Acquiring a #2 in a big trade right now is premature. We should have similar assets a few years down the line. We're not in the business of trading 1st rounders, so we should be able to have prospect depth behind what we have now, even in two years.

We'd also know a hell of a lot more about our current team.

I'd prefer to avoid his market at this point. Give Tony and Fox big minutes on the right side this year. Allow them to develop. Reassess in a year.

DeAngelo may not have the complete game that Trouba has, but we don't need him too right now. Same from Fox. We can develop that game. What we have is two RHD that have the potential to be 50 point guys.

If in a season or two they aren't taking those steps and the rest of the roster is, we can look at getting a player. There will be players to target. Let's not start blowing through our deep pool of assets that we just started putting together.

I can already see that last part becoming a reoccurring theme. Personally I don’t think we know what we have yet, and I continue to believe that we need more of it.

I worry that this fan base isn’t used to having this kind of depth. And kind of like someone who isn’t used to having money in their savings account, there’s always that desire to go out and spend it pretty quickly.

I’d like to avoid that right now. Assess what we actually have, and then start writing some checks.

 

[iamitter]

I would just wait till he's a free agent. If he has another healthy, productive season, pay him. No assets, just cash.

 

[Edge]

It all comes down to the price like everything. If the Rangers can get Trouba for a piece or two that they no longer seem as necessary long term pieces the deal makes sense. With the LD depth, a guy like Skjei makes sense. The team has other depth pieces it can use as well. If Winnipeg is looking for a young top-6 C then pass and just wait it out.

It shouldn’t be Trouba or bust.

I can’t help but feel like moving Skjei for Trouba is an improvement, but the addition to the right side isn’t as dramatic because the left side took a pretty decent drop.

That feels like a move you make when you feel comfortable with Hajek, have Miller expected to debut shortly, and have a better idea of what you have or don’t have in Keane, ADA, Fox, Lindgren, Rykov, etc.

I feel like we’re talking about going shopping when some of the checks we are counting on haven’t yet cleared.

 

[eco's bones]

I think that first line is where I get concerned a little. We HOPE he’s that personality type, but we don’t one way or the other. But in some ways, that’s neither here nor there. The fact remains, we would be asking him to assume a hell of a lot of responsibility without nearly the same supporting cast. And it’s not like he’s a guy coming from a team whose peak is ending, going to a team whose peak is starting. This would be a serious step down.

And that’s where we kind of drift into that expectation area I am concerned about. What we’re asking him to do would be a pretty tall order for a guy who is one of the top defenseman in the league, let alone a guy who I think is really a bit below that.

Would he bring stability and improvement to the team? Yeah, of that I have no doubt. Is he the type who can put a team on his back and really turn things around? Eh, I’m not as sure about that. And I feel like that’s what we’re really expecting/hoping we’re getting.

One of my issues with our defense on the right side is that Fox, ADA, Shattenkirk and Pionk are all similar players.... in that they're smallish (maybe not Shattenkirk so much) puck movers with defensive issues. Of course we haven't seen Fox yet but being a first year pro it's reasonable to expect that his D will probably be a bit suspect. I would like someone with size and more physical and Trouba would fit that way. I'd rather keep ADA over Pionk or Shattenkirk but I can't see Winnipeg taking on Shatty's contract and ADA would seem to be the guy they'd want. We'd have a lot more functional right side by adding Trouba IMO.

I think Trouba has the potential to be McDonagh good but whether that happens would be a risk we'd be taking. Then again there's risk with both Buchnevich and ADA as so far both have been teases too--both need to take another step or two but that's not guaranteed to happen either.

So there's risk involved for both sides.