Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XII

[RangerBoy]

Does Dallas want Namestnikov or Spooner? They really need anyone who can produce outside of their big 3.

The Stars beat writer for The Athletic Sean Shapiro was on the NHL Network a few days ago. He was talking about that topic and Jim Nill can’t wait until the trade deadline to address that need.

Both of those players are signed for next season if Nill doesn’t want a rental.

That division and conference are so competitive that they can’t really fall far behind. Waiting until February might be too late.

Brooks wrote something about Gorton declaring himself as a seller sooner than he did last season. That’s why so many teams showed up at the Rangers game last season.

The only rental trade ever made early in season was the Vanek for Moulson trade. Two rentals traded for each other. The Islanders sent a 1st and 2nd to Buffalo as part of the deal.

Gorton would beat the rush of teams declaring themselves sellers in February.

The Rangers already know what they want to do.

 

[NY Lito]

The Rangers always try to hedge from being awful. They want to rebuild and be competitive at the same time. When has that ever worked?

Never. Every past or current contender bottomed out and got a handful of top 5/10 picks with a 1st OA. Hawks, Pens, Leafs, Lightning, etc.

Our rebuild is truly just starting because we don’t have that franchise changing piece yet, ala Malkin, Kane, Stamkos, Matthews, Laine, etc.

Hughes could be that guy. And IF we got him, it would just be the start.

I’m content with our current prospects, but I’m also not saying “Boy in 3 years we are set.” Because we’re not. We need that piece (at least one).

 

[TheTakedown]

We can retain also correct? Reduce that cap hit further. I don't think he's part of a solution for us... just hoping to get another asset for him this yr or next.

No he is already at 50% salary retention. No further retention can be done

 

[Inferno]

No he is already at 50% salary retention. No further retention can be done

You can retain twice on a contract.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Are the rangers trying to be competitive? Its 10 games in and they have good players that they would like to flip for better assets. They can't scratch Zucc and Hayes for a tank while trying to boost their value. They would have moved players if the return was there. They are playing Staal, does that hurt the standings? Henrik controls his destiny.
I've seen it so often, but have we looked objectively to see if they are transitioning/retooling or is this a true rebuild? And I'm not talking about a letter to season ticket holders.

 

[NY Lito]

Are the rangers trying to be competitive? Its 10 games in and they have good players that they would like to flip for better assets. They can't scratch Zucc and Hayes for a tank while trying to boost their value. They would have moved players if the return was there. They are playing Staal, does that hurt the standings? Henrik controls his destiny.
I've seen it so often, but have we looked objectively to see if they are transitioning/retooling or is this a true rebuild? And I'm not talking about a letter to season ticket holders.

It has to be a true rebuild. This roster is just bad. I think they want to be competitive in the sense of playing hard and learning DQs system, but the talent simply isn’t there. Still only 10 games in. A lot of our current players will be gone come season’s end.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Does Dallas want Namestnikov or Spooner? They really need anyone who can produce outside of their big 3.

The Stars beat writer for The Athletic Sean Shapiro was on the NHL Network a few days ago. He was talking about that topic and Jim Nill can’t wait until the trade deadline to address that need.

Both of those players are signed for next season if Nill doesn’t want a rental.

That division and conference are so competitive that they can’t really fall far behind. Waiting until February might be too late.

Brooks wrote something about Gorton declaring himself as a seller sooner than he did last season. That’s why so many teams showed up at the Rangers game last season.

The only rental trade ever made early in season was the Vanek for Moulson trade. Two rentals traded for each other. The Islanders sent a 1st and 2nd to Buffalo as part of the deal.

Gorton would beat the rush of teams declaring themselves sellers in February.

The Rangers already know what they want to do.

What about LA? They’re dying for scoring help too. Too lazy to look up their cap situation.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

It has to be a true rebuild.

Gorton was quoted saying he wants more picks and he wants to continue getting younger. I'm worried they try and half ass it too, but so far Gorton has stayed the course. I think we'll see more movement this year too.

There are 2, maybe 3 potential franchise players next draft. We need to finally pick in the top-3. Each pick at the draft should be a boom/bust pick. This team needs playmakers and finishers.

 

[DutchShamrock]

It has to be a true rebuild. This roster is just bad. I think they want to be competitive in the sense of playing hard and learning DQs system, but the talent simply isn’t there. Still only 10 games in. A lot of our current players will be gone come season’s end.

Yeah, basically there is a lot of, for lack of a better word, complaining about the team's approach. But they aren't good, they aren't trying to improve, play the universally viewed worst player every game, and the coach values effort in practice over points in the game.

People have the right to voice their displeasure, but maybe the team is actually doing what we want.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I think we'll see the first flurry of trades happen in mid November when the league is about a quarter done with the season. Teams that thought they would be competitive but having isssues can still recover at that point and would look to shake things up.

 

[Tawnos]

I think we'll see the first flurry of trades happen in mid November when the league is about a quarter done with the season. Teams that thought they would be competitive but having isssues can still recover at that point and would look to shake things up.

Yeah, and teams will continue to look all the way through the deadline. For example, the Klein for Del Zotto trade happened in January.

 

[East Coast Bias]

Yeah, and teams will continue to look all the way through the deadline. For example, the Klein for Del Zotto trade happened in January.

Dolan wanted to get rid of MDZ before the remodel was complete so he didn’t have to extend the netting up to the Chase Bridges to protect ppl from MDZ shots

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Is there anyone that would take Staal at 50% retained? I'd rather do that then buy him out.

 

[NY Lito]

Is there anyone that would take Staal at 50% retained? I'd rather do that then buy him out.

I doubt it. Agree on the point though.

 

[RGY]

I disagree that he isn't a top 3 player. I think he does drive play between the circles and I would gamble that as he progresses from his first 3 seasons he will improve and drive play more.

Dont bother. Bottom line is William Nylander is soft. That was his main driving argument no matter how he tries to spin it now.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The Rangers always try to hedge from being awful. They want to rebuild and be competitive at the same time. When has that ever worked?

They want to be competitive in the sense that they aren't getting their doors blown off every night.

They had every opportunity to become a middling (or slightly better) team this summer, they didn't take it, much to the dismay of some who didn't want to rebuild in the first place and the Zuccettes who wanted to be competitive now so that the God of their idolatry sticks around. You don't have to lose every game 5-1 to be a bad team. This team has been in almost every game this year, but they clearly suck - That will only become more clear as the season goes on, injuries happen, Hank stops standing on his head and other teams pick their game up.

If the rest of the season goes the way the first 10 games have (hard working "competitive" hockey which hasn't manifested in wins), I'll be f***ing thrilled and you should be too.

 

[GAGLine]

Is there anyone that would take Staal at 50% retained? I'd rather do that then buy him out.

Than, not then. Sorry, but 99% of the internet gets that wrong and it annoys me.

If you look at Girardi, he had 3 years left when we bought him out at 5.5 mil per year. If someone had taken him at 50%, that would have been 2.75 mil for 3 years. Instead we bought him out and Tampa signed him for 2 years @ 3 mil per year. Obviously that extra year mattered.

Staal has 3 years left, counting this year, and I don't think any team will take him at the deadline. He isn't the kind of player that any team is going to be looking for at the deadline, unless they just want depth, but they would be looking for an expiring contract in that case, like a McQuaid. In the offseason, with only 2 years left? Maybe.

We have 4 years left on Girardi's buyout after this year, with only 1 of those years being a high number. If we were to buyout Staal next summer, his buyouts would line up with Girardi's, with both coming off the books at the same time. It would look like this:

2019
Girardi: 3.611111
Staal: 2.9

2020
Girardi: 1.111111
Staal: 3.7

2021
Girardi: 1.111111
Staal: 1.2

2022
Girardi: 1.111111
Staal: 1.2

Now, the question is, should we buy out Staal next summer (assuming we can't trade him at 50%). I don't think we are going to need the cap space. It's possible that all of Hayes, Zucc, Spooner and Namestnikov will be traded. We may end up taking back salary in those deals, but I would think that overall we'd lower our cap commitments going into next year. McQuaid will be traded. Smith could be traded. The only players left who will need new contracts will be Buch, Pionk and DeAngelo, and none of them are going to break the bank.

We may need the roster spot, though, with young players pushing for jobs. I think barring injury, if Staal is on the roster, he's going to play, so if we feel like we need to open a spot for the kids, I could see buying him out. It isn't a case where we'll be able to wait until training camp, because by then it's too late to buy him out.

If we can find a taker for him at 50% in the offseason, absolutely do it. If not, buying him out isn't a terrible option.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

The Rangers need to take advantage of teams with high hopes and bad starts. Make them make a knee jerk reaction.

 

[GAGLine]

They want to be competitive in the sense that they aren't getting their doors blown off every night.

They had every opportunity to become a middling (or slightly better) team this summer, they didn't take it, much to the dismay of some who didn't want to rebuild in the first place and the Zuccettes who wanted to be competitive now so that the God of their idolatry sticks around. You don't have to lose every game 5-1 to be a bad team. This team has been in almost every game this year, but they clearly suck - That will only become more clear as the season goes on, injuries happen, Hank stops standing on his head and other teams pick their game up.

If the rest of the season goes the way the first 10 games have (hard working "competitive" hockey which hasn't manifested in wins), I'll be ****ing thrilled and you should be too.

Exactly. Look at Detroit. Does anyone really want that kind of bad? It's great for the lottery, but bad for developing players. Players need to get at least some reward for their efforts, not only so they can feel good about their own game, but so they can feel good about the systems being employed and the direction the team is heading. We are currently on pace for 57 points, which in previous years (since 2005) would put us in the bottom 3, and bottom 2 in most cases.

Even if we end up with the 4th or 5th pick after the lottery, I think we will get a great player.

 

[bobbop]

Definitely don't want Grabner for 3 years.

He was really good for us in an AV counter system. One of the few players that played better for AV.

Wouldn't have nearly the same success with our current team. And we'd have him for an extra year over Names.

Grabner is the exact same player in AZ that he was in NY...very streaky. He missed on two breakaways in one game earlier this week. Sooner or later they will start going in. Nevertheless, no thanks on a reunion. The Rangers have bigger fish to fry.

 

[RangerBoy]

Shestyorkin signs his 2 year ELC in May. He turns 23 this December 30

9.2 Age of Players. As used in this Article, "age," including "First SPC Signing Age," means a Player's age on September 15 of the calendar year in which he signs an SPC, regardless of his actual age on the date he signs such SPC.

22-23 year olds sign 2 year ELC's.

The 2 year ELC coincides with the last two seasons of Lundqvist's contract.

How is Lundqvist going to react losing starts to Shestyorkin?

Figure there will be an adjustment period for Shestyorkin.

Lundqvist still believes the Rangers will be able to win with him on the team. Kevin Weekes was on the NHL Network the Monday after the Edmonton game. Weekes still speaks to Lundqvist. He said the King still believes he can win in New York but Weekes doesn't think that's going to happen.

If the young Russian comes here and shows he can play at a high level, Quinn has to give him most of the starts.

What does Lundqvist do then?

A trade out of NY is the best solution for both parties.

Lundqvist holds all of the cards with his NMC.

There are teams looking for upgrades in goal.

Going forward. The Rangers will go with the younger Shestyorkin at a lower price than the $8.5M allocated to Lundqvist.

How much will it cost for Shestyorkin's 2nd NHL contract? It won't $8.5M.

 

[bobbop]

Is there anyone that would take Staal at 50% retained? I'd rather do that then buy him out.

No chance anyone would take him and no chance he would move during the season. He has a NMC. He is ballast at this point.

 

[bobbop]

Shestyorkin signs his 2 year ELC in May. He turns 23 this December 30



22-23 year olds sign 2 year ELC's.

The 2 year ELC coincides with the last two seasons of Lundqvist's contract.

How is Lundqvist going to react losing starts to Shestyorkin?

Figure there will be an adjustment period for Shestyorkin.

Lundqvist still believes the Rangers will be able to win with him on the team. Kevin Weekes was on the NHL Network the Monday after the Edmonton game. Weekes still speaks to Lundqvist. He said the King still believes he can win in New York but Weekes doesn't think that's going to happen.

If the young Russian comes here and shows he can play at a high level, Quinn has to give him most of the starts.

What does Lundqvist do then?

A trade out of NY is the best solution for both parties.

Lundqvist holds all of the cards with his NMC.

There are teams looking for upgrades in goal.

Going forward. The Rangers will go with the younger Shestyorkin at a lower price than the $8.5M allocated to Lundqvist.

How much will it cost for Shestyorkin's 2nd NHL contract? It won't $8.5M.

I think it’s more likely that Lundqvist retires and goes home to finish his career in Sweden.

 

[I Eat Crow]

It's not impossible, but it's not at all likely that the Rangers are contending for the playoffs again in Lundqvist's last year of his current contract. Namestnikov, Spooner, et al. were signed for two years to provide warm bodies at the NHL level so the younger guys didn't have so much pressure on them to learn on the fly playing big minutes in the NHL. Chytil and Howden are playing sheltered minutes and developing in the NHL, which is fine, though they should be in the AHL playing 20 minutes a night in all situations, IMO.

It's marginally possible, but not likely, that the Rangers catch lightning in a bottle in 2020-21 and contend. The Rangers will have a top 5 draft pick next June. An additional 1st rounder and two 2nd rounders, at least. The guys drafted this year will have played two seasons since being drafted. Some will be ready to contribute by then. Others such as Lundkvist, Ragnarsson, Lindbom, maybe Miller will still be marinating with their current teams. The top 5 pick from this year will be in the NHL by 2020-21 barring catastrophe. Kravtsov will hopefully be in the NHL and contributing by then. Dead weight like Staal, Smith, et al. will be off the team one way or another. Chris Bigras whom was acquired for Ryan Graves has bounced back and looks really good in Hartford. He'll provide excellent bottom pairing value once a spot opens up for him. Hajek will hopefully be on the team and contributing by then as well if his development continues.

You just know that Lundqvist is going to be pushing for one last "hurrah" in 2020-21. He's going to pressure Gorton and Dolan into opening up the piggy bank for his good friend Erik Karlsson and Artemi Panarin. The latter wants to play in LA, Florida, or New York. Areas with large Russian communities. He'll feel right at home in Brooklyn making over $8 million a year living the good life in Brighton Beach.

This is the year the Rangers bottom out. Next season is a transition year in which Quinn's system is able to be almost fully implemented is way once the stench of AV is exorcised from this roster and beat out of the heads of the incumbents still here. Likely another top 10 pick in 2020. Looking like a very strong defensive draft at the top. A little lottery luck and the Rangers can end up with one of Hughes, Kakko, Dach, Cozens, Podkolzin, or Bryam, and one of LaFreniere, Byfield, Barron, Drysdale Raymond, Rossi, or Perfetti. Snagging LaFreniere or Hughes, in addition to double swooping for Panarin and Karlsson would transform this team in under two years.

 

[pld459666]

I still believe we were stupid for giving a goalie that much money.

That position is not worth the type of cap allocation