Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLII

[True Blue]

Historically
Give me 2 free agents (under 30) better than Erik Karlsson
Name me 3 free agents “ “ better than John tavares
And finally
Name me 5 free agents “ “ better than Artemi Panarin.

Good luck with it

Now tell me how many signed UFAs performed as well at 32 at they did at 27.

Good luck with it.

 

[SA16]

Now tell me how many signed UFAs performed as well at 32 at they did at 27.

Good luck with it.

That’s nobody’s argument so what’s the point?

 

[kovazub94]

As did I, for the last decade because like I keep saying, data from 20-30 years ago does not matter any more. NHL GMs don't think that way, training is different, and I can't believe I keep having to explain this to you.

Here's that list again. Tell me again how it's 50% to be a 4th liner or a bust. <-- this is the point I keep nagging you on because it's just not accurate anymore. Besides, this is wasting thread space here and I'm done arguing it. You're not changing your mind. The prior 3 picks are Couture, Cowen, and Josh Bailey.

Mikael Granlund: 477 GP: 94-228-322
Dougie Hamilton: 505GP: 82-177-259
Jacob Trouba: 408GP: 42-137- 179
Bo Horvat: 377GP: 98-124-222
Nik Ehlers: 298GP: 90-109-199
Timo Meier: 193GP: 54-54-108
Mikhail Sergachev: 158GP: 15-57-72
Michael Rasmussen: 62GP: 8-10-18
Vitali Kravtsov: Alexander Yakushev
Trevor Zegras (NYR) Jack Hughes, who?

Do the same with #8,10.

 

[NernieBichols]

Now tell me how many signed UFAs performed as well at 32 at they did at 27.

Good luck with it.

Loaded question. Come on now. Come original with something that passes a couple filters as meaningful

 

[duhmetreE]

Now tell me how many signed UFAs performed as well at 32 at they did at 27.

Good luck with it.

You don't see the fallacy in that question? It circles back to the first statement you quoted.

UFA is not a place where 'elite' talent goes. There are a handful, if that, comparable to Panarin. Selanne being one and he performed well past 32.

 

[kovazub94]

Pretty sure the rangers are keeping Shattenkirk. I assume the rangers won't send him anywhere he doesn't want to go. Surely they'd move him were it a win-win situation. But I wouldn't bank on that happing. Seems far-fetched. I'm just hoping he bounces back.

Re. the bolded: accommodating Shattenkirk’s wants will not be high on Gorton’s list of priorities if a team-friendly move presented itself.

 

[Calad]

You are not the biggest problem. I thought your point about the false dichotomy was spot on.

I try not to get myself involved in pointless internet arguments, but when certain people keep parroting the same flawed logic and keep trying to make the discussion about said argument I feel obligated to call it out

 

[aufheben]

They had a lot more vets. Stuart and Mara on the blueline. Murray, Sturm, Donovan, Axelsson. They had young players but they also had a lot more veterans throughout their lineup than our team.

Zibanejad, Namestnikov, Fast, Staal, Smith, Shattenkirk, Lundqvist.

Gorton, 2006:

"We were really aggressive out of the gate," interim general
manager Jeff Gorton said on a conference call. "It made it much
easier to sign Savard after Chara signed with us. He could see how
serious we were about winning.”

"We're a much better team today than we were yesterday, that's
for sure.”

"We also feel that he [Chara] will serve as a tremendous example to the number of young defencemen we have on our roster."

"He [Savard] will fit in well with the skill players we have on our team and the direction in which we are headed."

ESPN, 2006:

“The Bruins have also been dumping aging players...”

Boston Globe, 2006:

“Souray pulled back his stick. Chara hit the deck to block the shot. The puck that rocketed off Souray's stick pinballed off Chara's left boot.

Patrice Bergeron saw it all happen.
[...]
[...] The Bruins used five defensemen for two periods en route to a win. Coach Dave Lewis used the moment as a teaching tool, reminding his players that the club's highest-paid employee -- the one who had led two weeks of informal practices at Ristuccia Arena before the start of training camp -- had sacrificed his body in a meaningless exhibition game.

And to a man, every Bruin walked away from the Montreal rink that night understanding the significance of what had taken place.

‘It showed,’ Bergeron said of Chara's move, ‘a desire to win.’
[...]
Big-name free agents expected to log heavy minutes.

Depth players making relatively little cash who step in when regulars go down.

Homegrown talent that can be locked up long-term.

In today's salary-cap league, those components, as well as error-free goaltending, are necessary for a club to become a playoff contender.
[...]
While the changes have come fast and steadily behind the bench and in the front office, it's been the same on the ice [...] Of the 19 players who saw ice time in the 2005-06 season opener, only five -- Bergeron, Brad Boyes, Glen Murray, P.J. Axelsson, and Andrew Alberts -- remain on the Bruins' 2006-07 roster.
[...]
But the revamped roster, which has seen more departures and arrivals than Logan Airport, will take time to develop into a potent club.
[...]
One of the players with the most to learn is Kessel, who was a senior at Pioneer High School in Ann Arbor, Mich., at this time two years ago
[...]
‘It's going to be fun,’ Murray said when asked of the team's prospects this year. ‘Ask me that 40 games in’”.

Chara, 2006:

"I was very impressed with how professional and straightforward Boston was in pursuing me," Chara said in a statement released through his agent. "I want to lead this team by setting a good example with my work ethic, drive, dedication and discipline."

Chara was also 29 at the time. He was named captain before the season began.
~

Kreider is the only player left to trade. They can trade him at the draft in a month, or re-sign him; either way. The Rangers are going into the 2019-20 season with the best prospect pool in the NHL. They still have 9 picks in the 2020 draft, probably 2x 1st rounders, even without trading Kreider (or whatever minor assets may return at the TDL).

Avg forward age 24.3, with a fresh new batch of kids coming over this summer. Panarin would shoulder a huge load for our wingers in terms of role, responsibility, attention, and expectations. Who better a mentor for Chytil, Kakko, Kravtsov, and even Andersson, than Artemi Panarin? I trust completely in whatever Gorton does here.

Bonus – PP units:
PP1
Chytil
Zibanejad-Strome-Kakko
Fox

PP2
Andersson
Panarin-Howden-Kravtsov
DeAngelo

The credits are ready to roll on this rebuild.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Do you guys repeat your position on Panarin over and over because you say it best or 'cause when whatever happens, you can say, "I said this" back when...?

 

[bobbop]

NHL Free Agents: The Top 25 Free-Agent Signings of All Time

Sans Teemu and maybe chara. I don’t see one guy

Scott Niedermayer

 

[bobbop]

Now tell me how many signed UFAs performed as well at 32 at they did at 27.

Good luck with it.

Scott Niedermayer he said

 

[NernieBichols]

Scott Niedermayer

Niedermayer was up there in age. No doubt to his impact. A cup

 

[NernieBichols]

Scott Niedermayer he said

You heard the pop

 

[bobbop]

Niedermayer was up there in age. No doubt to his impact. A cup

He was 31 when he signed as a free agent. He played five more years at a top level and could have played several more.

 

[NernieBichols]

Also Selanne had the career path and moving teams, not being able to get that contract bc He was jets/coyote property and they were financially hamstrung. Chara, well Ottawa doesn’t pay anyone, and Niedermayer told Lou he wanted to go to Anaheim to play for a cup with his brother.

Players of this caliber just haven’t become available. You have this little window in time where because of lebron and social media and the human rights toward not being any man’s pawn. And these 3 guys have walked themselves into UFA, it’s unparalled, and teams seeing this coming and they are making decisions earlier, so I don’t know if this trend will continue.

But karlsson and panarin are superstars. Tavares scored40/100 behind Matthews. Stamkos the same.

 

[NernieBichols]

He was 31 when he signed as a free agent. He played five more years at a top level and could have played several more.

I was just saying I didn’t name him witg selanne and chara bc he was alil older. That’s all. I agree with yoh bobbop

 

[bobbop]

Ok, let’s break some fresh ground here. We all know that JD will be installed as President of the Rangers in the coming days and much has been made of the possibility of him helping recruit Panarin. Set that aside for a second. What happens if JD comes in and advises Gorton that he should go after Duchesne (either as a fallback or alternate)? He had a chance to watch Duchesne up close the last two and a half months of the season.

I’ve not been a fan of Duchesne and not advocated his signing no matter what happens with Panarin. I will, of course, not be the President of the Rangers.

Thoughts?

(and Uncle Larry, I want a hat tip if you use this)

 

[Leetch3]

I seriously don’t care anymore who we sign or don’t sign as long as this damn discussion goes away

 

[NernieBichols]

Wouldn’t it be interesting if teams/players could decide to use percentage of cap as opposed to an AAV. Like 10% of the cap. So if the cap increase your salary does. We’re saying your a player who should get X percent of our cap.

So to panarin, yes although you can definitely get 10.5 -11 million a year, as if the cap increases, we’d be more than happy to give that extra cash, but in 2019, not knowing, its hard to write off 10.5-11 over 7 years, where if we sign you a contract that pays you an agreed percentage of the cap, that would naturally rise as the cap rises.

Owners and business never go for it. But it’s the fairest way

 

[Irishguy42]

@bobbop It is an interesting thought. I'm sure JD will give his insights into the CBJ FA's.

I wouldn't want to go for Duchene as I don't think he moves the needle more than ZBad does already, whereas Panarin moves the needle way way more than any of our wingers.

But I just don't think JD will immediately want to lay down his own plans. He'll probably let Gorton go through and wrap up his own short-term plans (ie the drafting and offseason plans) and then begin to look at leading the charge going into 19/20, or even further along than that (more long-term)

 

[NernieBichols]

I thought duchene’s season was impressive from a nkt letting the situation In Ottawa affect his play and production in a contract year. That means something in itself, he’s that good and consistent with it, that even in that situation he showed what kind of player he is. And then he was nothing short of impressive assimilating into the jackets and scored some clutch goals and played some hard playoff minutes.

And I wasn’t much of a fan beforehand. Was a fan really early on and that it got kinda stale with him when McKinnon/Roy showed up

 

[Calad]

Ok, let’s break some fresh ground here. We all know that JD will be installed as President of the Rangers in the coming days and much has been made of the possibility of him helping recruit Panarin. Set that aside for a second. What happens if JD comes in and advises Gorton that he should go after Duchesne (either as a fallback or alternate)? He had a chance to watch Duchesne up close the last two and a half months of the season.

I’ve not been a fan of Duchesne and not advocated his signing no matter what happens with Panarin. I will, of course, not be the President of the Rangers.

Thoughts?

(and Uncle Larry, I want a hat tip if you use this)

I don't think Duchene is the same caliber player, I'm not really interested in acquiring him

 

[Synergy27]

If we sign Duchene, can we also get Grachev back in the mix?

 

[aufheben]

It’s going to be funny if/when Florida signs literally everyone and all this debate was for nothing.

 

[Avery16]

You don't see the fallacy in that question? It circles back to the first statement you quoted.

UFA is not a place where 'elite' talent goes. There are a handful, if that, comparable to Panarin. Selanne being one and he performed well past 32.

Selanne can’t be used as proof of anything. 99.8% of humans don’t age or decline the way Selanne did.