Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[Synergy27]

This is true.

And then Adin Hill won the Cup.

I really don’t know why people have such a hard time understanding this.

Yes, Igor had an insane GSAA last year. He faced a f*** ton more high danger shots because the rest of the team was bad.

The goal is to build a team that generates more high danger chances than it gives up. Preferably by a large margin. It’s much harder to do this if you have a large percentage of your cap tied up in a player that stands in the crease and plays no part in generating or preventing the generation of chances.

 

[GAGLine]

I honestly think Shesterkin doesn't get another contract here if Garand shows he can be a #1, and that the right decision imo. Move him, get assets, have a cheap #1 goalie.

That's probably too aggressive. The only window to trade Shesterkin is next summer. Garand will spend most if not all of this season in the AHL. Even if he has a really good year in the AHL, they aren't going to trade Shesty without seeing what Garand can do in the NHL first.

Best bet is to re-sign Shesty then trade him later. Though to do that, we have to be smart with the movement clauses.

 

[duhmetreE]

The concept is you typically need a goalie to play great-elite to win.

An elite goaltender has the best chance of being great-elite.

not a hard concept to follow.

If your top paid skaters are dog shit in the Playoffs, it doesn't matter how much you pay the goalie.

We're talking about moving arguably our best player ( maybe #2 to Fox ) to appease who exactly? How about we get rid of the dead weight skaters and address that problem first?

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Cuylle for Calder

 

[Shesterkybomb]

That's probably too aggressive. The only window to trade Shesterkin is next summer. Garand will spend most if not all of this season in the AHL. Even if he has a really good year in the AHL, they aren't going to trade Shesty without seeing what Garand can do in the NHL first.

Best bet is to re-sign Shesty then trade him later. Though to do that, we have to be smart with the movement clauses.

He's signed until end of 24-25. If Garand proves he's ready you can't give Igor a 10 mill long term deal it would be foolish when you could have a goalie on league minimum doing the job.

 

[TGWL]

We fast!

So Kreider and Julien Gauthier split 93 times while the other players were negatives...

So now we want to trade Igor and go with a mediocre goalie and hope he catches fire to win a cup......wow.

Most teams in this league would die to have Igor as their goalie and fans here want to trade him......WTF.

No, we don't want to trade him. No, we're not looking to take back some meh value right now.

Yes, we would trade him if the value was too good to pass up. Yes, we would trade him if the next contract started with a high number over long term. There's a big difference between wanting to get rid of him and not wanting to hand out that monster contract.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

So Kreider and Julien Gauthier split 93 times while the other players were negatives...


No, we don't want to trade him. No, we're not looking to take back some meh value right now.

Yes, we would trade him if the value was too good to pass up. Yes, we would trade him if the next contract started with a high number over long term. There's a big difference between wanting to get rid of him and not wanting to hand out that monster contract.

I look at Lundqvist, his 6.75 or whatever it was never hurt us much, its when he moved up from that that it started costing us guys like zuccarello due to the cap

 

[apoptygma]

No argument that Igor is worth 11 million per season, speicaly with the cap rising in the comming seasons. The issue is you get poor results on investing in goalie salary beyond the mean caphit of golaies around the league. The difference between a 11 mill skater and a 5,5 mill skater is way bigger then a 11 mill goalie and a 5,5 mill skater.

For the near future I would keep an eye on how things are shaking out in Boston for Swayman and in Minnesota for Gustavsson.

 

[chosen]

If another thread like this exists, delete this one.

I'm of the belief that we're about to find out that those who have been saying a major problem of the Rangers has been their last 3 coaches was wrong, and I doubt Laviolette gets more out of this team than Gallant did.

I also never bought that those coaches hindered the development of Lafreniere, Kakko, and Chytil.

Lafreniere might blossom, but very few still believe that.

Kakko was an utter disaster as a rookie, but has improved a great deal since then and I think he'll be fine.

Chytil, at least so far, can be the best player on the ice, but he gets hurt a lot, and when he returns, it takes him weeks to get back to his top level. He better stay healthy.

A coach can get a team to play a more disciplined defensive game, but he has to have the personnel to accomplish that. I don't think the Rangers have that personnel.

I doubt Laviolette will be the coach when next season begins.

 

[GAGLine]

He's signed until end of 24-25. If Garand proves he's ready you can't give Igor a 10 mill long term deal it would be foolish when you could have a goalie on league minimum doing the job.

Yes, he's signed until 24-25, but if the idea is to trade him and get assets back, the only time to do that is next summer. Garand won't be ready to be the #1 by then. There's a good chance he won't have even played any NHL games by then. And franchise goalies don't get traded mid-season. Unless we are way out of the playoff race by March 2025, there's zero chance we would trade Shesty mid-season. So what does that leave us with? Trade his UFA rights for a 3rd round pick so we can run with the goalie who has maybe 1 year of NHL experience as a backup?

The idea is a pipe dream. It won't happen. For all we know, Garand might not be a capable #1 NHL goalie. We will re-sign Shesty. If we're smart about it, we'll structure it in such a way that we can move him before the deal is up, assuming Garand actually shows that he can take his place.

 

[Profet]

Lafreniere might blossom

Lol

(That is all)

 

[pld459666]

Most teams in this league would die to have Igor as their goalie and fans here want to trade him......WTF.

Good, that should bode well for the return when we trade him.

 

[Lua]

If another thread like this exists, delete this one.

I'm of the belief that we're about to find out that those who have been saying a major problem of the Rangers has been their last 3 coaches was wrong, and I doubt Laviolette gets more out of this team than Gallant did.

I also never bought that those coaches hindered the development of Lafreniere, Kakko, and Chytil.

Lafreniere might blossom, but very few still believe that.

Kakko was an utter disaster as a rookie, but has improved a great deal since then and I think he'll be fine.

Chytil, at least so far, can be the best player on the ice, but he gets hurt a lot, and when he returns, it takes him weeks to get back to his top level. He better stay healthy.

A coach can get a team to play a more disciplined defensive game, but he has to have the personnel to accomplish that. I don't think the Rangers have that personnel.

I doubt Laviolette will be the coach when next season begins.

After 15 games, Lavi's ~system~ will kick in, and our players will ~buy in~ and all of a sudden they'll be able to skate really fast, complete tape-to-tape passes and break out through the neutral zone with speed. Laf will be pacing an 85-point season because he has 16 minutes per game instead of 15. And then we'll put Lavi on our on our shoulders and march down 6th avenue shouting "Hip, hip, hooray."

 

[McRanger92]

The perpetual rebuild folks are going to get what they wished for if the Rangers trade Shesterkin

 

[Profet]

The perpetual rebuild folks are going to get what they wished for if the Rangers trade Shesterkin

The perpetual mediocrity folks are going to get what they wished for if the Rangers don't make changes.

 

[McRanger92]

The perpetual mediocrity folks are going to get what they wished for if the Rangers don't make changes.

People here love to throw around the word "mediocrity" like it's a curse. I dont think half of you know what it means

 

[CLW]

Yes, he's signed until 24-25, but if the idea is to trade him and get assets back, the only time to do that is next summer. Garand won't be ready to be the #1 by then. There's a good chance he won't have even played any NHL games by then. And franchise goalies don't get traded mid-season. Unless we are way out of the playoff race by March 2025, there's zero chance we would trade Shesty mid-season. So what does that leave us with? Trade his UFA rights for a 3rd round pick so we can run with the goalie who has maybe 1 year of NHL experience as a backup?

The idea is a pipe dream. It won't happen. For all we know, Garand might not be a capable #1 NHL goalie. We will re-sign Shesty. If we're smart about it, we'll structure it in such a way that we can move him before the deal is up, assuming Garand actually shows that he can take his place.

The Rangers will give Igor a "Big Ticket" contract. Igor is right here, he is immensely popular and if there's anything we know about the Rangers and ownership is that they want a Big Name or two to market. It's the NYR way.

 

[bernmeister]

That's probably too aggressive. The only window to trade Shesterkin is next summer. Garand will spend most if not all of this season in the AHL. Even if he has a really good year in the AHL, they aren't going to trade Shesty without seeing what Garand can do in the NHL first.

Best bet is to re-sign Shesty then trade him later. Though to do that, we have to be smart with the movement clauses.

Yes, he's signed until 24-25, but if the idea is to trade him and get assets back, the only time to do that is next summer. Garand won't be ready to be the #1 by then. There's a good chance he won't have even played any NHL games by then. And franchise goalies don't get traded mid-season. Unless we are way out of the playoff race by March 2025, there's zero chance we would trade Shesty mid-season. So what does that leave us with? Trade his UFA rights for a 3rd round pick so we can run with the goalie who has maybe 1 year of NHL experience as a backup?

The idea is a pipe dream. It won't happen. For all we know, Garand might not be a capable #1 NHL goalie. We will re-sign Shesty. If we're smart about it, we'll structure it in such a way that we can move him before the deal is up, assuming Garand actually shows that he can take his place.

Waiting would be a mistake b'c unarguably, Shesty gets more -- A LOT MORE -- if he is dealt w/more term on a cheaper deal = NOW
Don't go half assed.
Remember stupidity of waiting until Buch only had sliver or rfa left.
Hugely minimized the return.

The perpetual rebuild folks are going to get what they wished for if the Rangers trade Shesterkin

If they are smart and deal now and get a Sanderson + level return for Shesty +, yes.
Let's remember there would be no need for a perpetual rebuild if both
-- they drafted smarter
and
-- they listened to bern, did not make stupid deals; on reflection my suggestions hold up more than not.

 

[bernmeister]

claim Johnston from Isles on waivers, just to eff w/them. pay some club a 6th to take Leshitshow's remaining yr. Put J in the A. Deal Vesey, Goodrow. Hopefully get good 3RD after Fox and Schneid to 2RD.
Killer 4th checking line Johnston - Rempe - Trouba

 

[Savant]

The concept is you typically need a goalie to play great-elite to win.

An elite goaltender has the best chance of being great-elite.

not a hard concept to follow.

If your top paid skaters are dog shit in the Playoffs, it doesn't matter how much you pay the goalie.

We're talking about moving arguably our best player ( maybe #2 to Fox ) to appease who exactly? How about we get rid of the dead weight skaters and address that problem first?

Because the dead weight skaters have no value and it’s harder than ever to move bad contracts, especially ones with NMC/NTC

 

[bleedblue94]

I have no inside info on this but I keep thinking to myself that IF nyr move laffy there are a couple ideal locations to send him:
chicago
anaheim
san jose
arizona
vancouver

If nyr trade laffy he is not going to end up in the east, he certainly wont be traded to the habs (gorts afftect) or even ottawa (not sending him there to listen to how ott has 3 of top 5 picks from that draft and rub it in their faces nationally).

it would absolutely be an out west trade and i keep looking at the ducks with their tons of elite young d men and space for young forward talent on the wings.

i doubt they would send him to chicago and with all the hype around bedard for risk of the optics there (hawks will now be a national spotlight team).

san jose has very little to offer although the drury grier connection could help get something done.

bill armstrong wouldnt absolute work drury over in a deal so i dont see that as a winnable situation.

with vancouver i have no idea what of value they could send back to us unless pettersen wont resign there and we do something nutty like schneider, laffy and something else significant (would trocheck waive) for his rights but then the cap starts saying hello and we are boxed into a mess and would also need to free more cash to replace schneider (who has also been seen as a possible trouba replacement if we move him, so it becomes a bigger hole).

what a mess this has become. 1oa pick should be a blessing and instead it's a circus...

 

[Machinehead]

The perpetual rebuild folks are going to get what they wished for if the Rangers trade Shesterkin

If they need an elite goaltender to function, then blowing it up is for the best.

 

[TominNC]

The perpetual mediocrity folks are going to get what they wished for if the Rangers don't make changes.

You mean the perpetual contenders people? The team is once again a contender.

 

[Machinehead]

The concept is you typically need a goalie to play great-elite to win.

An elite goaltender has the best chance of being great-elite.

not a hard concept to follow.

It's also not a hard concept to disprove.

Here are the Cup winning goalies since the lockout:

Adin Hill - arguably a 4th stringer

Darcy Kuemper - not even re-signed by the team, terrible playoff run, bad in 22-23

Andrey Vasilevskiy - fair enough

Jordan Binnington - trash starter playing his way out of the league

Braden Holtby - Already wasn't a starting-caliber goalie by the time they won the Cup (.907 in the regular season that year) and hasn't been one since

Matt Murray - was never a starting goaltender in the NHL

Corey Crawford - low-key elite; this one checks out

Jonathan Quick - take out 2011-12 and he has a negative career GSAA

Tim Thomas - Valid: probably the preeminent Cup-winning goalie run of the last 30 years

Antti Niemi - LMFAO

Marc-Andre Fleury - literally one of the worst GSAA in the history of the playoffs, but hey probably a Hall of Famer!

Chris Osgood - career .905; dime a dozen goalie

J.S. Giguere - he was good

Cam Ward - he wasn't

A LOT more mediocre than good on this list, and some of it is downright bad. No Lundqvist, no Luongo, no Rask, no Rinne, no Bobrovsky, no Price.

In fact, only four names are on both this list and a list of Vezina winners. One is MAF who cracks like an egg in the post-season and one is Holtby who won the Vezina prior to his decline.

So, I don't know, do they have the best chance? Doesn't seem like it.

 

[McRanger92]

If they need an elite goaltender to function, then blowing it up is for the best.

Putting words in my mouth. I never said they needed an elite goalie to "function". Id just love to see how trading a Vezina winning goalie in his prime makes us better. So far all I see is whining that we'll never be good enough.