Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VIII: Autumn in New York

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Going forward, I'm more comfortable with our future than I was at the beginning of the summer. What Chytil and these defensemen have shown has made me think we might be good when the current generation is done.

Between Kreider, Zibanejad, Chytil, Buchnevich, Miller, Andersson. I think we got six solid or better top 6 players. It would really help us out though if Buchnevich or Chytil were offensive difference makers because we kind of need one of those. And with Hayes and Vesey, we should have the makings of a very solid third line. Just need to find someone to play with them. Between Gettinger, Gropp, Virta, Lakatos, Lettieri surely one of these guys should be good enough? I like Fontaine's potential for 4C and we also got Fast as a RW, so we might be about two bottom 6 pieces short of a good roster. You can also fill those spots with free agents, so its not too much of a worry.

Defensively, I like what I've seen. We gotta keep McDonagh though. If we let him go, we are doomed defensively. McDonagh and Skjei as a 1 and 2 is very solid, as long as Skjei makes expected defensive progressions. Hopefully DeAngelo can progress into like a Shattenkirk style of OFD, which would be big for us. Round it out with Graves, Pionk, and then Bereglazov, if he sticks around, and we have the makings of a really solid defense. Thats not even to mention Crawley, Day, Zborovskiy, Sjalin, Reunanen, a group that probably has at least 2 NHL defensemen. So I think we are very solid on the back end going forward. And then in goal, we got Shestyorkin who's as much of a sure thing goalie prospect as there is. And if not, we still got quality prospects like Huska and Wall. I even like Georgiyev, I think he could be an NHL back up.

Going forward, my only questions are whether or not we have enough difference makers, and maybe some depth issues among the forwards. I'm not sure we have the best depth in prospects at forward. We might need to bulk up even further there the next few drafts, as if something goes wrong among the forwards, whether one of the guys we are counting on busts or someone gets traded, we might be in need of another forward.

 

[Revel]

Good post, PB. Nice to see you optimistic for a change. It looks good on you.

 

[darko]

Going forward, I'm more comfortable with our future than I was at the beginning of the summer. What Chytil and these defensemen have shown has made me think we might be good when the current generation is done.

Between Kreider, Zibanejad, Chytil, Buchnevich, Miller, Andersson. I think we got six solid or better top 6 players. It would really help us out though if Buchnevich or Chytil were offensive difference makers because we kind of need one of those. And with Hayes and Vesey, we should have the makings of a very solid third line. Just need to find someone to play with them. Between Gettinger, Gropp, Virta, Lakatos, Lettieri surely one of these guys should be good enough? I like Fontaine's potential for 4C and we also got Fast as a RW, so we might be about two bottom 6 pieces short of a good roster. You can also fill those spots with free agents, so its not too much of a worry.

Defensively, I like what I've seen. We gotta keep McDonagh though. If we let him go, we are doomed defensively. McDonagh and Skjei as a 1 and 2 is very solid, as long as Skjei makes expected defensive progressions. Hopefully DeAngelo can progress into like a Shattenkirk style of OFD, which would be big for us. Round it out with Graves, Pionk, and then Bereglazov, if he sticks around, and we have the makings of a really solid defense. Thats not even to mention Crawley, Day, Zborovskiy, Sjalin, Reunanen, a group that probably has at least 2 NHL defensemen. So I think we are very solid on the back end going forward. And then in goal, we got Shestyorkin who's as much of a sure thing goalie prospect as there is. And if not, we still got quality prospects like Huska and Wall. I even like Georgiyev, I think he could be an NHL back up.

Going forward, my only questions are whether or not we have enough difference makers, and maybe some depth issues among the forwards. I'm not sure we have the best depth in prospects at forward. We might need to bulk up even further there the next few drafts, as if something goes wrong among the forwards, whether one of the guys we are counting on busts or someone gets traded, we might be in need of another forward.

Good post.

 

[Avery16]

Why did we let Iverson, Mantha, and Nejezchleb go?

 

[mike14]

Why did we let Iverson, Mantha, and Nejezchleb go?

By all accounts Nejezchleb was below average at the ECHL level, and is now 23.
Going to assume that the club couldn't see the point in giving a roster spot to either of the other two as they didn't think the'd be worth it.

I know Nejezch went to the Czech league, anyone know if the other two are playing in the US or overseas?

 

[E-Train]

I know Nejezch went to the Czech league, anyone know if the other two are playing in the US or overseas?

Mantha is with the Oilers, Iverson with the Kings.

 

[Avery16]

Iverson just put up 70 in 55 with Portland, is 6'2" 220 at 21.

Mantha just had 58 in 65 in the OHL, is 6'5" 225 at 21.

 

[mike14]

A quick check search of the Oilers board sees a few thinking that Mantha could maybe crack it as a depth D-man, with others thinking he's nowhere near it. Looks like his skating/mobility is still an issue.

There's no real mention of Iverson on the kings board since so no idea what's going on with him.

I don't think we've really lost anything but letting either guy go. Mantha might make the NHL on a part time basis, but we seem to have more than enough depth/journey D-men right now, so probably better off using that roster spot elsewhere

 

[Revel]

Iverson is on an AHL contract. Probably training with his AHL team already is my guess.

 

[Machinehead]

Good post, PB. Nice to see you optimistic for a change. It looks good on you.

I agree

 

[egelband]

Well, he'll be given the chance to do that in the AHL. It's up to him as to whether or not he wants to put in the work though.

Yep. if he doesn't take the offer for Hartford, it's clear he's not the right guy. If he's willing to put in that work, though, he has a shot. I hope he doesn't give up so soon.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Why did we let Iverson, Mantha, and Nejezchleb go?

Because they showed nothing to suggest they deserved an NHL contract.

The fact that they produced decent numbers in their overage year after we lost their rights doesn't mean it was a bad decision to not sign them.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Going forward, I'm more comfortable with our future than I was at the beginning of the summer. What Chytil and these defensemen have shown has made me think we might be good when the current generation is done.

Between Kreider, Zibanejad, Chytil, Buchnevich, Miller, Andersson. I think we got six solid or better top 6 players. It would really help us out though if Buchnevich or Chytil were offensive difference makers because we kind of need one of those. And with Hayes and Vesey, we should have the makings of a very solid third line. Just need to find someone to play with them. Between Gettinger, Gropp, Virta, Lakatos, Lettieri surely one of these guys should be good enough? I like Fontaine's potential for 4C and we also got Fast as a RW, so we might be about two bottom 6 pieces short of a good roster. You can also fill those spots with free agents, so its not too much of a worry.

Defensively, I like what I've seen. We gotta keep McDonagh though. If we let him go, we are doomed defensively. McDonagh and Skjei as a 1 and 2 is very solid, as long as Skjei makes expected defensive progressions. Hopefully DeAngelo can progress into like a Shattenkirk style of OFD, which would be big for us. Round it out with Graves, Pionk, and then Bereglazov, if he sticks around, and we have the makings of a really solid defense. Thats not even to mention Crawley, Day, Zborovskiy, Sjalin, Reunanen, a group that probably has at least 2 NHL defensemen. So I think we are very solid on the back end going forward. And then in goal, we got Shestyorkin who's as much of a sure thing goalie prospect as there is. And if not, we still got quality prospects like Huska and Wall. I even like Georgiyev, I think he could be an NHL back up.

Going forward, my only questions are whether or not we have enough difference makers, and maybe some depth issues among the forwards. I'm not sure we have the best depth in prospects at forward. We might need to bulk up even further there the next few drafts, as if something goes wrong among the forwards, whether one of the guys we are counting on busts or someone gets traded, we might be in need of another forward.

This is where the 2018 draft is going to be big. I really would like an extra 1st round pick in this year's draft, and then for the Rangers to grab two highly-skilled forwards. That's the area where the Rangers need to infuse more talent.

 

[RangerBoy]

Gorton has to continue what he started with the Zibanejad trade. Continue to get younger. Trade established Rangers for younger players. Don't sign/extend "older" players to long term contracts. Don't sign players in their early 30's to any big contract with McDonagh being the only exception and that depends on the term. Acquire more first round picks. Acquire another 2018 first round pick. I really don't care if the timeline for "winning" doesn't coincide with Lundqvist's timeline. The Rangers have given enough him money over the years and still owe him a kings ransom. If the Russian goaltender comes over after 18-19 and the Rangers are a better team with Shestyorkin starting at some point in the last 2 years of Lundqvist's contract, it's a business.

People go into anaphylactic shock when you suggest trading certain players but Gorton is not afraid to make a big trade changing the dynamics of the team. It needs to be done.

 

[Ori]

Gorton has to continue what he started with the Zibanejad trade. Continue to get younger. Trade established Rangers for younger players. Don't sign/extend "older" players to long term contracts. Don't sign players in their early 30's to any big contract with McDonagh being the only exception and that depends on the term. Acquire more first round picks. Acquire another 2018 first round pick. I really don't care if the timeline for "winning" doesn't coincide with Lundqvist's timeline. The Rangers have given enough him money over the years and still owe him a kings ransom. If the Russian goaltender comes over after 18-19 and the Rangers are a better team with Shestyorkin starting at some point in the last 2 years of Lundqvist's contract, it's a business.

People go into anaphylactic shock when you suggest trading certain players but Gorton is not afraid to make a big trade changing the dynamics of the team. It needs to be done.

I agree, I felt Henrik had his chance in 2014. We should aim for a winger with that 1st round pick and move Nash for another 1st round pick, and hope we don`t reach playoffs so we can join the lottery for a high draft pick like Flyers last year.

If AV decide to have Holden & Staal in the lineup this year after pressure from media with Dave Maloney comments earlier this night (from MSG Networks), and with declining David Desharnais who might center our 4th line - I know we will struggle to qualify for playoffs also due to size issue as well since he is a center even though he will get less than 10 minutes pr game. I`ve no idea what kind of contract Zucc will ask for next year, but if it`s more than 2 years we should move him for another 1st round + as well depends on his production the next two years.

 

[NYR Viper]

I'm hopeful Gorton can add a couple of lower round picks for Holden.

 

[E-Train]

People go into anaphylactic shock when you suggest trading certain players but Gorton is not afraid to make a big trade changing the dynamics of the team. It needs to be done.

Gorton has continued the Zibanejad trade by dealing "established" Stepan for two young assets. There's not much more to deal at this point. He tried to move Nash in the summer of 2016 but the offers were apparently light. Other than Zucc, I don't see a move in this description. Any Zucc deal would have to be after the season and before the draft. Trading your likely leading scorer before or during this season is not happening barring a total collapse.

 

[GAGLine]

Gorton has continued the Zibanejad trade by dealing "established" Stepan for two young assets. There's not much more to deal at this point. He tried to move Nash in the summer of 2016 but the offers were apparently light. Other than Zucc, I don't see a move in this description. Any Zucc deal would have to be after the season and before the draft. Trading your likely leading scorer before or during this season is not happening barring a total collapse.

We don't know if Gorton was offering to retain on Nash or not. Nash absolutely has value and there are definitely teams that would be interested at the deadline when his cap hit will be far less of an issue, especially if we retain. It remains to be seen how both Nash and the Rangers are playing at that point, but it's a possibility.

Grabner is another possibility. Cheap contract, final year. Can score goals and PK.

Zucc and/or McD could be traded in the offseason, though they both could be re-signed at some point as well. Both would need to re-sign for 4 years or less, I think.

 

[E-Train]

We don't know if Gorton was offering to retain on Nash or not. Nash absolutely has value and there are definitely teams that would be interested at the deadline when his cap hit will be far less of an issue, especially if we retain. It remains to be seen how both Nash and the Rangers are playing at that point, but it's a possibility.

Grabner is another possibility. Cheap contract, final year. Can score goals and PK.

Zucc and/or McD could be traded in the offseason, though they both could be re-signed at some point as well. Both would need to re-sign for 4 years or less, I think.

I don't see the team being bad enough to sell at the deadline. Nash, this season, and Grabner would not be the type of deals RB is talking about anyway. In the case of Zucc or even McD, nothing like that will happen until after this season if at all. This is a playoff team IMO.

 

[eco's bones]

Because they showed nothing to suggest they deserved an NHL contract.

The fact that they produced decent numbers in their overage year after we lost their rights doesn't mean it was a bad decision to not sign them.

I think the Rangers tried to sign Mantha and Mantha turned them down but he wasn't exactly setting the house on fire anyway. He was lucky to find another team and then he had a good year--but to me he's a long shot and I'd much rather take my chances with some of the new D the Rangers have brought in.

Iverson plateaued for three years. Nothing there. The Rangers were right to let him go. Nej was an overage draft and not all that impressive. He got a season on an AHL contract--most of which was in the ECHL and not in Hartford. He did not impress. He's gone.

 

[nyr2k2]

I think the Rangers tried to sign Mantha and Mantha turned them down but he wasn't exactly setting the house on fire anyway. He was lucky to find another team and then he had a good year--but to me he's a long shot and I'd much rather take my chances with some of the new D the Rangers have brought in.

Iverson plateaued for three years. Nothing there. The Rangers were right to let him go. Nej was an overage draft and not all that impressive. He got a season on an AHL contract--most of which was in the ECHL and not in Hartford. He did not impress. He's gone.

There was some question as to whether or not we offered him a contract. This is from the Buffalo news back in 2016:

Mantha is trying to find a new home for himself. The former New York Rangers prospect was let go in June when the team decided to not offer him a contract.

"It's not a step back, but it's another open door that you want to make the best out of," Mantha said.

On Iverson, he never progressed. That he scored 70 points as an over-age player when he was bigger, stronger, older and more experienced than 90% of the guys in his league isn't a noteworthy accomplishment. From a statistical standpoint it's not even a great over-age season. He actually regressed in following the draft until his OA season.

Nejezchleb never had it. He was mediocre or worse at every stop.

 

[NYR713]

I'm not convinced Lias should be playing in the NHL this season except for a few "cup of coffee games" early on. That may change once I see something close to the full lineup playing with him in some complimentary role, and I think he's got a great future, but could probably use another season in Sweden or AHL playing top 6 minutes.

Chytil, on the other hand, seems to have the ability to play in this league at this age, probably at wing to start. But, I'm not sure his body would hold up over 82 games and I'd hate to see him start with injury troubles because he was rushed. Definitely hoping to see him get a few real games to start the season before heading back to Czech Pro League (or maybe heading over to a better league like SHL with Lias).

DD and Nieves are solid options for bottom 6 duties and I really like what I see from Lettieri as a bottom 6 guy that can hustle, forecheck, bring a little grit and provide a little offense(and extra PP QB) as long as he can stay out of the penalty box. At least while Fast is out, I like him better than Pumps in a checking role.

With what I've seen so far, (after LA and Chytil get a couple games) still waiting on Fast, I'd be rolling something like:

Kreider-Zib-Zucc
Nash-Miller-Buch
Vesey-Hayes-Grabner
Boo-DD-Lettieri

McD-Shatty
Skjei-ADA
Graves-Smith

 

[bernmeister]

Gorton has to continue what he started with the Zibanejad trade. Continue to get younger. Trade established Rangers for younger players. Don't sign/extend "older" players to long term contracts. Don't sign players in their early 30's to any big contract with McDonagh being the only exception and that depends on the term. Acquire more first round picks. Acquire another 2018 first round pick. I really don't care if the timeline for "winning" doesn't coincide with Lundqvist's timeline. The Rangers have given enough him money over the years and still owe him a kings ransom. If the Russian goaltender comes over after 18-19 and the Rangers are a better team with Shestyorkin starting at some point in the last 2 years of Lundqvist's contract, it's a business.

People go into anaphylactic shock when you suggest trading certain players but Gorton is not afraid to make a big trade changing the dynamics of the team. It needs to be done.

Where have I heard a lot of this before....?

 

[bernmeister]

Gorton has continued the Zibanejad trade by dealing "established" Stepan for two young assets. There's not much more to deal at this point. He tried to move Nash in the summer of 2016 but the offers were apparently light. Other than Zucc, I don't see a move in this description. Any Zucc deal would have to be after the season and before the draft. Trading your likely leading scorer before or during this season is not happening barring a total collapse.

I disagree.
There is the obvious Nash, and to lesser extent Zuc
Grabner, depends on how he performs this year, what he wants, and what is offered for him. He should not be given long term, but if he scores and plays well, he deserves good $, perhaps even a tad more if he is not given term.

Then there is Smith.
He cost a second and third as a rental. We went there partly as to improved chances/striaghtening out last year's backliner situation. He was a risk as to re-signing here and doing so at a reasonable #. We did not know we'd get Shaty/ADA. Had idea, but not a given on our youth D.
Now we need to see if there is tactical advantage to trade at a profit.

We need to view Skjei as our 1LD, Shattenkirk his counterpart.
Obviously, McD holds that role as long as he is here, but IF a genuine ransom with MASSIVE overpayment is proffered, we need to grab it. Moving McD now, IF such an offer is made now, = highest return.

Assuming Staal is a disaster we cannot trade and he plays half the year [other half heathy scratch], and only dozen or so games at 3LD [the rest at 4LW with defensively responsible linemates like Fast who can skate], and assuming we eventually unload Holden for a profit also, that leaves

{McD}
Skjei - ****
Graves - ADA
Beargloves - Pionk

{Staal}

Day given a cup o coffee taste at 3LD for 5 games ish as incentive, he competes here next year.

Assuming you get zero backliners back from any Nash/Zuc/Holden/Smith etc deal(s), which is a big assumption, that is very thin, but functional.

We should try to build, build, build. Then in short enough order, we have additional quality assets enhancing our young core, and we are ready to kick ass.

I am open to other scenarios discussing Smith with an open mind.
He has a limited NTC, submitting list of 15 teams this year, 10 teams end of the deal.
He has earned the right not to go wherever he wants, but to restrict within reason club choices he wants to veto. I can't see him not willing to go to Dallas.

I reiterate, in lieu of giving up picks, use the ability to eat salary, esp since at some point we are moving Nash in a separate deal, and do
Smith and Zuc both half
for
Heiskanen, Gurianov + Pitlick

they are literally a hair under, and so they may want to give us a small cap dump up to 2m to roughly equalize.

Resist the win now instant gratification impulse; Stars know they need D and possibly G help. Exploit that. Of course, they need a lot of incentive to surrender Heiskanen particularly. But the max cap relief is that. It's not a given but should be enough inducement for them to delay for 1 yr getting younger on backline. Also, if Seguin wants too much $, it is not inconceivable that something around Seguin and Hanifin could happen, esp w/addition of Zuc as top W mitigates somewhat vs loss of Seguin's scoring punch.

If we moved Smith
what would be the best deal?

 

[nyr2k2]

They just signed Smith, they're not going to trade him. You don't trade guys you just signed to multi-year deals. He also has a modified NTC which limits where we can deal him. I can see dealing him down the road but not this season.