Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[bleedblue94]

Also, literally nobody said trade Shesterkin.

People are saying don't give Shesterkin $12m going into 2026.

there are people who have said to trade igor. people in this thread have said it in the past and said to deal him for assets and use garand as the new starter in a few years.

 

[Machinehead]

If we actually got a #1 or #2 pick, it'd be different?

we were gifted a future HOF defenseman on top of it.

What more can this team ask for? We get all the UFAs. We have a top player force his way here for peanuts. We win a #1 an #2 pick. We have the best goalie in the league...

What better scenario is going to come our way? We just have to suck at better times?

We need better management. Same guy, same results.

You're overthinking it. It's not about what scenario happened or didn't happen.

The roster they have now is mostly an old roster that was never good enough. That's it. It's very simple.

Remove Fox, Lafreniere, and Kakko, and these are just the covid Rangers that missed the real playoffs multiple times and got bodied in the bubble, only older and without Buchnevich.

They never went through the process of building something better.

 

[McRanger92]

It doesn’t make us better in a vacuum, and it doesn’t make us better while he is on this current contract.

This is not hard. He’s of great value and a huge net positive to the team right now.

That will likely no longer be the case when his salary doubles on his next contract.

That’s it.

What are we getting for him then? Because the "value" you're talking about is completely subjective without knowing the quality of the players we're getting back and the downgrade in goal. Is there a team out there that will match the Rangers probably enormous asking price and pay Igor 8 figures annually?

 

[Machinehead]

there are people who have said to trade igor. people in this thread have said it in the past and said to deal him for assets and use garand as the new starter in a few years.

We're here now and locked into the core. I would ride it out with Shesterkin and let him walk. We've seen before that goalies return disappointing assets anyway.

 

[McRanger92]

You said that last year. I, and others, told you exactly how the Devils series would play out and that's how it played out. This team is not good enough to get out of their division. They weren't last year and nothing changed.

Huge credit to sticking to your guns tho. Honestly.

Loser mentality. Im sorry you feel that way. Its unfortunate that the roster has taken on the mindset of it's fanbase

 

[duhmetreE]

You're overthinking it. It's not about what scenario happened or didn't happen.

The roster they have now is mostly an old roster that was never good enough. That's it. It's very simple.

Remove Fox, Lafreniere, and Kakko, and these are just the covid Rangers that missed the real playoffs multiple times and got bodied in the bubble, only older and without Buchnevich.

They never went through the process of building something better.

are we though?

We have Fox, KAM, Laffy, Kakko and Chytil. We have Cuylle and Othmann on the way. Maybe Perrault in a few years.

We have another 3 or so years of 'strong' play from our vets. Guys like Trouba might be moved. Panarin if he has another bad playoffs might possibly will be forced out.

age is heavily skewed by Wheeler, Quick and Bonino. These guys wont even be here next year.

 

[Machinehead]

Loser mentality. Im sorry you feel that way. Its unfortunate that the roster has taken on the mindset of it's fanbase

It's the truth. They're a playoff team but probably not a Cup contender, especially with the awful playoff system that puts us up against a top three team in the league in round one (almost guaranteed).

 

[Machinehead]

I don't care that much about the next couple of years anyway.

This is the team they have. They'll win or they won't and you can think whatever you want about that.

Might as well give them Shesterkin.

My concern with Shesterkin is a scenario where Chytil breaks out, Kakko breaks out, Miller breaks out, they hit on a few other picks/prospects and go into 2030 with a contending young core and a 34 year old Shesterkin is making $11.5m.

 

[McRanger92]

It's the truth. They're a playoff team but probably not a Cup contender, especially with the awful playoff system that puts us up against a top three team in the league in round one (almost guaranteed).

Bring it on. We're a good team too.

 

[Machinehead]

Bring it on. We're a good team too.

You've said this time and again and you also talk about the team having a loser mindset.

I'm interested in hearing how you reconcile hedging your bets on a roster you think is a loser in crunch time.

 

[McRanger92]

You've said this time and again and you also talk about the team having a loser mindset.

I'm interested in hearing how you reconcile hedging your bets on a roster you think is a loser in crunch time.

Sports fandom is inherently paradoxical isnt it?

In all seriousness, my hope is the new coaching staff can get the team to play with the intensity they have lacked for stretches (like the Devils series) over the past 2 seasons.

 

[duhmetreE]

Vince nailed it here. For some reason, 99% of everyones ire has been placed on Laf this camp but the spotlight should really be on Panarin.

If he has a slow start, that anger is going to shift and shift fast. May not even take a slow start, it may happen after the first turnover that leads to a goal against.

"I was working out hard during the summer," Kakko said. "It's time to go."

We need to hear that from someone else.

 

[I Eat Crow]

If they need an elite goaltender to function, then blowing it up is for the best.

Ding ding ding

 

[Ruggs225]

You're overthinking it. It's not about what scenario happened or didn't happen.

The roster they have now is mostly an old roster that was never good enough. That's it. It's very simple.

Remove Fox, Lafreniere, and Kakko, and these are just the covid Rangers that missed the real playoffs multiple times and got bodied in the bubble, only older and without Buchnevich.

They never went through the process of building something better.

This is disingenuous. The entire freaking defense is bc of the rebuild, not just fox.

Forwards a a different story, but that is bc our drafting sucked. But we do have some kids getting close to breaking in with Othmann being the top option. Plus Cuylle.

We tried a revuild. We had 7 first round picks in 3 years. We had a #1 and #2 overall, something that some rebuilding teams never get like Detroit.

Its just that our 4 top 10 picks didnt pan put like we wanted too. It really is as easy as that.

If laff and kakko played pike a #1 or #2 overall than we might have won a cup in the last two years.

We never would have needed to go through a 5-10 year rebuild if our great draft capital actually panned out.

We actually went about the rebuild the right way. We skipped most of the mediocrity part at the end of the las cup window and tore it down and got a ton of assets. We had a good amount of high picks. We had solid vet support.

We shit the bed drafting. End of story.

 

[Profet]

You can’t win unless you’re in. Keep taking shots with good teams

 

[I Eat Crow]

We're here now and locked into the core. I would ride it out with Shesterkin and let him walk. We've seen before that goalies return disappointing assets anyway.

I've been agreeing with you for the last two pages until this.

The Rangers absolutely should look to get the best return at the deadline in 2025 if they're 3rd or 4th (or 5th or 6th) in the division and you have New Jersey and Carolina running roughshod over the NHL.

Goalies aren't worth much but you can't tell me Edmonton, Vegas, or LA (barf) wouldn't pay a 1st and a blue chip prospect to rent Igor to chase a Cup. It also let's the Rangers evaluate Garand for 20 games as the guy to see if he's ready for the job by then or if they need to go shopping in the offseason of 2025.

 

[Machinehead]

I've been agreeing with you for the last two pages until this.

The Rangers absolutely should look to get the best return at the deadline in 2025 if they're 3rd or 4th (or 5th or 6th) in the division and you have New Jersey and Carolina running roughshod over the NHL.

Goalies aren't worth much but you can't tell me Edmonton, Vegas, or LA (barf) wouldn't pay a 1st and a blue chip prospect to rent Igor to chase a Cup. It also let's the Rangers evaluate Garand for 20 games as the guy to see if he's ready for the job by then or if they need to go shopping in the offseason of 2025.

No, I do see your point.

I'm just kind of chalking it up to being realistic. There's no way in hell this team sells next deadline based on their recent moves.

 

[Machinehead]

This is disingenuous. The entire freaking defense is bc of the rebuild, not just fox.

Forwards a a different story, but that is bc our drafting sucked. But we do have some kids getting close to breaking in with Othmann being the top option. Plus Cuylle.

We tried a revuild. We had 7 first round picks in 3 years. We had a #1 and #2 overall, something that some rebuilding teams never get like Detroit.

Its just that our 4 top 10 picks didnt pan put like we wanted too. It really is as easy as that.

If laff and kakko played pike a #1 or #2 overall than we might have won a cup in the last two years.

We never would have needed to go through a 5-10 year rebuild if our great draft capital actually panned out.

We actually went about the rebuild the right way. We skipped most of the mediocrity part at the end of the las cup window and tore it down and got a ton of assets. We had a good amount of high picks. We had solid vet support.

We shit the bed drafting. End of story.

The teams that have successful rebuilds have lots of high picks not pan out.

We should have been more patient with the process instead of just assuming that our top 10 picks would be a great young core and we could start signing support.

It didn't happen and now we're stuck the contracts.

The Devils started handing out contracts to plug holes after they knew what they had.

We had to sign Trouba in 2019 coming off of 78 points? We couldn't have revisited RD in a couple of years in a post-Fox world? Trouba was that can't-miss?

 

[mas0764]

I'm in the @Machinehead boat of goalie theory. It's random has hell and you don't need a high end goalie to win a Cup. Even the elite goalies shit the bed in the playoffs sometimes. All you need is a middle of the road goalie playing well to go deep. Elite skaters going on hot streaks, depth, and luck, in that order, are the major factors that distinguish between a deep run and a first round exit.

Igor was pedestrian and the top guys except for Krieder shit the bed against the Devils. No surprise they were eliminated.

Yup, good goalies are nice but elite forward talent - and by that I mean the Crosbys, Kanes and McDavids of the world - are better. It's not 2002 anymore. You need the elite offensive talent that we have never really had. In this conceptualization, Zibanejad is not high end enough and Panarin was elite for too short a time. No one else has come close.

 

[duhmetreE]

 

[Machinehead]

Poor Chytil.

I hope Laviolette shows patience with (finally) the correct top line.

 

[mas0764]

It's also not a hard concept to disprove.

Here are the Cup winning goalies since the lockout:

Adin Hill - arguably a 4th stringer

Darcy Kuemper - not even re-signed by the team, terrible playoff run, bad in 22-23

Andrey Vasilevskiy - fair enough

Jordan Binnington - trash starter playing his way out of the league

Braden Holtby - Already wasn't a starting-caliber goalie by the time they won the Cup (.907 in the regular season that year) and hasn't been one since

Matt Murray - was never a starting goaltender in the NHL

Corey Crawford - low-key elite; this one checks out

Jonathan Quick - take out 2011-12 and he has a negative career GSAA

Tim Thomas - Valid: probably the preeminent Cup-winning goalie run of the last 30 years

Antti Niemi - LMFAO

Marc-Andre Fleury - literally one of the worst GSAA in the history of the playoffs, but hey probably a Hall of Famer!

Chris Osgood - career .905; dime a dozen goalie

J.S. Giguere - he was good

Cam Ward - he wasn't

A LOT more mediocre than good on this list, and some of it is downright bad. No Lundqvist, no Luongo, no Rask, no Rinne, no Bobrovsky, no Price.

In fact, only four names are on both this list and a list of Vezina winners. One is MAF who cracks like an egg in the post-season and one is Holtby who won the Vezina prior to his decline.

So, I don't know, do they have the best chance? Doesn't seem like it.

Now do the winners with elite forward talent.

 

[Ruggs225]

The teams that have successful rebuilds have lots of high picks not pan out.

We should have been more patient with the process instead of just assuming that our top 10 picks would be a great young core and we could start signing support.

It didn't happen and now we're stuck the contracts.

The Devils started handing out contracts to plug holes after they knew what they had.

We had to sign Trouba in 2019 coming off of 78 points? We couldn't have revisited RD in a couple of years in a post-Fox world? Trouba was that can't-miss?

Really? How many top 10 picks did colorsdo have that failed. Or tampa.?

If the devils win it all how many top 10 picks did they have fail?

How about top 5 picks failing.

Late first mean jack and many fail. You cant miss on top 10 picks and especially not top 5 picks.

All these rebuilds you fantasize had one thing in common. The top 5 picks all were hits and became major stars. Crosby, kane, ovechkin, backstrom, malkin, landeskog, mackinnon, makar, stamkos, hedman etc.

We have laf and kakko. This is the full story right there. If laff and kakko were close to any of the players above, we win the cup.

It really is that simple.

We have a good team. A really good team. We would have an amazing team if laf and kakko were hits. Better than the tampa teams that won recently.

You are right that u can mis on a high pick here or there. U cant miss on all 4 top 10s including the 1 and 2.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Yes, he's signed until 24-25, but if the idea is to trade him and get assets back, the only time to do that is next summer. Garand won't be ready to be the #1 by then. There's a good chance he won't have even played any NHL games by then. And franchise goalies don't get traded mid-season. Unless we are way out of the playoff race by March 2025, there's zero chance we would trade Shesty mid-season. So what does that leave us with? Trade his UFA rights for a 3rd round pick so we can run with the goalie who has maybe 1 year of NHL experience as a backup?

The idea is a pipe dream. It won't happen. For all we know, Garand might not be a capable #1 NHL goalie. We will re-sign Shesty. If we're smart about it, we'll structure it in such a way that we can move him before the deal is up, assuming Garand actually shows that he can take his place.

If Shesterkin is still playing like he is, are you comfortable with a 7 year deal for 9.5-11 mill with ntc, because thats what he will get. Everything hinges on Garand who by all accounts looks to be a very good nhl goalie. If he can come in and man the net for 9 mill less a year for 3 years it's a no brainer. Lots of time to trade Shesterkin if thats the route they go, you can go right to the deadline if you want. A Shesterkin trade could net us a top line player and picks along with 9 million in cap savings. Carey Price essentially handcuffed the habs with his cap hit, and truth be told Hendrik handcuffed us a bit with his last contract.

 

[duhmetreE]

Really? How many top 10 picks did colorsdo have that failed. Or tampa.?

If the devils win it all how many top 10 picks did they have fail?

How about top 5 picks failing.

Late first mean jack and many fail. You cant miss on top 10 picks and especially not top 5 picks.

All these rebuilds you fantasize had one thing in common. The top 5 picks all were hits and became major stars. Crosby, kane, ovechkin, backstrom, malkin, landeskog, mackinnon, makar, stamkos, hedman etc.

We have laf and kakko. This is the full story right there. If laff and kakko were close to any of the players above, we win the cup.

It really is that simple.

We have a good team. A really good team. We would have an amazing team if laf and kakko were hits. Better than the tampa teams that won recently.

You are right that u can mis on a high pick here or there. U cant miss on all 4 top 10s including the 1 and 2.

you can miss on top10 picks, everyone does. you can't miss on ALL of your top 10 picks. As of right now, none of them are perfoming upto their draft status.

I still have hope for Kakko and even Laffy.... just taking a lot longer than expected.

Kravtsov turned into Cuylle, so that was somewhat salvaged.