Roster Building Thread - Part XII

[Ruggs225]

Dillon's also 33 and signed through age 36. Whether he's top 4 now--debatable one would think that by the end of his 3 year term he won't be. He'll be more like our Goodrow contract only a bit older player.

This is a problem with free agency. You get the younger better ones and you have to give them longer term and lots of money and towards the end of their term you could easily be complaining about their contracts like people complain about Trouba's now. You get the older better free agents and it's shorter terms but they might only be effective for a year or two.

In any case the Rangers didn't have a lot of money to go shopping this free agency. FWIW also though some of our older guys (Panarin, Kreider) are still giving us really good value and Trocheck so far looks great. Panarin blew the doors off in the regular season last year and Kreider's best 3 seasons by far have been his last 3 years and since he turned 30.

As far as the Rangers D--Fox is outstanding and I really like Miller, Schneider, Mancini.....they're all big and mobile. Rather being doing this with younger D than older D.

Yes and shesty is a FA who will turn 30 the first year of his contract. U think he will be elite all 8 years? That contract will be an anchor quicker than trouba if he gets 11+.

As far as dmen. I only like fox and schneider. I cant stand miller. I would have traded his ass two years ago. He is completely overrated and under brained. And mancini played in pre-season only so lets see what happens. I do hope he can turn into at least bottom pair.

I think emery might be a huge missing piece as we still dont have that nasty SOB who is good defensively. But he wont have an impact for at least 3 years.

This team is at a major crossroads. Kreider, panarin, zib are not getting younger. We dont have the #1 center that cup teams have. We have no center prospects.

This team is closer to a big rebuild than many think. Keeping shesty longtermat a high salary wong get us a cup, but will keep us in the mushy middle.

If i were gm i would go all in this year but not trade next years first. If we lose, then this core aint good enough, rip the bandaid off and start selling assets.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

So we are just going to throw anyway any hope of the Cup?

No. Willing to throw away a 1 in 16 chance of winning a cup this season.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

No. Willing to throw away a 1 in 16 chance of winning a cup this season.

I like those odds.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Jackie Redmond recently did an interview with Connor Bedard. She asked him in his " dream world scenario", who would he pick to be his 2 linemates.

He picked Sidney Crosby , and Matthew Barzal.

Instant flashbacks of 2014 for me, sitting on the couch ,and thinking to myself..

Cool. Ryan Gropp.

 

[GAGLine]

No. Willing to throw away a 1 in 16 chance of winning a cup this season.

How many teams are looking for a starting goalie at the trade deadline? Some of the bad ones for sure, but Shesty has a 10-team NTC.

Even if we can trade him, we aren't going to run Quick out there as the starter going into the playoffs, so who are we replacing him with?

 

[Clark Kellogg]

They follow the UPS tracking packing route. Once in NY, expect it to end up somewhere in PA.

A good percentage of my UPS delivery either ends up routed through a town in upstate New York and it’s never scanned again or they gave it to my local post office for final delivery and ends up in their break room.
Hope they’re all enjoying my dual window fan, high end k-cop coffee maker and imported led angel Christmas ornaments

 

[noncents]

I predict Mancini will perform like one of our best 4 defenseman, in however many games he gets into. Long term i am actually very high on the defense. Fox, Miller, Schneider all have tons of experience for young players. There are times of frustration but i expect them to keep improving. Jones is making a believer out of me. We are dying for that kind of offense on the backend. The sooner Lindgren and Trouba gone from this team, the better. They jam everything up. The team needs a veteran top 4 guy who doesnt suck.

Agree - Mancini looks like a godsend and someone who can really grow on that right side.

Make a swing a party vegas/Hanifin for a top 4 LD:

Miller / Fox
Trade / Schneider
Jones / Mancini

is a real corps.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

How many teams are looking for a starting goalie at the trade deadline? Some of the bad ones for sure, but Shesty has a 10-team NTC.

Even if we can trade him, we aren't going to run Quick out there as the starter going into the playoffs, so who are we replacing him with?

That list was submitted on July 1st.
Cup contenders may have goalie injuries?

 

[Daves a mess]

How many teams are looking for a starting goalie at the trade deadline? Some of the bad ones for sure, but Shesty has a 10-team NTC.

Even if we can trade him, we aren't going to run Quick out there as the starter going into the playoffs, so who are we replacing him with?

If this squad is ass at Thanksgiving, and Igors reps are insisting we sit on a 12.5 pole without a cushion, its gonna get real ugly here in Rangerland.

I think he signs tomm. And I'm pretty sure I'm gonna bitch about the number.

So, I'll spare you all my unhappiness and bitch to my wife and Bassethound.

She's 14 and deaf anyway.

My dog, not my wife, you dorks.

10.5x8 or LMA Igor.

 

[Machinehead]

So we are just going to throw anyway any hope of the Cup?

Yes.

It's time to stop hoping and build a team that just does.

 

[GAGLine]

That list was submitted on July 1st.
Cup contenders may have goalie injuries?

I think the bolded is dependent on the language in the contract, but even if that's the case, he can probably identify the teams that will be bad or who obviously need goalies.

Yes, cup contenders may have goalie injuries. Or they may not. And even if they do, it may not be something that will warrant trading for Shesty. If Hellebuyck gets hurt, for example, they aren't going to trade for Shesty as a pure rental. They'll trade for a lesser goalie and take their chances.

And none of that addresses who would play goalie for us, not just for the rest of the year, but going forward. The whole idea about not needing an elite goalie to win the cup is fine, but what no one talks about in that conversation is all the teams who go nowhere year after year because they don't have a quality goalie.

Finding a replacement that is actually good enough to win in the playoffs isn't nearly as easy as people suggest, and shaping the team to win in front of a non-elite goalie isn't going to happen overnight. If we trade Shesty, we'll get worse before we get better, and it could last for years.

Look, I'm not in favor of giving Shesty 12 mil either. I laid out the reasons why I don't think he'll get that earlier in the thread. But I absolutely don't see how we have any other options than to re-sign him.

If this squad is ass at Thanksgiving, and Igors reps are insisting we sit on a 12.5 pole without a cushion, its gonna get real ugly here in Rangerland.

If that happens, Shesty will probably be a big reason why. In any case, that very much changes the dynamic. If we are going to miss the playoffs, then probably no one is off limits.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Considering Drury stinks at evaluating talent and contracts,I’d rather he pay a known quantity in Shesty than have extra money to throw at another Goodrow or Nemeth

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

The 12 million doesnt bother me, its the 8 years.

Why sign a goalie for big money well into his 30s for a team that is going to have nothing but Fox and Lafreniere in 2 or 3 years time?

The core is old. Their window is 1 season pretty much. Not much in the pipeline.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I feel like all Shesty conversations need to be held with respect to the percentage that other goalies signed at for the cap. He’ll be 2 years younger than Hellebuyck when he signed his 7 year deal. There’s also the WPG factor there with him signing an identical deal to Scheifele, so for Igor, that would be an $8.694 AAV if he signs a 9.66% deal for a $90M cap. Vasilevskiy had RFA years in his deal, where he took 11.66%, so that’s $10.494M for Igor.

Other comps:

Bob was 12.27% so that’s $11.043M
Hank was 12.32%, so that’s $11.088
Price was 13.21%, so that’s $11.889

All of these numbers suck, but I’ve accepted that he’s gonna get something akin to Hank’s deal. They key is gonna be limiting the bad contracts that follow, so that’ll be contingent on making sure Lindgren doesn’t get some stupid extension and that they don’t waste the space opened up by Trouba’s deal ending on some bad player. Outside of that, the cap sheet is pretty clean besides Mika.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

24 year old with 7 NHL games. 4 AHL seasons and hasn't been able to break into their lineup. Doesn't mean he won't with Vegas but Knoblauch did great for the Oilers after they poached him out of Hartford last year.

Never got a chance at all. Vegas stole a guy today.

 

[E-Train]

Vesey when healthy? IMO this is going to be 5 man rotation/competition that should make the team better and less prone to being affected by injuries. The weaker depth is in top-9 (which is kind of natural by definition) because Othman (and Berard) still seems further away than what we were hoping for from him in camp but both Brodzinski and Vesey could be plugged in higher roles.

Drury will have to make some decisions when Vesey is healthy. After this camp and nearly 24, Edstrom should not be going back to the A. Berard is fine as middle 6 depth with that element of speed. I don’t think Othmann getting another half season in Hartford is a problem either.

 

[kovazub94]

Drury will have to make some decisions when Vesey is healthy. After this camp and nearly 24, Edstrom should not be going back to the A. Berard is fine as middle 6 depth with that element of speed. I don’t think Othmann getting another half season in Hartford is a problem either.

Having Edstrom and Rempe freely moving between Hartford and NY is a benefit to take advantage of. Vesey is still a better player than the former two and he’s a type of depth GMs are looking for at TDL so I don’t have a problem with numbers game forcing some “demotion” decisions.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

A good percentage of my UPS delivery either ends up routed through a town in upstate New York and it’s never scanned again or they gave it to my local post office for final delivery and ends up in their break room.
Hope they’re all enjoying my dual window fan, high end k-cop coffee maker and imported led angel Christmas ornaments

Interesting....I've had a problem like this with my PO for decades......I've ordered stuff that's supposed to be sent UPS only to find out that it's been handed off to USPS who WILL NOT deliver packages....nor do they return them so that I can get refunds. I dropped Amazon and Walmart over this....they would not help and all they had to do was recall the packages.

I feel for you, CK.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I feel like all Shesty conversations need to be held with respect to the percentage that other goalies signed at for the cap. He’ll be 2 years younger than Hellebuyck when he signed his 7 year deal. There’s also the WPG factor there with him signing an identical deal to Scheifele, so for Igor, that would be an $8.694 AAV if he signs a 9.66% deal for a $90M cap. Vasilevskiy had RFA years in his deal, where he took 11.66%, so that’s $10.494M for Igor.

Other comps:

Bob was 12.27% so that’s $11.043M
Hank was 12.32%, so that’s $11.088
Price was 13.21%, so that’s $11.889

All of these numbers suck, but I’ve accepted that he’s gonna get something akin to Hank’s deal. They key is gonna be limiting the bad contracts that follow, so that’ll be contingent on making sure Lindgren doesn’t get some stupid extension and that they don’t waste the space opened up by Trouba’s deal ending on some bad player. Outside of that, the cap sheet is pretty clean besides Mika.

The cap is also going to go much higher in the next few years than it did in those years. That's got to be taken into consideration as well.

 

[E-Train]

Having Edstrom and Rempe freely moving between Hartford and NY is a benefit to take advantage of. Vesey is still a better player than the former two and he’s a type of depth GMs are looking for at TDL so I don’t have a problem with numbers game forcing some “demotion” decisions.

I don’t see Laviolette moving Rempe freely between NY and Hartford. It would be a shame if it happens to Edstrom.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Vesey, by dint of being on LTIR, is now guaranteed to miss the first 10 games and 24 days of the regular season. The Rangers will save $800,000 against the cap with his absence, however, allowing them some extra flexibility in shaping the roster.

-Brooks



Vesey out the first 10 games after he was placed on the LTIR today.

 

[Greg02]

Vesey, by dint of being on LTIR, is now guaranteed to miss the first 10 games and 24 days of the regular season. The Rangers will save $800,000 against the cap with his absence, however, allowing them some extra flexibility in shaping the roster.

-Brooks



Vesey out the first 10 games after he was placed on the LTIR today.

Wait, did the rules change? I thought LTIR allows you to exceed the cap, but doesn't help you bank space.

 

[IDvsEGO]

Wait, did the rules change? I thought LTIR allows you to exceed the cap, but doesn't help you bank space.

only if you're over the cap.
The rangers aren't going over the cap because they're sending so many down.

 

[Ruggs225]

The cap is also going to go much higher in the next few years than it did in those years. That's got to be taken into consideration as well.

So did boston, nashville and winnepeg consider that this year. And they signed their goalies to reasonable contracts. So should we.

What shesty wants is not reasonable or wise

 

[GAGLine]

Wait, did the rules change? I thought LTIR allows you to exceed the cap, but doesn't help you bank space.

No, the rules are the same, just Brooks mischaracterizing how it works.

We are shuffling people around so we can get as close as possible to the cap limit before placing Vesey on LTIR. That will maximize the amount of LTIR cap space we create.

However, what we don't know is how many players we will actually carry and how much we will spend against the cap on day 1 due to the injuries. When everyone is healthy, we can carry 23 players and still be under the cap. With Vesey and Lindgren hurt, we already have the spares to replace them, but Drury/Lavi may want an extra dman in case someone gets hurt in warmups or something, especially since we start on the road. In that case, we will be spending over the cap, using LTIR space, and not accruing.