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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VIII: Autumn in New York

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I wanna see what we all come up with on Nash.

The situation is changed a bit, but, SJ still
has Thornton
is making a last push with its core this year
is a place Nash would waive to/be comfortable at/fit like a glove
has an ample amount of cap last time I looked a full 8.7m this year according to CapFriendly
projects to get wind up with a latter third pick in 2018 (betw. 20-31)


I had previously pushed for, and was largely though not entirely copacetic to all, a core of former 2nd round RD prospect Bergman + a 1st for Nash, w/adds to balance cap.

Now not having last year's production from Nash's term last year, we reduce the price.

Nash at or close to full pop
for
SJ 1ST

win win
do it
 
nyr2k2 said:
They just signed Smith, they're not going to trade him. You don't trade guys you just signed to multi-year deals. He also has a modified NTC which limits where we can deal him. I can see dealing him down the road but not this season.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Why don't we just trade Shattenkirk while we're at it? He has great value and is already close to turning 30
 
bernmeister said:
Now not having last year's production from Nash's term last year, we reduce the price.

Nash at or close to full pop
for
SJ 1ST

win win
do it
Click to expand...

Reminder: The NHL has a salary cap. San Jose currently has 8.7m in cap space with 11F and 6D. It leaves them with 900k and no spares.

And then there's the aspect that it weakens us. Nash isn't going to be traded. He makes our team better by being on it. Giving up Nash for a late 1st rounder isn't really a good move.
 
nyr2k2 said:
They just signed Smith, they're not going to trade him. You don't trade guys you just signed to multi-year deals. He also has a modified NTC which limits where we can deal him. I can see dealing him down the road but not this season.
Click to expand...

He does have limited NTC but regardless of whether or not it is on a given list, I don't see him saying no to Dallas, a point I emphasized.

If I am wrong on that particular point, why?
What is the prob w/him and the Stars?

As for we just signed him, obviously true.
But it is an artificial barrier
He KNOWS we didn't have a lock on Shatty
He knew these other guys are in the pipeline, but unclear how fast they arrive.

Currently he is behind
McD - who may/may not go this year, unlikely unless there is HUGE overpayment
Skjei - goes nowhere
Shatty - ditto

At best he is 2RD here.
I could see him having higher profile/stature in Dallas.
 
bernmeister said:
He does have limited NTC but regardless of whether or not it is on a given list, I don't see him saying no to Dallas, a point I emphasized.

If I am wrong on that particular point, why?
What is the prob w/him and the Stars?

As for we just signed him, obviously true.
But it is an artificial barrier
He KNOWS we didn't have a lock on Shatty
He knew these other guys are in the pipeline, but unclear how fast they arrive.

Currently he is behind
McD - who may/may not go this year, unlikely unless there is HUGE overpayment
Skjei - goes nowhere
Shatty - ditto

At best he is 2RD here.
I could see him having higher profile/stature in Dallas.
Click to expand...

A player doesn't negotiate for a NTC just to waive it in a few months. Usually those clauses are negotiated to give them more stability outside of hockey. The family moves from MI to NY, kids go to a new school. Having a NTC guarantees the player doesn't have to upset his family weeks later by moving across the country again. Dallas isn't in a better position to win the Cup either.

Presenting a made up reason to support your previous statement doesn't make it a fact, by the way
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Reminder: The NHL has a salary cap. San Jose currently has 8.7m in cap space with 11F and 6D. It leaves them with 900k and no spares.

And then there's the aspect that it weakens us. Nash isn't going to be traded. He makes our team better by being on it. Giving up Nash for a late 1st rounder isn't really a good move.
Click to expand...

I agree with you here. Unless we're getting some sort of offensive star to take Nash's cap space slot by adding something to him in a deal, he still brings plenty to the 200ft-game table. Forgetting cap hits, moving him down the lineup, if he isn't bringing proper offense, is one thing but removing him from the roster for just a pick would just make the team worse this season. If they aren't looking like a playoff team by TDL (which I seriously doubt) then I could see moving him for a pick/prospect combo.
 
bernmeister said:
He does have limited NTC but regardless of whether or not it is on a given list, I don't see him saying no to Dallas, a point I emphasized.

If I am wrong on that particular point, why?
What is the prob w/him and the Stars?

As for we just signed him, obviously true.
But it is an artificial barrier
He KNOWS we didn't have a lock on Shatty
He knew these other guys are in the pipeline, but unclear how fast they arrive.

Currently he is behind
McD - who may/may not go this year, unlikely unless there is HUGE overpayment
Skjei - goes nowhere
Shatty - ditto

At best he is 2RD here.
I could see him having higher profile/stature in Dallas.
Click to expand...

He'd probably be behind Klingberg and Methot in Dallas, so he's still a 2nd pairing guy.

As for whether he'd accept a trade there...who knows, he might, but he might also not like Texas or something.

Conceptually it's possible, realistically it's improbable. Maybe in a year or two depending on what they see from guys like DeAngelo and Pionk
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Reminder: The NHL has a salary cap. San Jose currently has 8.7m in cap space with 11F and 6D. It leaves them with 900k and no spares.

And then there's the aspect that it weakens us. Nash isn't going to be traded. He makes our team better by being on it. Giving up Nash for a late 1st rounder isn't really a good move.
Click to expand...

Hence why I said "Nash at or close to full pop"
this means ether we eat a bit, or preferably we accept a cap dump or 2, smaller ones, so they take on 7.8 and we get expiring 2 guys around 2.2-2.8m.

No reason to think the numbers do not work.

You obviously are in the camp that just doesn't want to move Nash and build, you insist on being win now. Fine that is your right.

But I believe Savant RB and others agree with me in principle as to get younger add picks move salary.
Our chances are substantially the same, w/w-out Nash, esp. since we have emergence of Andersson, and Chytil.

Moving Nash now provides receiving club with more term and production of his services, so the price is a bit higher, the max we can get is now.

Moving Nash IS a smart move for a 1st.

Again, that is my nomination off the top of my head.
I am open to alternate trade scenarios for Nash, on his own or in package.
But we should move him, esp since we don't want to risk he gets injured and then we are stuck.

I would consider Nash + to Les Habs for Galy, but they want top $ for him despite some level of issues, and I don't think we pony up what they want. (Most I'd do is Nash + Holden + 2 2nds, but they want more/alternate return.)
Also I don't see Nash waives to go Montreal.

We have been many pages about Nash, and don't see specific scenarios other than a 1st and we have left that open as to what clubs may be competing, have some cap, and would go there.

Again, SJ is an IMMEDIATE fit. Why wait?
 
I'm surprised they never got a look at Leedahl in a preseason game with his size and grit. I never expected him to make the big club, but probably would have taken a look at him over Farnham or other tryout guys like Schneider, Kosmachuk, etc. for at least one game to see how he looked against game competition vs practice. His offensive numbers last season were due to being over-age in Jr but everything I've read and seen about him was prototypical hustle 4th line type.

But, I guess that's what the AHL is for.
 
Levitate said:
He'd probably be behind Klingberg and Methot in Dallas, so he's still a 2nd pairing guy.

As for whether he'd accept a trade there...who knows, he might, but he might also not like Texas or something.

Conceptually it's possible, realistically it's improbable. Maybe in a year or two depending on what they see from guys like DeAngelo and Pionk
Click to expand...


Until we know he'd reject --- and has right to reject under this current deal cause my impression is he submits limited number of teams, his NTC is not absolute veto proof --- we should consider this with an open minded IF Dallas will fork over young talent.

I would not wait for DA and Pionk, who are showing enough now.
Don't be afraid to have a little bit of growing pains at the big show in order to land assets we need to catch up from all the stupid mismanagement of going for it previously.

Methot I agree is stronger defensively.
Klingy I agree is better.
And Honka is coming on, not strong, but getting there.

But Smith can play either side, don't believe they say no so fast.
Their biggest question is how to replace youth surrendered now over next 2-3 yrs, not fit of Smith + Zuc as adds.
 
bernmeister said:
Hence why I said "Nash at or close to full pop"
this means ether we eat a bit, or preferably we accept a cap dump or 2, smaller ones, so they take on 7.8 and we get expiring 2 guys around 2.2-2.8m.

No reason to think the numbers do not work.

You obviously are in the camp that just doesn't want to move Nash and build, you insist on being win now. Fine that is your right.

But I believe Savant RB and others agree with me in principle as to get younger add picks move salary.
Our chances are substantially the same, w/w-out Nash, esp. since we have emergence of Andersson, and Chytil.

Moving Nash now provides receiving club with more term and production of his services, so the price is a bit higher, the max we can get is now.

Moving Nash IS a smart move for a 1st.

Again, that is my nomination off the top of my head.
I am open to alternate trade scenarios for Nash, on his own or in package.
But we should move him, esp since we don't want to risk he gets injured and then we are stuck.

I would consider Nash + to Les Habs for Galy, but they want top $ for him despite some level of issues, and I don't think we pony up what they want. (Most I'd do is Nash + Holden + 2 2nds, but they want more/alternate return.)
Also I don't see Nash waives to go Montreal.

We have been many pages about Nash, and don't see specific scenarios other than a 1st and we have left that open as to what clubs may be competing, have some cap, and would go there.

Again, SJ is an IMMEDIATE fit. Why wait?
Click to expand...

Using the "emergence" (And that term should be used carefully) of Andersson and Chytil as a reason to trade Nash is BS.

Nash is a winger who plays all situations. Chytil and Andersson are wingers who only play ES as of now. Op top of that, it's been just 4 pre-season games. Remember when Nejezchleb had a good pre-season? Well, he isn't really a contributor either, is he? Not saying Andersson and Chytil won't but to base it on a few pre-season games is ridiculous.

And Nash plays a different position, as I have mentioned. That's the same as saying we can trade Zuccarello because we signed Shattenkirk
 
Hyack57 said:
Is that it for bereglazov? Is he going to go back to Russia?
Click to expand...

I know he is not yet all that and a bag of chips, but you hate to lose a worthwhile asset for nothing.

I hope they have an understanding with him that look, we know Holden is being moved asap as soon as there is a half decent return, which will emerge, and Staal will sit or not play meaningful mins at 3LD.

your turn is around the corner
this year
take 1st pair mins while we make that happen, we WILL call you up sooner than later.

That is my hope.
But,... the clock must surely be ticking.
 
ManUtdTobbe said:
bernmeister in mid season form i see, every single proposal is completely bonkers and most of them make NYR worse.
Click to expand...

Problem is that you make a move for all these younger talented players...then wait for them to develop...then by the time they're "developed" you're moving them for younger, talented players :laugh:
 
bernmeister said:
Where have I heard a lot of this before....? :laugh::D:):naughty::handclap:;):yo:
Click to expand...

Yeah we get it, you two with the same rhetoric while we continue to contend with our "old" team year after year.

Anytime one person agrees with you, it's satisfaction that you are 100% correct despite the fact that 95% of the board thinks your ideas about this team are bonkers and unrealistic.
 
Unless Bereglazov has been given some indication that his AHL stint will be short, if I were him I'd absolutely go back to the KHL.
 
Hathaway from Calgary is a guy I wonder if we could pick up on the cheap. He's loved by the fans as a forecheck menace but with the depth in Calgary and young guys contending, probably doesn't have a spot. He'd be much better than our internal 4th line options.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
Going forward, I'm more comfortable with our future than I was at the beginning of the summer. What Chytil and these defensemen have shown has made me think we might be good when the current generation is done.

Between Kreider, Zibanejad, Chytil, Buchnevich, Miller, Andersson. I think we got six solid or better top 6 players. It would really help us out though if Buchnevich or Chytil were offensive difference makers because we kind of need one of those. And with Hayes and Vesey, we should have the makings of a very solid third line. Just need to find someone to play with them. Between Gettinger, Gropp, Virta, Lakatos, Lettieri surely one of these guys should be good enough? I like Fontaine's potential for 4C and we also got Fast as a RW, so we might be about two bottom 6 pieces short of a good roster. You can also fill those spots with free agents, so its not too much of a worry.

Defensively, I like what I've seen. We gotta keep McDonagh though. If we let him go, we are doomed defensively. McDonagh and Skjei as a 1 and 2 is very solid, as long as Skjei makes expected defensive progressions. Hopefully DeAngelo can progress into like a Shattenkirk style of OFD, which would be big for us. Round it out with Graves, Pionk, and then Bereglazov, if he sticks around, and we have the makings of a really solid defense. Thats not even to mention Crawley, Day, Zborovskiy, Sjalin, Reunanen, a group that probably has at least 2 NHL defensemen. So I think we are very solid on the back end going forward. And then in goal, we got Shestyorkin who's as much of a sure thing goalie prospect as there is. And if not, we still got quality prospects like Huska and Wall. I even like Georgiyev, I think he could be an NHL back up.

Going forward, my only questions are whether or not we have enough difference makers, and maybe some depth issues among the forwards. I'm not sure we have the best depth in prospects at forward. We might need to bulk up even further there the next few drafts, as if something goes wrong among the forwards, whether one of the guys we are counting on busts or someone gets traded, we might be in need of another forward.
Click to expand...


Great post PB, I agree 100% with what you said. Why no mention of Zucarello? What is your plan for him? I pray that nash is dealt at the deadline we add a First and with one of the firsts we draft a skilled right handed shooting forward.
 
Staal should be sat down and told he will be waived. Send him to the AHL, save the $1.05m on the cap. They didn't need the cap space this offseason.
 
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