Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[GoAwayPanarin]

The one thing the Rangers have had down forever is developing good to elite goalies.

I hope that they can put a team in front of Shesterkin before his current deal runs out that is good enough where he can carry them the rest of the way. Beyond that, I'm with the others who don't want to pay 10+ a year (which is what it will be once that cap goes up) to keep him around.

As someone else said, if he can lead them to back to back cups and he wins the Smythe twice? Pay him what ever the f*** he wants because at that point he would be the best goalie in franchise history and one of the best to ever do it. Outside of that, I'll take my shot at moving forward with Garand or who ever the best goalie available is at the time (or some schmuck who has spent his entirety of his young career being under valued because hes been getting peppered by shots in Arizona.)

 

[Machinehead]

Putting words in my mouth. I never said they needed an elite goalie to "function". Id just love to see how trading a Vezina winning goalie in his prime makes us better. So far all I see is whining that we'll never be good enough.

They do need an elite goaltender to function.

You didn't say it; I've been watching it for 15+ years.

 

[Profet]

You mean the perpetual contenders people? The team is once again a contender.

Contenders for the playoffs...? yes...

Contenders for a championship...? I don't think so.

This team isn't built for the playoffs.

 

[Machinehead]

The one thing the Rangers have had down forever is developing good to elite goalies.

I hope that they can put a team in front of Shesterkin before his current deal runs out that is good enough where he can carry them the rest of the way. Beyond that, I'm with the others who don't want to pay 10+ a year (which is what it will be once that cap goes up) to keep him around.

As someone else said, if he can lead them to back to back cups and he wins the Smythe twice? Pay him what ever the f*** he wants because at that point he would be the best goalie in franchise history and one of the best to ever do it. Outside of that, I'll take my shot at moving forward with Garand or who ever the best goalie available is at the time (or some schmuck who has spent his entirety of his young career being under valued because hes been getting peppered by shots in Arizona.)

Idk about that last one. If he can't put up a .930 getting peppered with shots, he's gonna have a bad time in New York.

 

[McRanger92]

They do need an elite goaltender to function.

You didn't say it; I've been watching it for 15+ years.

They need an elite goalie to function? Or they just had elite goalies for 15 years? It's not like you or I ever saw them without an elite goalie for more than a half season with Talbot (they went on to win the President's Trophy that year, for those who don't remember).

 

[Machinehead]

They need an elite goalie to function? Or they just had elite goalies for 15 years? It's not like you or I ever saw them without an elite goalie for more than a half season with Talbot (they went on to win the President's Trophy that year, for those who don't remember).

That's the last time they were good! It's going on nine years ago now.

You literally just said we'd be in perpetual rebuild without Shesterkin and now you're walking it back because it's not gumdrops and unicorns.

Some people want to see the team succeed and others just want to preach that the team is succeeding so they can take the high ground of "not whining."

 

[bleedblue94]

The issue with elite goaltending is that it can become a crutch. players take it for granted that they have a safety back there that will bail them out. elite goaltending also affects team and player stats and helps some guys make more money than they otherwise should. i wish we had mediocre goaltending in the season and then could flip a switch for the elite in the playoffs ha.

 

[McRanger92]

That's the last time they were good! It's going on nine years ago now.

You literally just said we'd be in perpetual rebuild without Shesterkin and now you're walking it back because it's not gumdrops and unicorns.

Some people want to see the team succeed and others just want to preach that the team is succeeding so they can take the high ground of "not whining."

Walking back what? The team is a contender for a Cup this year by every metric I've seen. Sorry I'm not in support of trading the best goalie in the league to play a guy with 0 NHL minutes because Machinehead doesn't think goalies matter.

 

[Machinehead]

Walking back what? The team is a contender for a Cup this year by every metric I've seen. Sorry I'm not in support of trading the best goalie in the league to play a guy with 0 NHL minutes because Machinehead doesn't think goalies matter.

You said that last year. I, and others, told you exactly how the Devils series would play out and that's how it played out. This team is not good enough to get out of their division. They weren't last year and nothing changed.

Huge credit to sticking to your guns tho. Honestly.

 

[Machinehead]

Also, literally nobody said trade Shesterkin.

People are saying don't give Shesterkin $12m going into 2026.

 

[Jim Ramsay]

Didn't fact check it, but I did read a tweet that the Rangers projected lineup has the most points scored in the league based on last years totals for each player

 

[duhmetreE]

It's also not a hard concept to disprove.

Here are the Cup winning goalies since the lockout:

Adin Hill - arguably a 4th stringer

Darcy Kuemper - not even re-signed by the team, terrible playoff run, bad in 22-23

Andrey Vasilevskiy - fair enough

Jordan Binnington - trash starter playing his way out of the league

Braden Holtby - Already wasn't a starting-caliber goalie by the time they won the Cup (.907 in the regular season that year) and hasn't been one since

Matt Murray - was never a starting goaltender in the NHL

Corey Crawford - low-key elite; this one checks out

Jonathan Quick - take out 2011-12 and he has a negative career GSAA

Tim Thomas - Valid: probably the preeminent Cup-winning goalie run of the last 30 years

Antti Niemi - LMFAO

Marc-Andre Fleury - literally one of the worst GSAA in the history of the playoffs, but hey probably a Hall of Famer!

Chris Osgood - career .905; dime a dozen goalie

J.S. Giguere - he was good

Cam Ward - he wasn't

A LOT more mediocre than good on this list, and some of it is downright bad. No Lundqvist, no Luongo, no Rask, no Rinne, no Bobrovsky, no Price.

In fact, only four names are on both this list and a list of Vezina winners. One is MAF who cracks like an egg in the post-season and one is Holtby who won the Vezina prior to his decline.

So, I don't know, do they have the best chance? Doesn't seem like it.

I get that. It takes elite talent to win. for every team that has won a cup with a 'non-elite' goalie, there's a team like Pittsburgh from 2 seasons ago. I'd expect to have sieve losing games for us in the playoffs than a no-name carrying us to a cup.

All teams that win, have all facets of the game performing. The top paid guys MUST perform at or above their 'paid' levels.

I'm not keen on giving Igor $11M. If that's the debate, I'd get the apprehension... He's arguably our best player. It'd be nice to have a better team in front of him and not rely on him to absolute hard carry the team to wins that we had no right winning.

My main point was, it's the overpaid skaters that do not pull their own weight. That's always been the issue. We've had this issue for what feels like a generation now....

We wont pay Igor to get another Playoff Panarin, Rick Nash or NYR Gaborik....

TLDR - lets actually get elite performing talent at forward ( WORTH THEIR CAP HIT ) before we get rid of our best player.

 

[Machinehead]

Didn't fact check it, but I did read a tweet that the Rangers projected lineup has the most points scored in the league based on last years totals for each player

Actually, that doesn't sound too crazy to me but I'm shocked it's not Edmonton if that's the case.

 

[Synergy27]

Putting words in my mouth. I never said they needed an elite goalie to "function". Id just love to see how trading a Vezina winning goalie in his prime makes us better. So far all I see is whining that we'll never be good enough.

It doesn’t make us better in a vacuum, and it doesn’t make us better while he is on this current contract.

This is not hard. He’s of great value and a huge net positive to the team right now.

That will likely no longer be the case when his salary doubles on his next contract.

That’s it.

 

[Machinehead]

I get that. It takes elite talent to win. for every team that has won a cup with a 'non-elite' goalie, there's a team like Pittsburgh from 2 seasons ago. I'd expect to have sieve losing games for us in the playoffs than a no-name carrying us to a cup.

All teams that win, have all facets of the game performing. The top paid guys MUST perform at or above their 'paid' levels.

I'm not keen on giving Igor $11M. If that's the debate, I'd get the apprehension... He's arguably our best player. It'd be nice to have a better team in front of him and not rely on him to absolute hard carry the team to wins that we had no right winning.

My main point was, it's the overpaid skaters that do not pull their own weight. That's always been the issue. We've had this issue for what feels like a generation now....

We wont pay Igor to get another Playoff Panarin, Rick Nash or NYR Gaborik....

TLDR - lets actually get elite performing talent at forward ( WORTH THEIR CAP HIT ) before we get rid of our best player.

To get elite talent at forward, you either need to buy it which Shesterkin's contract would prevent or draft it which his performance would likely prevent.

The best path forward for this team is rebuilding and actually sticking to it this time.

 

[duhmetreE]

Because the dead weight skaters have no value and it’s harder than ever to move bad contracts, especially ones with NMC/NTC

Panarin and Trouba have value IMO and are moveable. Zibs we're stuck with.

There's always some sucker GM. The biggest move is to get rid of Trouba next offseason. He will fall off FAST imo. He already can't move.... that's not going to get better.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Vince nailed it here. For some reason, 99% of everyones ire has been placed on Laf this camp but the spotlight should really be on Panarin.

If he has a slow start, that anger is going to shift and shift fast. May not even take a slow start, it may happen after the first turnover that leads to a goal against.

 

[Machinehead]

Vince nailed it here. For some reason, 99% of everyones ire has been placed on Laf this camp but the spotlight should really be on Panarin.

If he has a slow start, that anger is going to shift and shift fast. May not even take a slow start, it may happen after the first turnover that leads to a goal against.

It's because Laf sucks and Panarin like, still doesn't suck.

Although, if Panarin keeps playing like he did in preseason (absolute woof) then yes, it will shift to him.

 

[duhmetreE]

To get elite talent at forward, you either need to buy it which Shesterkin's contract would prevent or draft it which his performance would likely prevent.

The best path forward for this team is rebuilding and actually sticking to it this time.

we bought Panarin. We bought Gaborik. We traded for Nash. Elite talent no?

Something is/has been rotten here... as we all allude to.

Why will the 'next one' be any different?

Vince nailed it here. For some reason, 99% of everyones ire has been placed on Laf this camp but the spotlight should really be on Panarin.

If he has a slow start, that anger is going to shift and shift fast. May not even take a slow start, it may happen after the first turnover that leads to a goal against.

We are not winning in the Playoffs because of the $2.3M 3rd line LW.

Don't look at the $30M of Panarin, Trouba and Zibs from last playoffs. Zibs at least has a 'get out of jail' card from our ECF run.... but as it's been obvious... I am not a fan of how his game devolved.

 

[Synergy27]

I get that. It takes elite talent to win. for every team that has won a cup with a 'non-elite' goalie, there's a team like Pittsburgh from 2 seasons ago. I'd expect to have sieve losing games for us in the playoffs than a no-name carrying us to a cup.

All teams that win, have all facets of the game performing. The top paid guys MUST perform at or above their 'paid' levels.

I'm not keen on giving Igor $11M. If that's the debate, I'd get the apprehension... He's arguably our best player. It'd be nice to have a better team in front of him and not rely on him to absolute hard carry the team to wins that we had no right winning.

My main point was, it's the overpaid skaters that do not pull their own weight. That's always been the issue. We've had this issue for what feels like a generation now....

We wont pay Igor to get another Playoff Panarin, Rick Nash or NYR Gaborik....

TLDR - lets actually get elite performing talent at forward ( WORTH THEIR CAP HIT ) before we get rid of our best player.

You need your best and highest paid players earning their paycheck, absolutely. But, the idea is that if your best and highest paid player is a goalie, winning is still going to be hard even if he is earning every cent of the paycheck.

Goalies block pucks. They do one thing. It’s what the position is. This is an argument about a position, not about how great Igor is, or Hank was. That’s not debatable.

You need your high paid guys to do more than one thing at an elite level.

 

[Machinehead]

we bought Panarin. We bought Gaborik. We traded for Nash. Elite talent no?

Something is/has been rotten here... as we all allude to.

Why will the 'next one' be any different?

Because if we actually rebuilt, that would be something different. I'm not saying it's gonna work, there's never guarantees, but everyone always says they want something different.

We never rebuilt. We have one of the oldest teams in the league. We basically just hitched our wagon to the non-playoff teams of 18-19 and 19-20 only we added Lafreniere, Kakko, and Fox. Out of those, obviously only Fox made a game-changing impact.

We're still competing with a core from 3-4 years ago that's now 3-4 years older. There was no rebuild.

 

[TominNC]

Contenders for the playoffs...? yes...

Contenders for a championship...? I don't think so.

This team isn't built for the playoffs.

You can’t win unless you’re in. Keep taking shots with good teams

 

[duhmetreE]

You need your best and highest paid players earning their paycheck, absolutely. But, the idea is that if your best and highest paid player is a goalie, winning is still going to be hard even if he is earning every cent of the paycheck.

Goalies block pucks. They do one thing. It’s what the position is. This is an argument about a position, not about how great Igor is, or Hank was. That’s not debatable.

You need your high paid guys to do more than one thing at an elite level.

Why is it one or the other? Why can't it be a balance of both?

Why can't we have a Marchasseault?

it's still 2 seasons away. We have ALL the talent to win imo. Do we have the will to win? who knows.

 

[Synergy27]

Vince nailed it here. For some reason, 99% of everyones ire has been placed on Laf this camp but the spotlight should really be on Panarin.

If he has a slow start, that anger is going to shift and shift fast. May not even take a slow start, it may happen after the first turnover that leads to a goal against.

:why not both meme:::

Why is it one or the other? Why can't it be a balance of both?

Why can't we have a Marchasseault?

it's still 2 seasons away. We have ALL the talent to win imo. Do we have the will to win? who knows.

You need that too.

 

[duhmetreE]

Because if we actually rebuilt, that would be something different. I'm not saying it's gonna work, there's never guarantees, but everyone always says they want something different.

We never rebuilt. We have one of the oldest teams in the league. We basically just hitched our wagon to the non-playoff teams of 18-19 and 19-20 only we added Lafreniere, Kakko, and Fox. Out of those, obviously only Fox made a game-changing impact.

We're still competing with a core from 3-4 years ago that's now 3-4 years older. There was no rebuild.

If we actually got a #1 or #2 pick, it'd be different?

we were gifted a future HOF defenseman on top of it.

What more can this team ask for? We get all the UFAs. We have a top player force his way here for peanuts. We win a #1 an #2 pick. We have the best goalie in the league...

What better scenario is going to come our way? We just have to suck at better times?

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We need better management. Same guy, same results.