Roster Building Thread - Part XII

[n8]

Find me a 1a goalie making under 5.5…
Wait till next July and show me a top 4 defenseman who’s actually hitting UFA…

This isn’t nhl 25. These things don’t happen.

Linus Ullmark? I mean, he'll sign for more but if you are asking for a 1a goalie who will sign less than 5.5, then yeah. Doubtful to find one. Adin Hill could go under 5.5 but you are no longer in the elite goalie territory. But he is still a starter with a damn cup ring.

Shea Theodore is a top pair dman hitting UFA.
Aaron Ekblad is a top pair dman hitting UFA.
Ivan Provorov is a top pair dman (albeit on a bad team) hitting UFA.
Jakob Chychrun is a top pair dman hitting UFA.

I'm not making any specific counter-point (not following your convo thread) but I don't get your statement. It's like super obvious there are these type of players in the upcoming UFA class. I think someone even called out specifically that Theodore + Hill > Shesty but they'd be wrong in Theodore + Hill AAV <= Shesty's AAV

 

[GAGLine]

This organization's problem is, and always has been, a lack of patience.

February 8th, 2018: The letter
June 17th, 2019: Traded Pionk and a 1st for Trouba
July 1st, 2019: Signed Panarin to 7-year, 81.5 mil contract
July 19th, 2019: Signed Trouba to a 7-year, 56 mil contract

In a matter of a month, we spent a quarter of our cap space on 2 players, a year after we announced we were entering a rebuild. Who does that?

We traded away a bunch of players and got back lots of picks, but we wasted most of them. Andersson, Kravtsov, Lundkvist. Kakko hasn't lived up to expectations. Chytil has progressed but can't stay healthy. Miller has been good, not great. Schneider has been serviceable. Laf will hopefully continue to progress into what we hoped he would be when we drafted him, but he is the only true impact player we added through the draft thus far.

Except for Laf, our top 6 consists entirely of players who are 31 or older and playing on contracts they signed as UFAs. UFAs are always going to cost a premium.

Most rebuilding teams hand the kids the reigns, but we never did that because we don't have any patience. How many teams have selected 1st overall and then not given that player significant PP time?

No, instead we always go for the quick fix, the instant gratification. How many opportunities have we missed out on by jumping the gun with players like Panarin and Trouba? And we just add to the problem by continually throwing away assets for rentals.

If we want to be a winning team, we have to be a smart team. That means not always chasing the biggest names. It means having patience, allowing players to develop a bit before we decide we need to add through free agency. It means maintaining cap flexibility and retaining assets so that when good opportunities come along, we are able to take advantage of them. It means keeping the farm system stockpiled so we can replace older, more expensive players more cheaply. We don't do any of these things, and it's why we don't win.

 

[Daves a mess]

Jackie Redmond recently did an interview with Connor Bedard. She asked him in his " dream world scenario", who would he pick to be his 2 linemates.

He picked Sidney Crosby , and Matthew Barzal.

Instant flashbacks of 2014 for me, sitting on the couch ,and thinking to myself..

Cool. Ryan Gropp.

 

[eco's bones]

For f***s sake there were ar least 2 top 4 dmrn that signed in Nj this offseason. Yes top 4 dmen are signed every single f***ing year. Dont be an idiot. Skjei also signed. And you can make a trade. Were a few of them too

Linus ullmark is under 6m he is a 1a. Whats marksteom at? Around 6 off the top of my head.

I mean the florida panthers were basically constructed like it was ea nhl 25.

Is Brenden Dillon a top 4 defenseman? I guess he could be but I look at him as kind of average.

 

[Ruggs225]

This organization's problem is, and always has been, a lack of patience.

February 8th, 2018: The letter
June 17th, 2019: Traded Pionk and a 1st for Trouba
July 1st, 2019: Signed Panarin to 7-year, 81.5 mil contract
July 19th, 2019: Signed Trouba to a 7-year, 56 mil contract

In a matter of a month, we spent a quarter of our cap space on 2 players, a year after we announced we were entering a rebuild. Who does that?

We traded away a bunch of players and got back lots of picks, but we wasted most of them. Andersson, Kravtsov, Lundkvist. Kakko hasn't lived up to expectations. Chytil has progressed but can't stay healthy. Miller has been good, not great. Schneider has been serviceable. Laf will hopefully continue to progress into what we hoped he would be when we drafted him, but he is the only true impact player we added through the draft thus far.

Except for Laf, our top 6 consists entirely of players who are 31 or older and playing on contracts they signed as UFAs. UFAs are always going to cost a premium.

Most rebuilding teams hand the kids the reigns, but we never did that because we don't have any patience. How many teams have selected 1st overall and then not given that player significant PP time?

No, instead we always go for the quick fix, the instant gratification. How many opportunities have we missed out on by jumping the gun with players like Panarin and Trouba? And we just add to the problem by continually throwing away assets for rentals.

If we want to be a winning team, we have to be a smart team. That means not always chasing the biggest names. It means having patience, allowing players to develop a bit before we decide we need to add through free agency. It means maintaining cap flexibility and retaining assets so that when good opportunities come along, we are able to take advantage of them. It means keeping the farm system stockpiled so we can replace older, more expensive players more cheaply. We don't do any of these things, and it's why we don't win.

Also bad luck. To get 2 top two picks and neither be a center or dman was unfortunate.

Also having them underperform sucks too.

You build a championships with an elite #1C and an elite #1d. Fox is elite, but he is not rugged like other elite d who have won a cup such as Doughty or Hedman. And we dont have that rugged partner for him. Zib is not elite. He is great, but not elite. The hall of very good type player.

In order of importance.
#1 center
#1 d
top 4 strong d core
#2 center
#3 shutdown center
Goalie
Rest of team

 

[Ruggs225]

Is Brenden Dillon a top 4 defenseman? I guess he could be but I look at him as kind of average.

I was actually hesitant to include him at first. But he is also the exact type of dman u want in the playoffs. I think he is going to play top 4 for them.


Either way the main point stands that top 4 dmen are available every year as UFAs

 

[will1066]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843328560955871682

Funny not funny

 

[DialUp]

We are DEAD LAST in the Metro. Something's gotta give. Drury needs to make a move ASAP.

 

[TominNC]

For years Panarin was the best FA signing ever. Now he’s the reason we haven’t won a cup and signing him was a mistake.

People complain we don’t have young guys but then are so impatient with a young defensive core.

As I’ve said before, can’t wait until we squeak into the playoffs and lose in the second round because Joe Schmo in net didn’t win the dice roll that season.

 

[TGWL]

Everyone also assumes that we’ll somehow bolster our talent enough to overcome the lack of Igor.
Well how many high end ufa’s are worth big money.
very Few ufa’s are under 30, worth a 7 year deal and would really help our team.

It's a tough situation for the organization on weighing right now vs the future. We rely heavily on our goaltending and we're trying to win, now. On the opposite side of that, how many of our prospects/young core is going to carry the team for when Igor is in net 5 years after our core is finished? To your point about how hard it is to get a great UFA, how are we competing with Igor, when we most likely need some outstanding UFA signings after the core.

Why do we always get the "stars" that want top dollar?

NY is incredibly expensive.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

unfortunely

You’re right we dont. Bc our core is already suspect. How can u make the core better if you are spending too much on a goalie? Hint you probably cant.

Shesty is not worth 3 or 4 m more than other goalies. He just isnt.

more above avg goalies have won a cup since the cap than a top 5 elite goalie.

and if the difference in cost is 6-8m that is a top line forward or #2 dman. That can make a huge difference. Much more than the difference between.921 and .914

Igor has just under a .930 save parentage in the playoffs.

He is worth his price alone with stats like that in the playoffs.

Most goalies are averaging around .905 in the playoffs.

Your first round knockouts last year:
Talbot (.861), Lindgren (.864), Hellebuyck (.865), Samsonov (.896), Vasilevski (.897), Saros (.900),

2nd round knockouts:
Andersen (.896), Georgiev (.894).

So yea, i will HAPPILY pay igor a few extra million, then get some 2nd line forward for that money or may or may not show up in the playoffs. It's crazy people think we will magically make a better team without him.

 

[SA16]

unfortunely


Igor has just under a .930 save parentage in the playoffs.

He is worth his price alone with stats like that in the playoffs.

Most goalies are averaging around .905 in the playoffs.

Your first round knockouts last year:
Talbot (.861), Lindgren (.864), Hellebuyck (.865), Samsonov (.896), Vasilevski (.897), Saros (.900),

2nd round knockouts:
Andersen (.896), Georgiev (.894).

So yea, i will HAPPILY pay igor a few extra million, then get some 2nd line forward for that money or may or may not show up in the playoffs. It's crazy people think we will magically make a better team without him

And you expect it is likely that he will continue to have a .930 going forward in the playoffs, against stronger competition than the regular season, where his career SV% is .921?

Keep in mind that the career playoff SV% for Hasek is .925, Brodeur .919, Roy .918, Lundqvist .921.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

We have 30 year old Brodzinski who is just becoming an NHL player. Shows the lack of depth with the Rangers relying on a minor leaguer.

Brodz has nothing to do with this anti-Kakko fetish you're obsessed with.

 

[Machinehead]

View attachment 913146

We are DEAD LAST in the Metro. Something's gotta give. Drury needs to make a move ASAP.

I'm curious as to how they came up with this ranking. It's not alphabetical.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

And you expect it is likely that he will continue to have a .930 going forward in the playoffs, against stronger competition than the regular season, where his career SV% is .921?

Um. Yes? Believe it or not, but some players actually play better in the playoffs.

He had a .935 save % vs the Stanely cup Panthers.

I swear some of you don't watch the games.

 

[TGWL]

I'm curious as to how they came up with this ranking. It's not alphabetical.

They follow the UPS tracking packing route. Once in NY, expect it to end up somewhere in PA.

 

[Ruggs225]

unfortunely


Igor has just under a .930 save parentage in the playoffs.

He is worth his price alone with stats like that in the playoffs.

Most goalies are averaging around .905 in the playoffs.

Your first round knockouts last year:
Talbot (.861), Lindgren (.864), Hellebuyck (.865), Samsonov (.896), Vasilevski (.897), Saros (.900),

2nd round knockouts:
Andersen (.896), Georgiev (.894).

So yea, i will HAPPILY pay igor a few extra million, then get some 2nd line forward for that money or may or may not show up in the playoffs. It's crazy people think we will magically make a better team without him.

Yet Skinner (.901) and Bobrovsky (.906) were in the cup final.

Oh and swayman had better stats in the playoffs and just signed for $8.25m

Shesty is not $3-4m better than swayman.

Not a penny more than $10 for shesty, and truthfully should be under $9.5.

That is what the goalie market is set at.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Who does that?

 

[Ruggs225]

I'm curious as to how they came up with this ranking. It's not alphabetical.

Wyshinki? He hates us.

 

[nsvoyageurs]

This organization's problem is, and always has been, a lack of patience.

February 8th, 2018: The letter
June 17th, 2019: Traded Pionk and a 1st for Trouba
July 1st, 2019: Signed Panarin to 7-year, 81.5 mil contract
July 19th, 2019: Signed Trouba to a 7-year, 56 mil contract

In a matter of a month, we spent a quarter of our cap space on 2 players, a year after we announced we were entering a rebuild. Who does that?

We traded away a bunch of players and got back lots of picks, but we wasted most of them. Andersson, Kravtsov, Lundkvist. Kakko hasn't lived up to expectations. Chytil has progressed but can't stay healthy. Miller has been good, not great. Schneider has been serviceable. Laf will hopefully continue to progress into what we hoped he would be when we drafted him, but he is the only true impact player we added through the draft thus far.

Except for Laf, our top 6 consists entirely of players who are 31 or older and playing on contracts they signed as UFAs. UFAs are always going to cost a premium.

Most rebuilding teams hand the kids the reigns, but we never did that because we don't have any patience. How many teams have selected 1st overall and then not given that player significant PP time?

No, instead we always go for the quick fix, the instant gratification. How many opportunities have we missed out on by jumping the gun with players like Panarin and Trouba? And we just add to the problem by continually throwing away assets for rentals.

If we want to be a winning team, we have to be a smart team. That means not always chasing the biggest names. It means having patience, allowing players to develop a bit before we decide we need to add through free agency. It means maintaining cap flexibility and retaining assets so that when good opportunities come along, we are able to take advantage of them. It means keeping the farm system stockpiled so we can replace older, more expensive players more cheaply. We don't do any of these things, and it's why we don't win.

I can't agree with this enough. Signing Panarin and trading/signing Trouba were dumb at the time; they weren't ready to go all in. The Trouba contract looks even worse now. The people running this organization have attention spans of a gnat. Whatever their plan/strategy is/was, if they had one, was and is idiotic.

I agree that the only possible impact player they acquired with all those picks during the rebuild was Lafreniere, and it took him 3 years and 3 coaches to show any sign of getting there. Everyone else either crapped out and/or can't stay healthy; that's on the organization for their failure in developing those young prospects, both in terms of scouting them; not doing their due diligence on their character and their actual development. The players take some responsibility for this too, but the organization didn't do they any favors.

 

[bernmeister]

You're not signing any relevant player to a big contract without trade protection. These are veteran players. They have earned the right to play where they want. Maybe not full control, but partial. It's just not happening. These guys aren't going to risk getting traded to Anaheim or Columbus.

Maybe, but doesn't mean you surrender
He wants accommodation, fine, but so do we.

In any event in this instance, we need to repurpose Shesty and go w/Garand, sooner than later, so it is moot.
He gives us the clauses and we have some cushion or we deal him

 

[B17 Apricots]

Jackie Redmond recently did an interview with Connor Bedard. She asked him in his " dream world scenario", who would he pick to be his 2 linemates.

He picked Sidney Crosby , and Matthew Barzal.

Instant flashbacks of 2014 for me, sitting on the couch ,and thinking to myself..

Cool. Ryan Gropp.

Didnt they say they had Gropp as one of their highest ranking wingers too? Imagine if we had a first that year and they took Ryan Gropp?

 

[bernmeister]

We need Shesty with this core. Once Panarin and Mika and Kreider are gone then next time you can try your average goalie lottery with high paid offensive players. Maybe when Perreault breaks through to replace Panarin. But right now with the extra $6M you need to pay Shesty you're not getting a difference maker. So realistically, for the foreseeable future your best lottery shots at a cup involve Shesty in net.

disagree need Shesty
martians kidnap him today, Garand can adequately hold fort
and Kreider REALLY takes care of himself, so am optimistic another 3-5 years min

bread + zib, just sell as soon as they waive

 

[The Crypto Guy]

disagree need Shesty
martians kidnap him today, Garand can adequately hold fort
and Kreider REALLY takes care of himself, so am optimistic another 3-5 years min

bread + zib, just sell as soon as they waive

Stop.

Garand cannot hold Igor's jock.

 

[IDvsEGO]

I can't agree with this enough. Signing Panarin and trading/signing Trouba were dumb at the time; they weren't ready to go all in. The Trouba contract looks even worse now. The people running this organization have attention spans of a gnat. Whatever their plan/strategy is/was, if they had one, was and is idiotic.

I agree that the only possible impact player they acquired with all those picks during the rebuild was Lafreniere, and it took him 3 years and 3 coaches to show any sign of getting there. Everyone else either crapped out and/or can't stay healthy; that's on the organization for their failure in developing those young prospects, both in terms of scouting them; not doing their due diligence on their character and their actual development. The players take some responsibility for this too, but the organization didn't do they any favors.

We got Trouba first, then Fox.
We had zero rhd and we needed someone to eat the tough minutes.
The Trouba contract is peanuts if there isn’t a pandemic.
The Panarin contract isn’t the squeeze it is if there isn’t a pandemic.

The rangers made logical mover. Panarin didn’t suddenly push us into a middling playoff team ruining the rebuild.
The rangers were targeting guys like zegras and lundell.

We don’t miss on one of Andersson, vk. We have a cup.