Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[Rangerboy030]

The Caps purchased CapFriendly, that f***ing sucks.

One more reason to dislike that dogwater franchise.

Hopefully someone makes an alternative that allows cap analysis of every team except the Capitals.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You apparently missed every forecheck play that fox peeled off the puck trying to outsmart the pressure by trying to get them to do a flyby on a missed hit or the dozens of times he was just flat out out-muscled on those puck retrievals.

It was clear as day (especially with fox slower than normal with the bad leg) that Lindy was to go back and get the puck as much as possible and if Fox was open Lindy was supposed to rim it to him. Eventually teams caught on to this and to how limited fox was.

There were plenty of tims the puck was chipped into fox's side and Lindy crossed to the right corner to retrieve bc he could get there faster AND he was taking the contact to save fox from extra abuse. And through it all fox does nothing to hold up forecheckers, ever

As for the splits when the the are separated, did you ever consider that the only times they were split with regularity was late in games protecting a lead Lindy was paired with trouba when naturally the other team would possess it more, and when fox was paired with miller it was later in games when NYR was pressing to tie games and possessing more. Convenient to ignore situational usage and pairings. Sorry

Dude this is how they've been attacked as a pair since the beginning of time lol. This isn't brand new tactical stuff or something that was deployed in the playoffs only after Fox got hurt. It was more magnified this year because Lindgren himself regressed heavily.

Even if it was related to Fox's knee, Lindgren wasn't capable of picking up the slack and thats kind of the point. Someone playing that high in the lineup should be able to do it a hell of a lot better than he can. Plus lets not act like we didn't watch Lindgren beef easy exits all season.

And no the situational stuff doesn't really hold. Lindgren played a half an hour away from Fox in these playoffs 5v5 and got murdered unlike I've seen anyone get murdered at this level. Not all of those came protecting a lead late with Trouba (those were usually 5v6 and don't get factored in.) Yeah, occasional extended shifts at the end of a PK with Trouba sure, but not half an hour+ worth. Sorry.

 

[bhamill]

No shot he’ll sign an 8 year deal. He’ll sign a 6 year deal and hit ufa at 29 so he can cash in again. Typically 1OA picks get the 8 year after ELC. He didnt. So he’ll take 6 so he can get 2 monster contracts

I wouldn’t say NO shot, it depends on the AAV. If he’s so good he’d get a second monster contract at 29, he’d also get one at 31.

 

[kovazub94]

Wouldn't mind a late 1st for Lindgren.

Teams that would be interested are likelier to have early 2nd than late 1st.

Ha where did I say that you said they need a fox level player? I didn't so stop throwing that stuff around.

….

Hmmm, did you not say top level defenseman and then went on to mention how lucky the Rangers were to find Fox?

P.S. Fox’s partner doesn’t need to be that.

 

[bernmeister]

Who gives a f*** what Messier says?

Do you know who the coach is?

Did you see how he was barely played at the ends of games?

His spot would've been better utilized by a player the coach would've played more. Maybe a switch to 7D after G3 to give the injured defenseman more of a breather.

There is a logical opinion rather than you just looking to call yourself correct because people on TV said something you like.

let's start w/what should be obvious
everyone -- you, me, Messier, etc etc -- all have a right to an opinion

the extent to which one prevails is based on merit
you have to bend, buckle and break and yield to the truth of that fact
or you will remain outside the bounds of reality

Now, what arguments here have merit.?
Messier's opinion, which here I concur, is based on visual evidence confirming value of Rem
You can ignore/dispute that evidence as a matter of free speech, but then recognize that what comes with the territory is you getting called out.

Lavi, who does not and is not entitled to any further gravitas simply b'c he is the coach. He was wrong to reject both the fact that Rs won WAAAYYY mo w/Rem than without him, AND that his physical play WAS part of what was needed to deal w/Panthers.

You apparently need more outside objective review on this, so here:

How should the Rangers utilize their top enforcer next season?

The New York Rangers had one of the most exciting rookies join their roster late this season in the form of enforcer Matt Rempe. He quickly became a cult favorite, as his big hits and frequent fights brought the Blueshirts some much-needed spotlight.

www.yardbarker.com

I may disagree with an odd statement or 2, but basically that article is spot on.

Move over Dorothy
surrender

 

[Fitzy]

A 2nd and 3rd rounder for Lindgren would be my target, fills our draft allotment back to more-or-less full.

I could see Jesse Pulkkinen dropping to us in the 2nd round, who would be an excellent new top D prospect for this team.

 

[Zynbanejad]

We need Brady Tkachuk. I'd offer a lot for him tbh. Look at Florida after they traded a softie for his brother.

 

[Levitate]

Ha where did I say that you said they need a fox level player? I didn't so stop throwing that stuff around.

You want to replace Lindgren, Lindgren is on the first pair, fox is on the first pair, you want to replace Lindgren on the first pair to put another player with fox. THAT is a first pair d man. That's what I referenced, not a number 1 d man.

NHL teams rarely ever trade 1st pairing D men unless they are approached ufa and won't resign. That's exactly what I said before and it's still accurate. 1st pair d men are no always identified as the best in a vacuum, not everyone can play 20+mins a night.

People ignore that Lindgren is to fix what methot was to peak karlsson. He isnt perfect and neither was methot, but methot was perfect for karlsson, beukeboom was perfect for leetch, Lindgren compliments fox.

Sometimes I think people are too blinded to how good fox is on the offensive side of the redline that they lose perspective of just how bad he is in his own zone on zone exits under pressure and one on one coverage and board battles. It comes with being a small, below average skating defenseman but he makes up for so much with his hockey IQ reads. People wonder why Lindgren gets hurt so much, part of it is fox does NOTHING to hold up forecheckers when Lindgren goes back for the puck, and under pressure he is usually the first guy back kicking it to fox bc he's faster than fox. It's amazing how many people can't see how to deficiencies in Fox and the areas he cheats need to be made up for and that is sort of why it's easy to hate on Lindgren.

Man this is a bad post with bad player analysis

Just bad all around.

 

[Atax]

Sometimes I'm convinced some of the posters here are early AI tests to see how they do on message boards.

 

[NYR Viper]

A 2nd and 3rd rounder for Lindgren would be my target, fills our draft allotment back to more-or-less full.

I could see Jesse Pulkkinen dropping to us in the 2nd round, who would be an excellent new top D prospect for this team.

I'd be hoping for more than that but I'm okay with picks.

Even if Lindgren is just a 4/5 d-man, a team is still getting him for what is likely at least the next 4 years during his prime. He's a leader and a warrior and would fit in well in the right group.

In saying that, with the Rangers he just can't slot appropriately.

I'd be hoping for a 2nd this year, a 3rd this year and a 2nd next year. this is why I keep bringing up Utah for Lindgren. They literally have NO defensemen signed for next season, Durzi, Valimaki and Moser are RFA's and here are their picks

Hell, I'd take Utah's 2nd '24, the Rangers 2nd '25 and the Rangers 3rd '25.

 

[NYRKing]

I’d be surprised if there was a major subtraction from the roster. lol at Zibby being traded.

- Goody is a cap casualty, tho I’m sure Drury still wants to keep him
-Lindgren will be resigned. Too valuable.
- The plug n play RW experiment is done. Laff wins and the rest lose. IMO KK will still be a good mid 6 winger but Drury can use the cash, roster spot and assets to get someone with more of an immediate impact.

 

[Atax]

I’d be surprised if there was a major subtraction from the roster. lol at Zibby being traded.

- Goody is a cap casualty, tho I’m sure Drury still wants to keep him
-Lindgren will be resigned. Too valuable.
- The plug n play RW experiment is done. Laff wins and the rest lose. IMO KK will still be a good mid 6 winger but Drury can use the cash, roster spot and assets to get someone with more of an immediate impact.

In what world is Lindgren too valuable? Please defend that.

 

[Levitate]

In what world is Lindgren too valuable? Please defend that.

People are just way too stuck on the idea of him complementing fox

Rangers can plug someone else in there and it’d be fine. They should get someone better

There’s nothing unique or special about lindgren except being the devil you know and history (which has proven the rangers should do better than him on the top pair)

 

[UnSandvich]

For the people who think we have to hold onto Lindgren b/c of his "chemistry" with Fox, look at how Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar, and Charlie McAvoy all improved substantially once their D partner was upgraded. If we can get say Shea Theodore to partner with Fox, we should absolutely be looking at doing so

 

[noncents]

as has been said here a lot - lindgren himself isn't the whole issue. No he's not very good, but he is a warrior and good team guy and can skate a bit and Chara said he was good.

he's not that good and won't be worth what he's making after this year. but that's only half of it.

the main half is that if he's in a ranger sweater he's playing top line minutes next to Adam Fox. there's no way he's not playing in that slot.

and that deployment actively hurts the team, both defensively but especially offensively. possession after possession dies on his stick.

I don't think we're as far away from 5v5 competency, if not dominance, as we looked during carolina and florida series. we need defensemen 4-6 who can minimize heavy zone time against by getting the puck out cleanly AND we need defensemen who can support our top lines in the O zone. Our forward talent up front is pretty much there to facilitate offense. tweaking deployment, lines, forechecking strategy etc. can help but we need o zone support from the back end to dominate possessions like we see Florida and Carolina do, like Tampa used to.

 

[Vitto79]

For the people who think we have to hold onto Lindgren b/c of his "chemistry" with Fox, look at how Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar, and Charlie McAvoy all improved substantially once their D partner was upgraded. If we can get say Shea Theodore to partner with Fox, we should absolutely be looking at doing so

True I’d play Miller with Fox

Maybe they can get a 1st like Skjei did ?

 

[Zynbanejad]

Does Mika have a NTC or NMC?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Cant wait till we trade Lindgren, a decent middle pair defenseman who really shouldnt be on the top pair, only to then overpay a player 2M+ more than his contract and will be same player. All to get a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Then we will trade that pick for toughness at the deadline that we lost from losing him.

Rango logic.

 

[DelZottoHitTheNetJK]

Have we discussed potentially bringing back Patty Kane on the cheap to put with DJ marshmallow.amd CK?

Don't know if he would take another 1x2.75 but you gotta Believe if he wants to win again coming to NYR would be a decent bet

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Ryan Lindgren away from Fox 5v5 in the playoffs was the equivalent of being on a PK.

It is very, very, very hard not to do better.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Ryan Lindgren away from Fox 5v5 in the playoffs was the equivalent of being on a PK.

It is very, very, very hard not to do better.

How big was the sample size? They are always together.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Ryan Lindgren away from Fox 5v5 in the playoffs was the equivalent of being on a PK.

It is very, very, very hard not to do better.

It’s a 38min sample split randomly across the playoffs compared to their 200+min together. He wasn’t good, but let’s please not use extremely cherrypicked numbers and small samples to make these claims

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

How big was the sample size? They are always together.

38 minutes.

It’s a 38min sample split randomly across the playoffs compared to their 200+min together. He wasn’t good, but let’s please not use extremely cherrypicked numbers and small samples to make these claims

38 minutes isn't insignificant through 3 rounds.

Do we need to do an entire career sample size? Because that one isn't good either.

Or how about Fox's almost hour away from Lindgren in this same run?

 

[Overcast]

It’s a 38min sample split randomly across the playoffs compared to their 200+min together. He wasn’t good, but let’s please not use extremely cherrypicked numbers and small samples to make these claims

At what point can you evaluate playoff play, then? If they "only" play ~15-20 games a post-season and "only" play ~300-350 minutes in their post-season, do you always just say "Nope too small of a sample size to look at"? You have to work with what you're given and what you've seen, which is what the team does in the playoffs. And it hasn't been great re: Lindgren+Fox. This year's playoffs weren't the only indication of that.

 

[NYR Viper]

For the people who think we have to hold onto Lindgren b/c of his "chemistry" with Fox, look at how Quinn Hughes, Cale Makar, and Charlie McAvoy all improved substantially once their D partner was upgraded. If we can get say Shea Theodore to partner with Fox, we should absolutely be looking at doing so

They have this guy already, it's Miller. The issue becomes, who plays on the 2nd pairing. It sure as hell isn't Lindgren-Trouba together. Matt Roy is the guy.

My opinion isn't that Lindgren and Trouba are bad players, they aren't. The teams defense just can't be properly built with the pieces they have.

Jones needs to play. His puck moving ability and how low key ability to break up plays from the bottom pairing is absolutely necessary, especially based on his cap hit.

Schneider, Lindgren and Trouba are all redundant and Miller and Fox needs to be a thing.

So if we look at the defense without any moves:
Miller-Fox
______-______
Jones-_______

Now try to plug in Lindgren, Trouba and Schneider in those holes. You almost can't create a good defensive unit that can move the puck properly. Whether Schneider is on the 2nd pairing or 3rd to start the season is semantics. Whether they really want to keep Trouba and Schneider on the right side is possible but I REALLY struggle to find a good LD who can move the puck as a UFA.

The players who fit the need and are available this off-season are almost all RD's. Roy and Demelo (although he can play both sides, he's RH). You could convince me that someone like OEL moves the puck effectively but he's mainly a 3rd pairing guy at this point. Zadorov, Dillon, Cole are all defensive d-men.

So if we look at what's available and what is needed, a spot at RD needs to open up to improve and the guy to move is Trouba.

Then we look at what role Lindgren could play and if he is playing top-4 without Fox, it's a problem for a playoff team. Especially for what his next contract will likely be.