Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLII

[TheBloodyNine]

Personally, I'm perfectly fine if that ends up being the case. The reason the Rangers had to pursue free agents in the past runs is because, they did a good job drafting and developing 2nd tier talent, but never getting a chance at the top tier. (Or when they did, they either whiffed - see 2003 and 2010, or fate stepped in - see 2007.) Given the amount of chances that Gorton has given himself in this current run, he's getting ample opportunities to draft those type of players. So, if Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil, Miller, Fox and this year's and next's 1sts become those type of players, then the need to pursue "those type of players" shouldn't really be there.

Perfectly said. No need to sit around and wait for an elite top of the line UFA if you’ve already drafted those players and they are part of your team.

 

[Calad]

Personally, I'm perfectly fine if that ends up being the case. The reason the Rangers had to pursue free agents in the past runs is because, they did a good job drafting and developing 2nd tier talent, but never getting a chance at the top tier. (Or when they did, they either whiffed - see 2003 and 2010, or fate stepped in - see 2007.) Given the amount of chances that Gorton has given himself in this current run, he's getting ample opportunities to draft those type of players. So, if Kakko, Kravtsov, Chytil, Miller, Fox and this year's and next's 1sts become those type of players, then the need to pursue "those type of players" shouldn't really be there.

"Not so fast Lois, a boat's a boat but the mystery box could be anything. It could even be a boat!"

 

[Ghost of jas]

He’s going to Florida, anyway. Am I right?

Hopefully

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

If he only wants to go to LA, NY or FLA then the Islanders make the most sense. LA sucks unless he doesn’t care about winning, the Rangers are on the upswing but still a few years off, and Florida is Florida. Would he want to play in an empty arena every night on a mediocre team? The Islanders are in win now mode after having just made the second round, they need scoring badly, Trotz and Lamoriello are big names, it has Brighton Beach right there.

 

[BBKers]

Extremely Drunk Prpsal

1. Buyout B. Smith
2. Trade Chris Kreider (33% retained) and Brady Skjei for W. Nylander + P. Marleau + a conditional pick in 2020 (based on Kreiders resigning)
3. Trade Vlad Namestnikov (50% retained), #58 plus rights to F. Claesson to TBL for Ryan Callahan and #27 (2019 1st rounder)
4. Trade Neil Pionk plus Bo Nieves to DRW for their #66 (2019 3rd rounder) plus Dominic Turgeon
5. Trade Jimmy Vesey to EDM for Z Bogosian and their 2020 3rd round pic
6. Sign Adam McQuaid and Michael Ferland as UFA
7. Mats Zuccarello resigns in Dallas rendering NYR the Dallas first round pick in 2020

Nylander - Zinbad - Kakko
Marleau (=> Kravtsov) - Chytil/Strome - Buch
Ferland - Howden - Strome/Chytil
Lemmy - Lias - Fast
Callahan, Bogosian

Staal (=> Miller) - TDA
Hajek - Shattenkirk (=> Seider/Lundkvist)
Lindgren/Rykov/Vet - Fox
McQuaid

Hank w Georgie/Shesty taking turns shuffling duties using waiver exempt Wolfpack call ups
Eventually we trade Jesper Fast and/or Ryan Strome at the TDL

Draft ideas
KK @ #2
1st round Winnipeg (#20 OA) - Morris Seider
2nd round Tampa Bay (#58 OA => #27 OA) - Tobias Björnfot
2nd round Dallas (#49 OA) - Pavel Dorofeyev
3rd rounder Traded from Detroit (#66 OA) - Robert Mastrosimone
3rd round NYR (#68 OA) - Albin Grewe
4th round Columbus (#111 OA) - Trevor Janicke
5th round NYR (#130 OA) - Kari Piiroinen
6th round NYR (#161 OA) - Jackson van de Leest
7th round Columbus (#204 OA) - Lucas Feuk

Lots of nice pics in 2020 too

 

[Calad]

If he only wants to go to LA, NY or FLA then the Islanders make the most sense. LA sucks unless he doesn’t care about winning, the Rangers are on the upswing but still a few years off, and Florida is Florida. Would he want to play in an empty arena every night on a mediocre team? The Islanders are in win now mode after having just made the second round, they need scoring badly, Trotz and Lamoriello are big names, it has Brighton Beach right there.

I do agree that NYI would be a good destination for Panarin considering his personal desires, but the islanders are not in win now mode. Eberle, Nelson, Lee, and Lehner are all UFAs and I dont see them all sticking around. They are in the process of unloading the remnants of the Garth Snow era, and they over performed (had the highest PDO in the league) and will likely regress back to the mean.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Extremely Drunk Prpsal

1. Buyout B. Smith
2. Trade Chris Kreider (33% retained) and Brady Skjei for W. Nylander + P. Marleau + a conditional pick in 2020 (based on Kreiders resigning)
3. Trade Vlad Namestnikov (50% retained), #58 plus rights to F. Claesson to TBL for Ryan Callahan and #27 (2019 1st rounder)
4. Trade Neil Pionk plus Bo Nieves to DRW for their #66 (2019 3rd rounder) plus Dominic Turgeon
5. Trade Jimmy Vesey to EDM for Z Bogosian and their 2020 3rd round pic
6. Sign Adam McQuaid and Michael Ferland as UFA
7. Mats Zuccarello resigns in Dallas rendering NYR the Dallas first round pick in 2020

Nylander - Zinbad - Kakko
Marleau (=> Kravtsov) - Chytil/Strome - Buch
Ferland - Howden - Strome/Chytil
Lemmy - Lias - Fast
Callahan, Bogosian

Staal (=> Miller) - TDA
Hajek - Shattenkirk (=> Seider/Lundkvist)
Lindgren/Rykov/Vet - Fox
McQuaid

Hank w Georgie/Shesty taking turns shuffling duties using waiver exempt Wolfpack call ups
Eventually we trade Jesper Fast and/or Ryan Strome at the TDL

Draft ideas
KK @ #2
1st round Winnipeg (#20 OA) - Morris Seider
2nd round Tampa Bay (#58 OA => #27 OA) - Tobias Björnfot
2nd round Dallas (#49 OA) - Pavel Dorofeyev
3rd rounder Traded from Detroit (#66 OA) - Robert Mastrosimone
3rd round NYR (#68 OA) - Albin Grewe
4th round Columbus (#111 OA) - Trevor Janicke
5th round NYR (#130 OA) - Kari Piiroinen
6th round NYR (#161 OA) - Jackson van de Leest
7th round Columbus (#204 OA) - Lucas Feuk

Lots of nice pics in 2020 too

Friends don’t let friends go full Bern.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Extremely Drunk Prpsal

1. Buyout B. Smith
2. Trade Chris Kreider (33% retained) and Brady Skjei for W. Nylander + P. Marleau + a conditional pick in 2020 (based on Kreiders resigning)
3. Trade Vlad Namestnikov (50% retained), #58 plus rights to F. Claesson to TBL for Ryan Callahan and #27 (2019 1st rounder)
4. Trade Neil Pionk plus Bo Nieves to DRW for their #66 (2019 3rd rounder) plus Dominic Turgeon
5. Trade Jimmy Vesey to EDM for Z Bogosian and their 2020 3rd round pic
6. Sign Adam McQuaid and Michael Ferland as UFA
7. Mats Zuccarello resigns in Dallas rendering NYR the Dallas first round pick in 2020

Nylander - Zinbad - Kakko
Marleau (=> Kravtsov) - Chytil/Strome - Buch
Ferland - Howden - Strome/Chytil
Lemmy - Lias - Fast
Callahan, Bogosian

Staal (=> Miller) - TDA
Hajek - Shattenkirk (=> Seider/Lundkvist)
Lindgren/Rykov/Vet - Fox
McQuaid

Hank w Georgie/Shesty taking turns shuffling duties using waiver exempt Wolfpack call ups
Eventually we trade Jesper Fast and/or Ryan Strome at the TDL

Draft ideas
KK @ #2
1st round Winnipeg (#20 OA) - Morris Seider
2nd round Tampa Bay (#58 OA => #27 OA) - Tobias Björnfot
2nd round Dallas (#49 OA) - Pavel Dorofeyev
3rd rounder Traded from Detroit (#66 OA) - Robert Mastrosimone
3rd round NYR (#68 OA) - Albin Grewe
4th round Columbus (#111 OA) - Trevor Janicke
5th round NYR (#130 OA) - Kari Piiroinen
6th round NYR (#161 OA) - Jackson van de Leest
7th round Columbus (#204 OA) - Lucas Feuk

Lots of nice pics in 2020 too

Good luck with the hangover.

 

[Beacon]

Because I expect him to be an elite player through his contract, and unlike what you keep implying, his importance to the team would go well beyond next season.

So he will improve the Rangers and help them rise up the standings in the future years when it benefits us to rise, but he will fail to raise the Rangers up the standings when we'd like to finish lower to get a better prospect? Can we include that clause in his contract? "We give you $11/7, but no helping us win games until we finish rebuilding."

 

[Beacon]

At no point in my post did I say the kids will be putting up 50+ points. I also did not say that we will compete with that roster. The moves make sense because they improve our 1RD, they free up cap space to sign a winger that is better than Kreider, and they put us in a good position to improve. Kakko, Chytil, Lias, Howden and probably Kravtsov will be on this lineup regardless of what you think. It wouldnt make sense to put them all on one line, and as someone mentioned before it wouldnt make sense to put Panarin and Zib together because they are both line drivers. Not a single one of our kids is remotely close to their ceiling, except arguably Zibby is getting close. There not reason to be a condescending ******* just because you do not agree. By all means disagree with me, but dont assume im making claims that I am not. And quite frankly, accusing me of not having a grasp is ridiculously ironic given half the content on these boards.

You had Kakko on the first line, Kravtsov and Chytil in the top-5, Hajek in top-4 - all as rookies or sophomores. And they weren't just plugged into the roles they aren't ready for because we suck, their presence there justified us acquiring Panarin and Subban.

 

[Calad]

So he will improve the Rangers and help them rise up the standings in the future years when it benefits us to rise, but he will fail to raise the Rangers up the standings when we'd like to finish lower to get a better prospect? Can we include that clause in his contract? "We give you $11/7, but no helping us win games until we finish rebuilding."

I really dont get whats so hard to understand about what I said

 

[wafflepadsave]

Mats Zuccarello 'fit like a glove' in Dallas, but will the Stars re-sign the unrestricted free agent?

"I think he was a big part of our success," Nill said. "We'd like to keep him here. We'll have to move forward and see what we can do."

"This is my team right now," Zuccarello said. "We'll see what's going on. Obviously, I'm the kind of guy that when someone believes in you, I usually like that."

"Coach Jim Montgomery saw enough of Zuccarello to want him back, although he deflected a question about lobbying Nill. "I think Jim will do what's best for the Dallas Stars," Montgomery said. "I've already told Zuc that I'd like to have him back. He knows."

Dallas is only two serious injuries from being a lot worse next season.

 

[Beacon]

I really dont get whats so hard to understand about what I said

Because it makes no sense. You're simultaneously arguing that Panarin is a great player well-worth $11 million even years from now, while at the same time arguing that he won't lower our lottery odds by raising the Rangers up the standings. You can't eat your cake and then have it too.

 

[Fugazy]

Extremely Drunk Prpsal

1. Buyout B. Smith
2. Trade Chris Kreider (33% retained) and Brady Skjei for W. Nylander + P. Marleau + a conditional pick in 2020 (based on Kreiders resigning)
3. Trade Vlad Namestnikov (50% retained), #58 plus rights to F. Claesson to TBL for Ryan Callahan and #27 (2019 1st rounder)
4. Trade Neil Pionk plus Bo Nieves to DRW for their #66 (2019 3rd rounder) plus Dominic Turgeon
5. Trade Jimmy Vesey to EDM for Z Bogosian and their 2020 3rd round pic
6. Sign Adam McQuaid and Michael Ferland as UFA
7. Mats Zuccarello resigns in Dallas rendering NYR the Dallas first round pick in 2020

Nylander - Zinbad - Kakko
Marleau (=> Kravtsov) - Chytil/Strome - Buch
Ferland - Howden - Strome/Chytil
Lemmy - Lias - Fast
Callahan, Bogosian

Staal (=> Miller) - TDA
Hajek - Shattenkirk (=> Seider/Lundkvist)
Lindgren/Rykov/Vet - Fox
McQuaid

Hank w Georgie/Shesty taking turns shuffling duties using waiver exempt Wolfpack call ups
Eventually we trade Jesper Fast and/or Ryan Strome at the TDL

Draft ideas
KK @ #2
1st round Winnipeg (#20 OA) - Morris Seider
2nd round Tampa Bay (#58 OA => #27 OA) - Tobias Björnfot
2nd round Dallas (#49 OA) - Pavel Dorofeyev
3rd rounder Traded from Detroit (#66 OA) - Robert Mastrosimone
3rd round NYR (#68 OA) - Albin Grewe
4th round Columbus (#111 OA) - Trevor Janicke
5th round NYR (#130 OA) - Kari Piiroinen
6th round NYR (#161 OA) - Jackson van de Leest
7th round Columbus (#204 OA) - Lucas Feuk

Lots of nice pics in 2020 too

Let’s revisit this in the morning.

 

[SA16]

So then why make the trade?

I wouldn't.

Because it makes no sense. You're simultaneously arguing that Panarin is a great player well-worth $11 million even years from now, while at the same time arguing that he won't lower our lottery odds by raising the Rangers up the standings. You can't eat your cake and then have it too.

I believe his argument is that after the first spot the lottery odds are so flat that if he drops us from like 5th to 9th it is really not that big of a deal (8.5% at 1st versus 5%. 26% top 3 versus 16%).

 

[Avery16]

Extremely Drunk Prpsal

1. Buyout B. Smith
2. Trade Chris Kreider (33% retained) and Brady Skjei for W. Nylander + P. Marleau + a conditional pick in 2020 (based on Kreiders resigning)
3. Trade Vlad Namestnikov (50% retained), #58 plus rights to F. Claesson to TBL for Ryan Callahan and #27 (2019 1st rounder)
4. Trade Neil Pionk plus Bo Nieves to DRW for their #66 (2019 3rd rounder) plus Dominic Turgeon
5. Trade Jimmy Vesey to EDM for Z Bogosian and their 2020 3rd round pic
6. Sign Adam McQuaid and Michael Ferland as UFA
7. Mats Zuccarello resigns in Dallas rendering NYR the Dallas first round pick in 2020

Nylander - Zinbad - Kakko
Marleau (=> Kravtsov) - Chytil/Strome - Buch
Ferland - Howden - Strome/Chytil
Lemmy - Lias - Fast
Callahan, Bogosian

Staal (=> Miller) - TDA
Hajek - Shattenkirk (=> Seider/Lundkvist)
Lindgren/Rykov/Vet - Fox
McQuaid

Hank w Georgie/Shesty taking turns shuffling duties using waiver exempt Wolfpack call ups
Eventually we trade Jesper Fast and/or Ryan Strome at the TDL

Draft ideas
KK @ #2
1st round Winnipeg (#20 OA) - Morris Seider
2nd round Tampa Bay (#58 OA => #27 OA) - Tobias Björnfot
2nd round Dallas (#49 OA) - Pavel Dorofeyev
3rd rounder Traded from Detroit (#66 OA) - Robert Mastrosimone
3rd round NYR (#68 OA) - Albin Grewe
4th round Columbus (#111 OA) - Trevor Janicke
5th round NYR (#130 OA) - Kari Piiroinen
6th round NYR (#161 OA) - Jackson van de Leest
7th round Columbus (#204 OA) - Lucas Feuk

Lots of nice pics in 2020 too

Go home, you’re drunk

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I wouldn't.



I believe his argument is that after the first spot the lottery odds are so flat that if he drops us from like 5th to 9th it is really not that big of a deal (8.5% at 1st versus 5%. 26% top 3 versus 16%).

The 2nd drop off is pretty substantial.

 

[Calad]

Because it makes no sense. You're simultaneously arguing that Panarin is a great player well-worth $11 million even years from now, while at the same time arguing that he won't lower our lottery odds by raising the Rangers up the standings. You can't eat your cake and then have it too.

I've said repeatedly that one player doesn't make a team and we have a lot more holes to fill than just a top line winger. But nah that's okay you can keep ignoring that since clearly it's too difficult to wrap your head around. Sorry I don't want my team to actively try to be worse

 

[BB88]

I know it was. But even McAvoy declining Boston’s offer and being from NY makes him an interesting option. Didn’t say it was going to happen or it could, just said it was an interesting situation

You don't have what it takes, and it sounds like he wants to bet on himself with a bridge.

 

[Calad]

I believe his argument is that after the first spot the lottery odds are so flat that if he drops us from like 5th to 9th it is really not that big of a deal (8.5% at 1st versus 5%. 26% top 3 versus 16%).

Nice to know some people have grasp on simple concepts like reading comprehension here.

Again, as I said, bottom 3 teams are generally excessively terrible or were bit by the injury bug hard.

 

[mas0764]

Which 2Cs can we target? What can Vesey, Namestnikov and possibly Lias Andersson fetch us? Obviously Kreider is our biggest fish, but I do wonder if the three aforementioned players could net us a 2C.


Buyout Smith

Why are we trading Andersson?

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

excellent article:

New York Rangers: Roster issues to deal with soon

 

[Beacon]

I've said repeatedly that one player doesn't make a team and we have a lot more holes to fill than just a top line winger. But nah that's okay you can keep ignoring that since clearly it's too difficult to wrap your head around. Sorry I don't want my team to actively try to be worse

So we will pay Panarin $11/7 even though he alone doesn't move the team up in the standings at all, and we need to add more Panarins in the future so his $11 annual million win us any games at all? Did I get that right? I want you to state it in the most clear and direct language instead of 80% of your response being a personal attack and the rest being a general, indirect statement that says nothing about how many points he delivers.

Please pick one:

1. For $11/7, he doesn't win us any games we couldn't have won with Beleskey in his place.

2. For $11/7, he does help us win games, but it somehow doesn't result in worse lottery odds.

3. For $11/7, he helps us win zero points right now, but he would help in the future and only if we first add more star players.

Please say it directly with a direct statement about how his presence affects our point total.

 

[mas0764]

So why is anyone giving $11×7 to a guy who won't raise them in the standings? Do 2 guys at $5.5 improve the team? Then why is $11 thrown away.

If there's no difference in the standings between playing Panarin/Tavares and playing Lettieri, then why pay an extra $10 and tie yourself into a 7 year term?

You’re being deliberately obtuse.

 

[mas0764]

Because it makes no sense. You're simultaneously arguing that Panarin is a great player well-worth $11 million even years from now, while at the same time arguing that he won't lower our lottery odds by raising the Rangers up the standings. You can't eat your cake and then have it too.

What’s not to get? Not sure why you find this concept so foreign; other than you want to broadcast from every rooftop that you don’t want Panarin. Yes, your position has been noted. This point you are trying to make, however, is just absurd.

Zibanejad is a good player; he didn’t stop us from being 6th worst. So is Kreider; he didn’t stop us from being 6th worst either: Are they not worth their money? Good teams require multiple good pieces to move the needle.

It is completely reasonable to say adding an $11 million player in Panarin but then subtracting Kreider, maybe losing some others as well, less injury luck, and growing pains from the kids, mean we end up about the same.

What’s your point? Are you trying to say why would we do it if he doesn’t move the needle in a rebuilding year? Well Einstein, eventually Kakko and Kravtsov and Chytil will be up and running and producing, and it will be a huge boost to them to also have 30 goal/60 assist Artemi Panarin playing on their line. So in future years, it’s well worth it.

So it can be both a worthwhile expenditure for the future and also not move the needle on this season when you take into account other losses. Not sure what’s not to get about that.

There are plenty of reasons that you can still be against signing Panarin, but your argument is nonsense and is not one of them.