Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLV

[NYR Viper]

I can’t help but feel like moving Skjei for Trouba is an improvement, but the addition to the right side isn’t as dramatic because the left side took a pretty decent drop.

That feels like a move you make when you feel comfortable with Hajek, have Miller expected to debut shortly, and have a better idea of what you have or don’t have in Keane, ADA, Fox, Lindgren, Rykov, etc.

I feel like we’re talking about going shopping when some of the checks we are counting on haven’t yet cleared.

This may be true, however finding a LD is often simpler than a RD. Then you take into account the LD depth internally and it makes sense to deal from a position of strength internally. I just think Trouba’s long term value at his position is higher than Skjei’s.

 

[Vitto79]

My gut feeling is that Trouba is going to be a Ranger. Gorton has targeted him for a while, and I think he becomes the anchor on D, or at least the that’s how the Rangers view him. Some may not like the price, (much like the Fox trade), but it will be a fair one. The merits can be debated, but, it’s the type of deal I see as representing the ‘speed up the rebuild ‘ talk, more so than signing Panarin.

I think they will go after him too but they will have to get creative

DeAngelo
Winnipegs 1st Back
Turn Kreider or Buch into assets to flip since the Jets are not looking for Wingers

They won’t want to deal a current kid C though

Trouba , Fox , Pionk on RD

 

[Edge]

One of my issues with our defense on the right side is that Fox, ADA, Shattenkirk and Pionk are all similar players.... in that they're smallish (maybe not Shattenkirk so much) puck movers with defensive issues. Of course we haven't seen Fox yet but being a first year pro it's reasonable to expect that his D will probably be a bit suspect. I would like someone with size and more physical and Trouba would fit that way. I'd rather keep ADA over Pionk or Shattenkirk but I can't see Winnipeg taking on Shatty's contract and ADA would seem to be the guy they'd want. We'd have a lot more functional right side by adding Trouba IMO.

I think Trouba has the potential to be McDonagh good but whether that happens would be a risk we'd be taking. Then again there's risk with both Buchnevich and ADA as so far both have been teases too--both need to take another step or two but that's not guaranteed to happen either.

We are just so early on in this process.

We are already projecting out our future based on a number of players who haven’t even played 1 second of NHL hockey - Kakko, Kravtsov, Miller, Lundkvist, Rykov, Shesterkin, etc.

Our more advanced prospects are 19-21, many with less than 100 pro games. We’re not talking about adding Trouba to a group of guys who are 23, 24, have a season or two of steadily increasing success under them.

And Trouba very well could be the next MCD. But I don’t see the next McD necessarily putting this group, at this time on his back. And that’s both what we’d be asking (and paying) Trouba to do.

Is it better than what we have now? Yeah, it is.

Does it strike me as a good combination? Very uneasy about that.

 

[Edge]

This may be true, however finding a LD is often simpler than a RD. Then you take into account the LD depth internally and it makes sense to deal from a position of strength internally. I just think Trouba’s long term value at his position is higher than Skjei’s.

We keep saying that and yet our left side hasn’t come together too easily these last several years.

It’s kind of like when a client dismisses a concept as “low hanging fruit.”

My immediate response is always, “Then why haven’t we grabbed it?”

 

[Greg02]

Big names are pieces we'd be accumulating for three to four years out. With someone like Panarin, who only costs cash, I can see the merit of making a move now so the cap hits are staggered when our own homegrown players hopefully get big raises. For Trouba though, it feels like there's too much of a premium to pay in assets for the value that he provides right now that we don't really need.

 

[AIexisLafreniereNYR]

For one, there WILL be moves done this off season.

If we can come away with

Erik Karlson — Jacob Trouba
Adam Fox — Brady Skeji

Lawdy.

I doubt we get both. I’d be surprised if we end up with even one. But if we make the right moves. Trading Kreider, somehow getting rid of Shattenkirk’s/Staals contract. It can happen.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Re: Trouba

I don't hate the idea of signing him, but it's just that. Signing him for nothing but cap space. I wouldn't trade the assets that would be necessary to acquire him to have him in tow for this coming season and at least 5 or 6 more seasons after that.

To acquire Trouba with an extension, the names that Winnipeg are going to ask for include two or three of Miller, Lundkvist, Kravtsov, Buchnevich, DeAngelo, Pionk, Andersson, and Chytil.

Realistically, Winnipeg will be in cap hell after signing Connor and Laine to extensions. They're going to want good young players on ELC's for Trouba or anyone else they'd entertain dealing. With that said, for an extended Trouba, we're looking at either Chytil or Anderson, DeAngelo, and Buchnevich or their 20th overall back as a starting point.

Other players will be available when the Rangers are ready to round out the team and go for it. Go for Trouba if he reaches UFA next summer, sure. But to deal for him now and spend premium assets to land him, I'm out.

 

[Edge]

For one, there WILL be moves done this off season.

If we can come away with

Erik Karlson — Jacob Trouba
Adam Fox — Brady Skeji

Lawdy.

I doubt we get both. I’d be surprised if we end up with even one. But if we make the right moves. Trading Kreider, somehow getting rid of Shattenkirk’s/Staals contract. It can happen.

I feel like we keep piling on, while insisting that this really about the kids.

Already, depending on the thread and the day, we’re talking about Karlsson, Trouba, Panarin, some combination of two of them, or other ideas that just really don’t fit right now.

We hedge our comments with things like, “it will help the kids.” But already I wonder, where does it stop?

It’s only Karlsson. It’s only Trouba. It’s only Panarin. Okay...how about two of em? Well...hey, Nylander is available. I mean we have to ask him about him right?

For a team that hasn’t even finished a second post-letter draft, we sure seem to have a nice Christmas list of talent we want to go out and get.

 

[DutchShamrock]

And I could be way off base here. But if I am Winnipeg, and I look at what Hayes got, and McD got, and I look at my market for a 25 year old RHD coming off a career year, I’m setting the price tag pretty high.

And that’s the difference between the Rangers inquiring about Trouba, and the being “in” on Trouba.

One gets clicks, the other not nearly as many.

Cheveldayoff isn't making a trade without exacting the appropriate amount of flesh. He is too patient, calculated and stubborn to cave in on a deal. This deal will hurt.

This fanbase has already fallen in love with the 20oa and all these unproven prospects, I don't think most a ready to part with the required price. I think we have both been beating the same drum for months, I would really like to know what we have in the system before we start making a splash.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

We are just so early on in this process.

We are already projecting out our future based on a number of players who haven’t even played 1 second of NHL hockey - Kakko, Kravtsov, Miller, Lundkvist, Rykov, Shesterkin, etc..

So true. In our heads most of our prospects will not only become regular NHL players, but quality players. And immediately.

Couldn’t agree more about your first sentence though. Some guys here want to start making long term commitments now, despite still in the pubescent stages of our rebuild.

 

[Edge]

So true. In our heads most of our prospects will not only become regular NHL players, but quality players. And immediately.

Couldn’t agree more about your first sentence though. Some guys here want to start making long term commitments now, despite still in the pubescent stages of our rebuild.

Look, nothing would make me happier than Kakko becoming a 90-100 point player. Having Kravtsov and Zibanejad chip in 80, having Buch, Chytil, Zegras/Newhook chip in 60+ a pop, Andersson pop in 55, while Howden and Lemieux nab their 50.

Combine it with Miller anchoring the first line with ADA, Hajek and Fox manning the second pair and some combination of Skjei, Lindgren, Keane, Rykov and Seider rounding out the defense or giving us the ammo to plug holes.

Top it off with Shesterkin being every damn bit as good as we hope he is, and let’s bring the Cup back to New York.

But all of that’s not likely to happen. It’s never that easy or straight forward. And right now we don’t even know what portions of that dream are looking more likely than others. We’re so, so early in this process. We have so little NHL evidence to base things on. We don’t yet know who is a keeper and who are the guys we’re willing to risk moving.

We will get to that point. But that point is not now. Not on the scale that we’re pushing for.

 

[effen]

I'd like to direct people thinking of adding 1, 2, (more?!?!) big pieces to watch the last 10 games of the season with the late 90s dump and chase offense and pack it in D and tell me what you're advocating is a good idea.

Baffling. This isn't even about patience, the rebuild has barely gotten off the ground.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think they will go after him too but they will have to get creative

DeAngelo
Winnipegs 1st Back
Turn Kreider or Buch into assets to flip since the Jets are not looking for Wingers

They won’t want to deal a current kid C though

Trouba , Fox , Pionk on RD

Im not interested in turning Kreider into trouba or seeing Pionk take a regular shift.

 

[ncmike]

Well said.

Their best chance at getting into the top 10 is to trade Kreider for a mid 1st and then try to overwhelm a team with a shallow system ahead of you with multiple picks including that mid 1st.

Honestly with the way that the mid-late teens of this draft is wide the **** open, there should be room to move into that range using 20+ other picks. I get wanting another pick in this draft but unless we're locking into Zegras, I'd rather trade Kreider for "now" help (not old now help.)

How about JG the gambler rolls the dice. Target a team you think will get a top 5 draft pick in 2020 and trade Kreider + to them. If things work out the Rangers have two top 5 draft picks next year which I’ve heard is a deeper draft.

 

[GAGLine]

How about JG the gambler rolls the dice. Target a team you think will get a top 5 draft pick in 2020 and trade Kreider + to them. If things work out the Rangers have two top 5 draft picks next year which I’ve heard is a deeper draft.

Any team like that will probably insist on some sort of lottery protection.

If Dallas re-signs Zucc, we get their 1st, unprotected. Then we can all hope they tank next season.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I generally find that if the proposal starts with guys that don’t give you some heartburn, it’s probably not getting it done.

We have very good depth. We don’t have Tampa Bay circa 2017 or 2018 depth.

If Trouba is indeed a cornerstone defenseman, a legit 50 point player, and a guy that a team can include in its inner core for the next 7 years, we’re probably not getting him for the names this board hopes it can get him for.

Other teams who can win NOW with Trouba are going to be all-in these negotiations. The Jets aren’t taking Skjei and a sweetener.

Start thinking Buch, start thinking ADA and start thinking that 20th overall pick.

As I kind of alluded to with my post earlier, I would be a little surprised it Trouba, Fox AND ADA are all NYR at the same time. Making ADA the obvious odd man out. I’m not sure I like it (I love the kid personally and want to give him the runway) but admit I don’t have all the info and wouldn’t be surprised if the NYR felt differently.

 

[NernieBichols]

In my gut, I can see a similar situation to McD. If he’s healthy, and has a good supporting cast, he’s a number one defenseman. Maybe not a top 10 guy, maybe mid-teens, but a number one defenseman.

My concern, and it’s a pretty big one, is that I am not sure we have that supporting cast and won’t for a while still.

I do have concerns about his long-term durability, despite the arguments others have presented.

I do wonder how he does holding down the fort while we hopefully get our **** together around him. We’re not the Jets, and we won’t be for a while. And that spotlight is going to be a hell of a lot brighter in this market, and there’s no Buff, or Morrissey, or others to take the wheel as needed.

I have concerns the expectations are going to be very, very difficult to meet.

and we’ve seen that play out many times over the years haven’t we. Panarin the player concerns me less than trouba the player, but trouba is a little younger and plays/would be asked to play at a position of real need while panarin might be a luxury at this point

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Cheveldayoff isn't making a trade without exacting the appropriate amount of flesh. He is too patient, calculated and stubborn to cave in on a deal. This deal will hurt.

This fanbase has already fallen in love with the 20oa and all these unproven prospects, I don't think most a ready to part with the required price. I think we have both been beating the same drum for months, I would really like to know what we have in the system before we start making a splash.

I bet Chevy will think twice when dealing with Gorton, Hayes was good for them but Gorton got great value back, and as you said Chevy is notoriously stingy.

 

[Edge]

and we’ve seen that play out many times over the years haven’t we. Panarin the player concerns me less than trouba the player, but trouba is a little younger and plays/would be asked to play at a position of real need while panarin might be a luxury at this point

I’d by lying if I didn’t say I’m not intrigued by a lot of these names. I might not be crazy about the timing, the cost or some other factors, but I get the appeal. I really do.

To be perfectly honest, I wish it was 2020 or 2021. I feel like I’d be more comfortable and it would be easier to gauge the situation. Because I’m really not opposed to some of the concepts we’re talking about. It’s some of the details, timing and context.

 

[NernieBichols]

And that means it’s probably a little closer to the ballpark of what the price would be.

Trouba is going to come with a cost, both in assets and dollars. Winnipeg is going to want bodies. And if they’re giving up the most talented, or at least most established player in the deal, they aren’t taking mystery boxes. They are in it to win it NOW.

With Myers going UFA (although he said he’d like to return) skjei fills his slot for the next 4 kinda seamlessly.

Winnipeg would actually be a really good spot for ADA to cement his career as a pro. That locker room would both embrace him and corral him. The rangers like pionk. If trouba’s coming in and they have Fox and pionk, Ada may be the odd man out to begin with.

Buchnevich I really want to keep. I thought that kid had an x-factor game breaking ability to him from the 1st time I saw in WJC. He’s never really gotten into a groove where he’s played 50-60 games in a row, a lot of stop and starts. I think he started turning the corner and with the continuity and hopefully teammates/line mates getting better around him, he becomes a steady 25-25 guy wherever he’s playing. I’d like to buchnevich be the one guy from that string of years who actually becomes a legitimate fixture and draft score. Hopefully he’s our player from the 2013 draft.

 

[NernieBichols]

Skjei and Ada for trouba

Would be replacing both Myers and filling the RD slot opened up by trading trouba in the same breath your trading him

 

[Edge]

With Myers going UFA (although he said he’d like to return) skjei feels his slot for the next 4 kinda seamlessly.

Winnipeg would actually be a really good spot for ADA to cement his career as a pro. That locker room would both embrace him and corral him. The rangers like pionk. If trouba’s coming in and they have Fox and pionk, Ada may be the odd man out to begin with.

Buchnevich I really want to keep. I thought that kid had an x-factor game breaking ability to him from the 1st time I saw in WJC. He’s never really gotten into a groove where he’s played 50-60 games in a row, a lot of stop and starts. I think he started turning the corner and with the continuity and hopefully teammates/line mates getting better around him, he becomes a steady 25-25 guy wherever he’s playing. I’d like to buchnevich be the one guy from that string of years who actually becomes a legitimate fixture and draft score. Hopefully he’s our player from the 2013 draft.

And keeping in mind that the bidding process will be open to other teams.

I think that’s something that can’t be overlooked. A lot of times we get so wrapped up in how our team fits with a trade partner, that it can be easy to develop a blind spot concerning the other offers that we’re competing against.

 

[thethirdhockeyman91]

For one, there WILL be moves done this off season.

If we can come away with

Erik Karlson — Jacob Trouba
Adam Fox — Brady Skeji

Lawdy.

I doubt we get both. I’d be surprised if we end up with even one. But if we make the right moves. Trading Kreider, somehow getting rid of Shattenkirk’s/Staals contract. It can happen.

Ahhhh, I just ed myself....... it’s all over my shirt

 

[Leetch3]

i'm a big fan of trouba, i think he'd be a great fit on our blueline and have brought him up countless times...that said I call BS on the rumor. the rangers will go hard after trouba is the same clickbait garbage that has us going after karlsson. the media thinks we are the rangers of old and has us going after every big name

what has anyone seen that makes them think the rangers are ready to give up the kind of assets it would take to make this deal? so we aren't ready to sign panarin but we are ready to give up a boatload of young assets for trouba? makes zero sense at this stage.

sure if they could get him for kreider in a 3 team deal, they'd be all over that but thats not gonna be even close. we are gonna top offers of contending teams that don't care about draft picks? the price will be way too much to make sense for us right now.

and i'm not ready to trade brady skjei yet...when the young LHD we have play more than 20 games combined in the nhl let me know. but i'm not trading away a 25 year old top 4 when those kids that are supposed to replace him have barely played.

 

[Leetch3]

plus if you make a deal for trouba you'd need to get rid of shattenkirk and we know we can't move him