Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLIV

[wafflepadsave]

I know your joking, but more likely Hank at 50% for a couple mid round picks/B or C level prospects.

Actually, I hadn’t thought much about it. I jumped the gun cus I wanted boqvist last year. Chicago might want one more crack at it this coming season. Maybe we could add another player, if needed.

 

[Ola]

Lundqvist has been lauded for his compete level for years. He has to make a choice. He either can be a beloved elder statesman/mentor for a young team, or he could chase the Cup in the couple years he has left. The Rangers, I'm pretty sure would be fine with either decision. Bottom line is he needs to accept a cup while a Ranger would be a borderline miracle at this point.

I think you got the wrong perspective, really, if Hank desperately did everything to win a Cup from now on, what odds would you give him to get one?

That’s right, it’s close to a zero. We all know it. He knows it. All GMs knows it. Sure, if he wants to grasp for straws, let him go elsewhere. If we retain and take back a bad contract, it’s possible he could be moved.. If not, he can be a vet option between the pipes for us next season. What is the big deal? There is no big deal. It don’t matter much at all for us.

Stop dreaming about getting a top pick and a top prospect for Hank. It’s — never — happening. We are more likely to get a future No 1 center for Shatty than for Hank.

 

[Fitzy]

Moving Hank wouldn't be about the return. It would be the cap space and roster space, and/or letting him choose to move on.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think you got the wrong perspective, really, if Hank desperately did everything to win a Cup from now on, what odds would you give him to get one?

That’s right, it’s close to a zero. We all know it. He knows it. All GMs knows it. Sure, if he wants to grasp for straws, let him go elsewhere. If we retain and take back a bad contract, it’s possible he could be moved.. If not, he can be a vet option between the pipes for us next season. What is the big deal? There is no big deal. It don’t matter much at all for us.

Stop dreaming about getting a top pick and a top prospect for Hank. It’s — never — happening. We are more likely to get a future No 1 center for Shatty than for Hank.

I dont understand the point of this reply, but thats par for the course when it comes to you.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Moving Hank wouldn't be about the return. It would be the cap space and roster space, and/or letting him choose to move on.

Exactly. Its a question of if he stays or if he goes. Who gives a shit about the return. The Rangers are in a position to cater to either need.

 

[SA16]

If we're trying to lose we should just play Hank all 82 games. Let him set the record. Georgiev and Shestyorkin can split time in Hartford.

 

[Lion Hound]

If Hank was indeed going to finish out with a Contender, it's even harder to predict as who knows who will contend next season? So much Parody.

 

[Ola]

Moving Hank wouldn't be about the return. It would be the cap space and roster space, and/or letting him choose to move on.

Do you really think we could clear money by trading Hank?

Why would anyone trade for Hank? Is he a goalie that can win a Cup for you? Very unlikely. Everyone knows that. The only alternative is someone that is desperate for a body between the pipes. Anyone with that need has a long term need, not a short term need. Like Carolina. But if they cannot find a long term solution, Hank can be a stop gap short term alternative — right? So what would anyone be willing to give up to get that? If Hank comes with a 9m cap hit — nobody would even consider it.

Scott Darlin has two more years at 4.150m. Hank is at 8.5m for the same duration. I have a really hard time seeing Carolina putting close to 9m (2x4.4) USD into an Hank investment. They aren’t an contender. They want to be able to invest all flexibility they have into finding someone that might realistically help them longer than 1-2 years down the road. But maybe if we retain 2.5m?

That is an even swap. Could we get back one of the Fox picks? Maybe. Let’s say we can. A Hank @6m for a 2nd and Darling as a back-up for 2 years at 6.6m per.

Or? Do you guys really think we could get more?

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I don't think the extra roster place matters, they're not gonna have the young guys do a 50:50 platoon in New York. For some of the possible outcomes it's way better to have a vet backup around (one of the young guys gets really hot, or both of them look like they can't handle it).

Hank would play more than like a Scott Darling or a scrapheap guy but I'm not sure that really hurts anybody.

 

[haohmaru]

Do you really think we could clear money by trading Hank?

Why would anyone trade for Hank? Is he a goalie that can win a Cup for you? Very unlikely. Everyone knows that. The only alternative is someone that is desperate for a body between the pipes. Anyone with that need has a long term need, not a short term need. Like Carolina. But if they cannot find a long term solution, Hank can be a stop gap short term alternative — right? So what would anyone be willing to give up to get that? If Hank comes with a 9m cap hit — nobody would even consider it.

Scott Darlin has two more years at 4.150m. Hank is at 8.5m for the same duration. I have a really hard time seeing Carolina putting close to 9m (2x4.4) USD into an Hank investment. They aren’t an contender. They want to be able to invest all flexibility they have into finding someone that might realistically help them longer than 1-2 years down the road. But maybe if we retain 2.5m?

So... now making it to the ECF's doesn't qualify you as a "contender"?

LOL @ the word "contender". Six thousand definitions for the same word.

But, yeah, no one is taking on Lundqvist's contract unless we are giving THEM something to take it on. We aren't getting Darling & a 2nd.

I think Lundqvist is here for the duration of his deal.

 

[Ola]

I dont understand the point of this reply, but thats par for the course when it comes to you.

Sorry, sometimes the discussions here get a little advanced, I understand that it can be hard to keep up.

You wrote that Hank has to decide if he should stay or go elsewhere to keep his dream alive.

The point of my reply? The dream is dead. The ship has sailed. We all know it. Everyone knows it. It’s ridiculous to pretend as if it haven’t. Geo is better than Hank. If Hank goes elsewhere, I think odds are pretty low for him finishing the season — as a starter for that team. Let along starting for that team and carrying it to a Cup win. Whom am I to say never, but the odds are tremendously slim.

Some still push the agenda that Hank must be traded real hard, why? They believe that we can get a great return for him, or clear up 9m or cap space. Really, why would anyone do that? It’s childish to expect that. It’s never happening.

 

[True Blue]

I think you got the wrong perspective, really, if Hank desperately did everything to win a Cup from now on, what odds would you give him to get one?

That’s right, it’s close to a zero. We all know it. He knows it. All GMs knows it. Sure, if he wants to grasp for straws, let him go elsewhere. If we retain and take back a bad contract, it’s possible he could be moved.. If not, he can be a vet option between the pipes for us next season. What is the big deal? There is no big deal. It don’t matter much at all for us.

Stop dreaming about getting a top pick and a top prospect for Hank. It’s — never — happening. We are more likely to get a future No 1 center for Shatty than for Hank.

Not sure what you are getting at. NO ONE thinks that trading Henke is about the assets coming back.

And it is all folly since he is NOT getting traded.

Geo is better than Hank.

You say that because you have a lot of data that gets you to this view? I certainly hope so, but that is a lot to hang on given how little games Georgiev has played.

 

[Ola]

So... now making it to the ECF's doesn't qualify you as a "contender"?

LOL @ the word "contender". Six thousand definitions for the same word.

But, yeah, no one is taking on Lundqvist's contract unless we are giving THEM something to take it on. We aren't getting Darling & a 2nd.

I think Lundqvist is here for the duration of his deal.

I agree.

And you get what I mean, it’s not like it’s Cup or bust for Carolina next season. Teams like them often are up and down. Colorado won 52 games and got 112 pts under Roy in 14’ with a really young core, then they miss the POs three straight years after it. Carolina has a young team and their primary goal is not to win a Cup the coming 1-2 years, its to establish themselves and keep taking steps in the right direction.

 

[NYRKING30]

Stop dreaming about getting a top pick and a top prospect for Hank. It’s — never — happening. We are more likely to get a future No 1 center for Shatty than for Hank.

I don't think a single person here has said or has it in their head's Hank would return a top pick AND/OR top prospect lol. The return is cap relief and an open spot at the goaltending position.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Sorry, sometimes the discussions here get a little advanced, I understand that it can be hard to keep up.

You wrote that Hank has to decide if he should stay or go elsewhere to keep his dream alive.

The point of my reply? The dream is dead. The ship has sailed. We all know it. Everyone knows it. It’s ridiculous to pretend as if it haven’t. Geo is better than Hank. If Hank goes elsewhere, I think odds are pretty low for him finishing the season — as a starter for that team. Let along starting for that team and carrying it to a Cup win. Whom am I to say never, but the odds are tremendously slim.

Some still push the agenda that Hank must be traded real hard, why? They believe that we can get a great return for him, or clear up 9m or cap space. Really, why would anyone do that? It’s childish to expect that. It’s never happening.

The strawman argument you are having with yourself is, like, super advanced and stuff.

 

[n8]

Do you really think we could clear money by trading Hank?

Why would anyone trade for Hank? Is he a goalie that can win a Cup for you? Very unlikely. Everyone knows that. The only alternative is someone that is desperate for a body between the pipes. Anyone with that need has a long term need, not a short term need. Like Carolina. But if they cannot find a long term solution, Hank can be a stop gap short term alternative — right? So what would anyone be willing to give up to get that? If Hank comes with a 9m cap hit — nobody would even consider it.

Scott Darlin has two more years at 4.150m. Hank is at 8.5m for the same duration. I have a really hard time seeing Carolina putting close to 9m (2x4.4) USD into an Hank investment. They aren’t an contender. They want to be able to invest all flexibility they have into finding someone that might realistically help them longer than 1-2 years down the road. But maybe if we retain 2.5m?

That is an even swap. Could we get back one of the Fox picks? Maybe. Let’s say we can. A Hank @6m for a 2nd and Darling as a back-up for 2 years at 6.6m per.

Or? Do you guys really think we could get more?

I feel like Hank is on the down turn but don't sit there pretending like you have all the answers. We don't know if Hank is really done. He is a fierce competitor. He could still pull a Broduer and take us to the finals at the age of 40. Or another team. We just saw the Blues go from last place in the league to the Cup Finals - a large part of this is due to Binnington's play. Hank simply needs to have a normal Hank year and we could get a decent package for him provided (your one valid point) cap issues are sorted out. That's a big IF. But if Hank is playing like Hank, we can expect at least what we got from the Hayes trade from a team that is desperate to make a run like say Calgary. Taking salary back can make these deals work. Retaining can work. But until we see how Hank trains over the summer (no we don't actually need to see), performs in camp and into the 2020, no one knows what a potential Hank trade would return. Why would anyone trade for Hank? If it isn't the broken Hank of 2019, then they do it to give themselves a great chance at winning the Stanley Cup. If you give Hank an actual blue line (and not our sorry excuse of a D-corp) I'm willing to bet he can still show you some amazing goaltending.

Sorry, sometimes the discussions here get a little advanced, I understand that it can be hard to keep up.

You wrote that Hank has to decide if he should stay or go elsewhere to keep his dream alive.

The point of my reply? The dream is dead. The ship has sailed. We all know it. Everyone knows it. It’s ridiculous to pretend as if it haven’t. Geo is better than Hank. If Hank goes elsewhere, I think odds are pretty low for him finishing the season — as a starter for that team. Let along starting for that team and carrying it to a Cup win. Whom am I to say never, but the odds are tremendously slim.

Some still push the agenda that Hank must be traded real hard, why? They believe that we can get a great return for him, or clear up 9m or cap space. Really, why would anyone do that? It’s childish to expect that. It’s never happening.

Please do me a favor and don't speak for everyone else.

 

[haohmaru]

I agree.

And you get what I mean, it’s not like it’s Cup or bust for Carolina next season. Teams like them often are up and down. Colorado won 52 games and got 112 pts under Roy in 14’ with a really young core, then they miss the POs three straight years after it. Carolina has a young team and their primary goal is not to win a Cup the coming 1-2 years, its to establish themselves and keep taking steps in the right direction.

Yeah, but I also don't think Lundqvist is a dumpster fire goalie yet either. Let's be honest, last year was the first year that he had a really, really bad team in front of him. First year that he was out of the playoffs long before the season ended. New territory for him. I'm not writing the guy off as a 100% backup yet until a few months into next season. Let's see what happens.

 

[Ola]

Not sure what you are getting at. NO ONE thinks that trading Henke is about the assets coming back.

And it is all folly since he is NOT getting traded.
d.

So what am I missing, if we aren’t clearing much if any cap space by moving him and if we aren’t getting anything back and if it results in a down grade at best at our back-up position — why are some pushing the agenda must Hank must go to Gorts and request a trade?

There are many who are freakin out about the Hank situation.

I couldn’t care less. What he does or says is totally irrelevant. He could go on insta and do the helicopter tomorrow and it shouldn’t even be newsworthy.

 

[Ola]

I feel like Hank is on the down turn but don't sit there pretending like you have all the answers. We don't know if Hank is really done. He is a fierce competitor. He could still pull a Broduer and take us to the finals at the age of 40. Or another team. We just saw the Blues go from last place in the league to the Cup Finals - a large part of this is due to Binnington's play. Hank simply needs to have a normal Hank year and we could get a decent package for him provided (your one valid point) cap issues are sorted out. That's a big IF. But if Hank is playing like Hank, we can expect at least what we got from the Hayes trade from a team that is desperate to make a run like say Calgary. Taking salary back can make these deals work. Retaining can work. But until we see how Hank trains over the summer (no we don't actually need to see), performs in camp and into the 2020, no one knows what a potential Hank trade would return. Why would anyone trade for Hank? If it isn't the broken Hank of 2019, then they do it to give themselves a great chance at winning the Stanley Cup. If you give Hank an actual blue line (and not our sorry excuse of a D-corp) I'm willing to bet he can still show you some amazing goaltending.

Please do me a favor and don't speak for everyone else.

You are affected on a personal level because you like him. I get it.

But he is shaky. He is a fierce competitor, but also not very calm. That hurts him now. He haven’t played well for years. A young kid like Geo is playing better than him. He is making 8.5m per. Almost all teams have a starter in place, you can count the teams looking for a starter on one hand.

It’s a fair point you make that I shouldn’t say never, but look at who is in the net for STL. Could Hank pull a miracle? Sure. But he isn’t alone with that opportunity. And the other options out there has future potential like the kid between STL pipes and doesn’t make 8.5m per.

I shouldn’t speak for everyone else, but I am fairly certain that we are fooling ourselves if we think that we can clear significant cap space by trading Hank and hence push the agenda that he should request a trade. It would almost certainly take us (I) taking someone like Darling back and (II) retaining on Hanks contract, and at best if we get a later pick.

 

[Ola]

The strawman argument you are having with yourself is, like, super advanced and stuff.

I don’t get why you always have to be so hostile? I didn’t see that you had written that post, if I had I wouldn’t have replied to you.

We have for years talked about how Hank should go somewhere else to win a Cup, because it would gain us as an organization. I’ve been pushing that agenda myself. But it was different two summers ago and last summer. If Hank say ‘hell no, find me a PO contender and deal me there’ last summer it could have been huge for us.

But who are we fooling, a lot of things have changed. Hank is 38 y/o. He had a bad season. He had a very shaky/horrible WCHs. There is a rookie in the SCFs. Who is taking on 8.5m contract even if they get him for free? I can’t see it.

And if we have to trade him as a cap dump, there is no reason whatsoever to pull the trigger now. Wait until Shesty has played a bit in the AHL.

 

[SA16]

Don't sign Panarin. Players fall of after 30.

Also - Hank's only 38 he could easily get back to being Hank.

 

[Ola]

Don't sign Panarin. Players fall of after 30.

Also - Hank's only 38 he could easily get back to being Hank.

Amen.

Lol look at this goal Hank let in. Lol only has a 88% sv. Lol the Athletic talks to GMs who doesn’t have him as a top 25 goalie. Lol he is outplayed by a small rookie goalie like Geo.

But he is only 38 and only makes 8.5m for two more years so a bunch of contenders will want to trade for him.

I would have loved it too if Hank went to Gorts last summer and requested a trade and brought us back a 1st and cleared cap space. It would have been huge. But — that — ship has sailed. Him being moveable at all without retention and without taking a contract back is also probably very unlikely.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Henrik should just stop talking about his future. I think his comments to the Swedish media are his true feelings. He doesn't feel the Rangers are committed to him. If you look at the Rangers situation, I don't blame him for feeling that way. He is not stupid. Quinn gave Georgiev more and more starts in the 2nd half. Georgiev outplayed him by a wide margin. He sees Shesterkin signed. It won't be long before he starts pushing for more playing. The Rangers have traded basically everybody except for Kreider and Steal. All of his friends have been traded.

Then John Davidson says this on Wednesday



NYR News-What John Davidson said about Henrik Lundqvist, Dolan, Gorton and more

JD was being nice with Henrik playing very well.

Then a few hours later, Kevin Weeks made his comments about Lundqvist's plans.



You make it sound like I am making up this ****.

It keeps coming up. Something must be there.

Hendrik has to realize like anyone else on the team he has to earn his starts.

 

[GAGLine]

I don't think the extra roster place matters, they're not gonna have the young guys do a 50:50 platoon in New York. For some of the possible outcomes it's way better to have a vet backup around (one of the young guys gets really hot, or both of them look like they can't handle it).

We can juggle 3 goalies next year, but the year after will be a problem, and between now and then we need to figure out exactly what we have in both Georgiev and Shesterkin. That's going to be tough to do if Henrik is getting half the starts.

 

[haveandare]

Georgiev was significantly worse than hank much of the year. Some serious recency bias going on in comparing them.