Roster Building Thread - Part XI (Off-season edition)

[Tob]

Lindgren $5X3 or Big Zad 7X$5

 

[LOFIN]

I like what Drury said. Nothing is off the table with the core guys. Wasn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of Trouba’s play either. Good signs

Anyone expecting these executives to be blunt and straight about moving certain players, or contract extensions is childishly optimistic. Like you said, Drury didn't go out of his way to say that this is definitely the mix they need to win the cup. Everything is on the table. It could mean everyone is back, or that a big piece is moved.

Now, because of the cap, trade clauses and whatnot, I wouldn't advise people to be hopeful that the latter is happening. But it's certainly better to hope instead of Drury just shutting it down.

Lindgren $5X3 or Big Zad 7X$5

Frankly, Lindgren. He wasn't awful in the previous years. I think he can still be a decent 2nd pairing guy.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Rangers need to get away from the soft finesse culture the Rangers have. If the skilled forwards can't play a heavy style which is needed in the playoffs, try to figure out a way to get those types of players on the Rangers by draft or NHL trade or UFA signing. One reason I feel Othmann will be on the Rangers this fall. I wish the top 6 had that bite in their game. The fact that they won't add it to their game shows that they don't care about winning. You change and adapt your game to help the team win. It's called sacrifice

 

[IDvsEGO]

Rangers need to get away from the soft finesse culture the Rangers have. If the skilled forwards can't play a heavy style which is needed in the playoffs, try to figure out a way to get those types of players on the Rangers by draft or NHL trade or UFA signing. One reason I feel Othmann will be on the Rangers this fall. I wish the top 6 had that bite in their game. The fact that they won't add it to their game shows that they don't care about winning. You change and adapt your game to help the team win. It's called sacrifice

So you want a top 6 forward who has. Note in their game. Are you also expecting skill?
Because you can get one, or the other, but the two together aren’t exactly cheap commodities.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Lindgren $5X3 or Big Zad 7X$5

Neither.

 

[zlev]

god help us if we give Lindgren $5M AAV

the defense isn't even that hard to fix. buy out or trade Trouba, trade Lindgren's rights. re-sign Gus if he's cheap enough and find a RD like Matt Roy or something.

Miller-Fox
Jones-Roy
Gus-Schneider

that would be a massive upgrade

 

[Tob]

god help us if we give Lindgren $5M AAV

god:

 

[Graves94]

I think Lavi dropping Trouba to the 3rd pair, late in the season and playoffs, says a lot about what he thinks about his play. Factor in the Rangers record when he was injured (9W-2L) and his salary for the next 2 years...I believe the writing is on the wall.

Any team icing an $8M Dman on the third pair, in a hard cap league, is destined for mediocrity. I'm sure Trouba is a well liked, respected player in the room, but the team has solid leadership already (Trochek, Kreider, Goody, Quick, etc) with new voices (Laf, Schneider) waiting to take charge.

I think if Lavi is not going to split up the twins (which is a huge mistake IMO), then the top priority becomes trading for a 1RW & top pair LD. I believe our bottom six will be solved in house, starting next year, for the foreseeable future. The 1RW can be filled by Perreault in a year or 2 max (probably by end of next season).

So the top target becomes getting a big, tough, mobile Dman to play with Fox. Lindgren to bottom pair ($4M max- even that's too much) or trade him for picks and get a physical, third pairing Dman.

 

[gravey9]

Rangers need to get away from the soft finesse culture the Rangers have. If the skilled forwards can't play a heavy style which is needed in the playoffs, try to figure out a way to get those types of players on the Rangers by draft or NHL trade or UFA signing. One reason I feel Othmann will be on the Rangers this fall. I wish the top 6 had that bite in their game. The fact that they won't add it to their game shows that they don't care about winning. You change and adapt your game to help the team win. It's called sacrifice

The trick is, it has to be done right. We've tried to add brawn to the finesse players in the past and it's not worked great because the brawn we've added has been the less-than-skilled kind. We need some players who are hard to play against, inside the paint, 16-game players that can actually contribute meaningfully.

Otherwise you end up with Mikko Mikkola in your top 4 and Ben Harpur as your 7th D. We need tougher players throughout the lineup that can make plays. You want the right kind of players who can use speed, size, skill to recover pucks on the power play. Guys who not only finish their checks but can pot 15-25 goals a year. Those players don't grow on trees - the Sam Bennetts of the world. But those are the players you need. Can Dakota Joshua be that? Do we want more skilled and a center? likely. It's going to take some real shrewdness and patience from CD to remake this squad in the right ways while maintaining depth. The cap + existing contracts are making this fine-tuning of the roster very challenging because you're looking to the exact same players the rest of the league are looking for. I don't see how CD can fix this in one summer without overpaying and I think our depth in our system and draft picks is somewhat finite. We're not flush with prospects and picks. We're not flush with tons of tradeable assets on the roster.

And if you go out and get a guy like Zadorov for instance (which i'm not advocating for one way or the other) is he mobile, skilled and good enough defensively to be in a top 4 role? Will he become our next Trouba in 2-3 years? Is Brett Pesce good enough to consider? Would he be waaaay too pricey?

Lots of difficult decisions....

 

[NYR Viper]

This. Some are just nuts.
Lindgren as a whole is not a terrible Defenseman by any means.
Guy had a bad season ( his 1st btw) and now he’s persona non grata…..

It’s not about thinking he’s good or “ better then he is”
But when you add up all factors
-age
-next contract term/length
- how his team mates view him
- key cog on PK.
- can play up in line up on all 3 pairs for periods of time to cover injury
- other teams players don’t like playing against him.
-etc etc

For the $$ he’s going to get, your really not going to find anyone of similar age/contract that’s going to be a better fit

I see some pinning for a 32 year old Dillion or Demelo…. There have been seasons where they have also had bad years… just not last season…. Those guys also have warts.

People had their torches/pitchforks out for Goodrow literally all f***in season…..
Now after a strong playoff, not a peep.

It’s one thing to want to upgrade the top pair.
For many reasons, fine..
But cutting Lindy loose isn’t the right decision either.
1 season Is not a guys entire body of work….
And to think Lindgren doesn’t regain his form or better especially in a decreased role shifting to 3rd pair, you’re out to lunch.

Dillon would be a suitable replacement at more than $1m less per season and on a shorter contract. He’s also bigger and more physical in general. Plus this would mean recouping something for Lindgren so the net benefit would be:

More cap space
Bigger replacement
More physical
More assets
Less term and more overall flexibility

 

[NYR Viper]

I think it's within the realm of possibility. If there's one player who's willing to sacrifice himself and take a "cut" for the Rangers it would be Lindgren. I'm sure he'd love to win a cup here with his childhood bestfriend. I don't think he would get some big pay day testing the market, I'm sure he is viewed as largely a product of Fox by GM's around the league. We demoted our captain to the 3rd pair, I'm sure we could demote Lindgren.

Theodore - Fox
Miller - Schneider
Lindgren - xxx

I would much prefer that over

Miller - Fox
Jones - Schneider
Gustafsson - Trouba

I know everyone is obsessed with Jones but I don't honestly get the impression that our front office is as crazy about him as fans are. Especially with what's being said by Drury, Brooks, etc that it seems the mandate is that we need to get bigger & tougher

Why is Lindgren taking less? He for sure shouldn’t and he won’t. He should sign the max deal he can for himself

 

[EdJovanovski]

I think Lavi dropping Trouba to the 3rd pair, late in the season and playoffs, says a lot about what he thinks about his play. Factor in the Rangers record when he was injured (9W-2L) and his salary for the next 2 years...I believe the writing is on the wall.

Any team icing an $8M Dman on the third pair, in a hard cap league, is destined for mediocrity. I'm sure Trouba is a well liked, respected player in the room, but the team has solid leadership already (Trochek, Kreider, Goody, Quick, etc) with new voices (Laf, Schneider) waiting to take charge.

I think if Lavi is not going to split up the twins (which is a huge mistake IMO), then the top priority becomes trading for a 1RW & top pair LD. I believe our bottom six will be solved in house, starting next year, for the foreseeable future. The 1RW can be filled by Perreault in a year or 2 max (probably by end of next season).

So the top target becomes getting a big, tough, mobile Dman to play with Fox. Lindgren to bottom pair ($4M max- even that's too much) or trade him for picks and get a physical, third pairing Dman.

I wouldn't count our chicken before their hatched, remember when we had such great RW depth in the pipeline with Kravtsov & Kakko? So great that we traded Buch for peanuts

Now Perreault does seem to be very skilled, but there are flaws like any prospect (namely his skating & size) he is no more a sure thing than Kakko was.

 

[LOFIN]

Lindgren $5X3 or Big Zad 7X$5

f*** me, you did a dirty on me didn't you? I thought it was 5x3mil for Lindgren?

Should've realized he already made that and obviously is getting bigger deal...

I guess I would still take Lindgren. At least it's not long term.

 

[NYR Viper]

If I’m Lindgren, I’m asking for 4 years. If that means it’s $4m in lieu of $4.3m I take it. I’d want term based on my playing style

 

[JCProdigy]

Theres room to have different lines with different styles within a team or a system. It's actually preferable rather than having a team that just plays one way.

With Kakko though, even on a cycle heavy team or line it's not going to really result in goals unless he (or someone else on his line) takes the puck to the paint. Hemming a team in their own end is cool but eventually it has to result in something.

Thing is last year, it kinda did, at least at a middle six level. His ioGF was 52. Better than both Mika and Kreider totals (48, 51) last year....and their totals this year. Now for Kakko, this year was just a lost year, and understandably, throws everything up in the air on WTF he is.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't care what the odds are. The Rangers are in love with another AHL defenseman because he's tough and can exist with their star 1D, except not really.

We have every right to burn this place down over it.

 

[Vitto79]

Let’s say SJ takes Trouba
In 2 yrs they get a draft pick for him cause he’s going to have value as a rugged D rental

Question is what do NYR do with the money

 

[Machinehead]

The annoying thing is that none of the writers are going to ask him any questions the fans care about.

They kinda do tho.

You have to remember that HF is in the 1% of the 1% at understanding the game.

The mainstream understanding is that we just won the President's Trophy, Mika is great, and Lindgren and Trouba are warriors.

75-80% of the fanbase just wants to hear how Drury plans to improve around the margins.

 

[Machinehead]

Neither.

Neither but also demonstrably the second one.

 

[JCProdigy]

They kinda do tho.

You have to remember that HF is in the 1% of the 1% at understanding the game.

The mainstream understanding is that we just won the President's Trophy, Mika is great, and Lindgren and Trouba are warriors.

75-80% of the fanbase just wants to hear how Drury plans to improve around the margins.

...and here I am thinking HFNYR is just Dunning-Kruger in it's Super Saiyan form.

 

[JimmyG89]

This is Lindgrens last big deal. He's someone that will not be able to go to free agency looking okay at 28/29, unless there is somehow a dramatic turn in play.

We all knew his style wasn't going to allow him to last. It's better he went toast this season and not next.

Some may not think it, but Lindgren is part of this core. He hasn't been an ancillary player on the roster since his arrival. Is it possible Drury looks at that as the shakeup?

This also sounds as though they are committed to Kakko. I may not make that move, but he's 23 and was hurt. He's another guy that's been injury prone. 1 full season of games in 5 years.

This might be a 1 year deal where his agent pushes for 2. Remember, Kakko is arbitration eligible and is 2 years from UFA at 25. If he's pieces it together over the next two years, he'll make a nice deal for himself.

I wish someone asked him about Schneider and his season. Might have gotten some context clues on Trouba instead of asking directly about him. I thought he had a breakthrough this year. Saw a little more with the puck and better in his zone. I wonder how they approach him. I'd try for a 5-6 year deal.

 

[LOFIN]

The annoying thing is that none of the writers are going to ask him any questions the fans care about.

Like what? The GMs aren't still upfront about it. Toronto media asked straight up about trading Marner. Treliving wouldn't give them a straight answer. Even if Larry or whoever would've asked about trading Trouba, you would've gotten the same answer from Drury.

Unless you are talking about questions that @EdJovanovski would care about, like what is Matt Rempe's favourite pizza topping.

 

[jay from jersey]

Dillon would be a suitable replacement at more than $1m less per season and on a shorter contract. He’s also bigger and more physical in general. Plus this would mean recouping something for Lindgren so the net benefit would be:

More cap space
Bigger replacement
More physical
More assets
Less term and more overall flexibility

No way I’m giving Dillon a multi year deal at 33..
I don’t think he’s more physical then Lindy either. He doesn’t exactly play a soft game.
At 26, on a 3/4 even 5 year deal, Lindgren is a trade-able asset for the deals entirety if need be.

How much more cap space are they getting??? Is it enough to add a legit player??? Or the difference of 800k-1 mill?

Theres absolutely no way Lindgren is at the end of the line here in terms of his career at his age….
Yes he has had hard miles/injuries etc…..

Frankly, I’m shocked how many people would rather trade him and sign a relatively unknown ( supposedly better player) for the pretty much the same cap hit for a shorter 1-2 years in term.

Lindgren absolutely plays with his heart on his sleeve and is a popular well liked player by teammates and front office.

some of the trades have the rangers performing an overhaul on a substantial part of the roster to a team that was 2 wins away from competing for the cup.
Panarin is def finishing his deal here. Kreids too.
Over the next 2 seasons we’ll def see some turn around but they aren’t going to take a jacket to this squad over the summer….
The rangers likely deal with the devil they know rather then an older outside UFA that’s going to cost…
If anything goes down beyond trading Kakko and maybe Trouba I’ll be shocked.

You should already see 2-3 kids fill in spots internally…..
The decision on where to deploy chytil if the can’t move him is also big. It determines if the rangers look for a veteran Center or Wing thru UFA or trade market.

Maybe the thinking is if you have both chytil and Kakko, and you have your mind set on keeping him at wing, then Kakko become a redundant piece.
Age/salary/size/skill ( edge to chytil)
In this scenario, Kakko is good as gone for draft capital…..

Trading Lindgren or Chytil this season after ones been injured forever and the other coming off his worst overall season isn’t maximizing the return…..
If that’s the choice, chytil is already signed and has performed better on the ice offensively. Both are still youngish with room to hit another gear.

I just don’t see the logic for the grass is greener mentality on a large part of the roster……

The season after this one is when they make their move…..
Panarin/troubas cap hits gone.
Perrault should debut with the big club, should have a solid cast of guys still on ELCs/2nd deals, and there are some legit high octane game changers in UfA……
That’s the date they should have circled on the calendar

 

[Machinehead]

Thing is last year, it kinda did, at least at a middle six level. His ioGF was 52. Better than both Mika and Kreider totals (48, 51) last year....and their totals this year. Now for Kakko, this year was just a lost year, and understandably, throws everything up in the air on WTF he is.

Kakko is good at literally possessing the puck but I find his possession to be pretty feckless.

If he were just a passenger, that's still an effective player right there with linemates who can score.

Carl Hagelin couldn't score and I would go so far as to say his teams don't win a single round without him.

The trouble is, Kakko tanks his linemates pretty consistently.

People say the kid line was ok but Lafreniere didn't go anywhere near Kakko this year and suddenly he's fixed. I think we have to wonder what effect playing mostly with Kakko had.

 

[Machinehead]

...and here I am thinking HFNYR is just Dunning-Kruger in it's Super Saiyan form.

It can be at times, but talk to Joe Schmoe at the Garden and it's like you went into a different sport.