Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[Machinehead]

It also depends on where we are when the deadline comes.

By the deadline last year, the team's rolling underlying numbers had already begun to cave and a matchup with the Devils they were never going to win was pretty much set.

So far this year, we're decent enough at 5v5 and looked like a pro team against our likely matchups. It would be wise to see if that continues.

If we're in a similar position in February, I would definitely give up future pieces to give the team we've seen the last ten games a chance at it.

 

[bhamill]

Asking for a specific scenario is getting into nothing but speculation, but here's a scenario.

Nick Schmaltz has two years left after this one. The Coyotes aren't there yet. His contract is very heavy on bonuses which we can pay no problem. He's fantastic at even strength and can play center in a pinch.

If the Coyotes decide he's not likely to extend and he becomes available, I move Kakko and a first for him with zero hesitation.

Schmaltz is a nice player. And if we get him for three runs that’s great. However do you think he is what puts us over the top? And as soon as next year KK could well be just as good or better all around. Plus we gave up a first, that admittedly should be very late. But unless we win the cup with him, and he’s a big part of it, in 3-4 years this will likely be considered a bad trade.

 

[Machinehead]

I still think Chytil would be a decent RW if we trade Crapo Caka

Kreider-Zibby-Wheeler
Panarin-Trochek-Laf
Cuylle-Schmaltz-Chytil

This doesn't make much since to me given that Schmaltz is an emergency center and Chytil has played nothing but center.

I don't get the impetus to move Chytil from center. He's played 337 games in the NHL. How many were at wing? Like two?

The only reason I'm talking about getting a guy who can feasibly play center is because Chytil is made out of paper. If Chytil is healthy, him playing center is the plan. He's never been anything but a center.

 

[Machinehead]

Schmaltz is a nice player. And if we get him for three runs that’s great. However do you think he is what puts us over the top? And as soon as next year KK could well be just as good or better all around. Plus we gave up a first, that admittedly should be very late. But unless we win the cup with him, and he’s a big part of it, in 3-4 years this will likely be considered a bad trade.

The idea of "this guy does or doesn't put us over the top" is also overstated. You can go in with Team Canada and go out in the first round. That's hockey.

It's all about whether or not you want to risk what you're giving up. I'm willing to risk Kakko's ceiling at this point.

 

[rangersfansince08]

This doesn't make much since to me given that Schmaltz is an emergency center and Chytil has played nothing but center.

I don't get the impetus to move Chytil from center. He's played 337 games in the NHL. How many were at wing? Like two?

The only reason I'm talking about getting a guy who can feasibly play center is because Chytil is made out of paper. If Chytil is healthy, him playing center is the plan. He's never been anything but a center.

Oh I thought Schmaltz was a full time center. If he is mostly playing wing then I agree leave Chytil at center.

 

[bhamill]

It also depends on where we are when the deadline comes.

By the deadline last year, the team's rolling underlying numbers had already begun to cave and a matchup with the Devils they were never going to win was pretty much set.

So far this year, we're decent enough at 5v5 and looked like a pro team against our likely matchups. It would be wise to see if that continues.

If we're in a similar position in February, I would definitely give up future pieces to give the team we've seen the last ten games a chance at it.

I disagree with “that they were never going to win.” We SHOULD have won that, and easily COULD have. We made a mediocre backup look like a star. Yes Devils were the better team, but obviously part of that was NYR just self destructing, including Pan’s disappearing act.
But yeah, situational. As far as Kakko too. Here’s a lot of runway till the TDL, if he’s STILL playing like this, the pessimism will be more warranted than it is now at 19 games.

 

[Machinehead]

Oh I thought Schmaltz was a full time center. If he is mostly playing wing then I agree leave Chytil at center.

Aside from faceoffs (which I still don't care about and it's not worth rehashing the arguments), Chytil is actually really good at traditional "center things." He excels at zone entries, is sound defensively, controls the puck well, and can hold his own on the boards.

He is what we tell ourselves Kakko is when Kakko has his Jagr shift every ten games.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Schmaltz had 51 and 46 5v5 pts the past 2 years. That's exactly what plagues us. Getting him for 3 years would be huge. That def moves the needle

 

[Machinehead]

I disagree with “that they were never going to win.” We SHOULD have won that, and easily COULD have. We made a mediocre backup look like a star. Yes Devils were the better team, but obviously part of that was NYR just self destructing, including Pan’s disappearing act.
But yeah, situational. As far as Kakko too. Here’s a lot of runway till the TDL, if he’s STILL playing like this, the pessimism will be more warranted than it is now at 19 games.

The Devils outplayed us in 6 out of 7 games. There's a reason they won with their backup.

That's the past now, but it was the worst possible matchup for Gallant's Rangers in 2023.

Our game in Jersey this year was the first time we played then in two years and I thought "this looks like an NHL game" which was encouraging.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Aside from faceoffs (which I still don't care about and it's not worth rehashing the arguments), Chytil is actually really good at traditional "center things." He excels at zone entries, is sound defensively, controls the puck well, and can hold his own on the boards.

He is what we tell ourselves Kakko is when Kakko has his Jagr shift every ten games.

True. And I think he was breaking even on faceoffs this year before he got hurt. Adding Schmaltz and getting Chytil and Fox back would be a big boost to our 5 on 5 play. Hopefully Laf's passes start going in too.

 

[bhamill]

The idea of "this guy does or doesn't put us over the top" is also overstated. You can go in with Team Canada and go out in the first round. That's hockey.

It's all about whether or not you want to risk what you're giving up. I'm willing to risk Kakko's ceiling at this point.

By “put us over the top” I mean make us heavily favored. I don’t think that is overstated. Of course there are zero guarantees. See also Boston 2023 playoffs… BUT, if we make a sacrificial “win now” trade and don’t win now… well, thats going to be considered a BAD trade in context, and rightly so. A big swing and a miss is a big miss…

 

[DanielBrassard]

Schmaltz is a nice player. And if we get him for three runs that’s great. However do you think he is what puts us over the top? And as soon as next year KK could well be just as good or better all around. Plus we gave up a first, that admittedly should be very late. But unless we win the cup with him, and he’s a big part of it, in 3-4 years this will likely be considered a bad trade.

If you think Kakko has the potential to be better than a guy who has been close to PPG over the past 2 seasons than I can understand why you would be hesitant to trade him. However I think that is a vast overestimation of what Kakko’s upside is at this point in his career. I dont even know if he would have enough value to bring back a player like Schmaltz who is on an excellent contract.

 

[Machinehead]

True. And I think he was breaking even on faceoffs this year before he got hurt. Adding Schmaltz and getting Chytil and Fox back would be a big boost to our 5 on 5 play. Hopefully Laf's passes start going in too.

Lafreniere is actually looking really good and just not scoring, another thing we tell ourselves about Kakko.

 

[bhamill]

The Devils outplayed us in 6 out of 7 games. There's a reason they won with their backup.

That's the past now, but it was the worst possible matchup for Gallant's Rangers in 2023.

Our game in Jersey this year was the first time we played then in two years and I thought "this looks like an NHL game" which was encouraging.

They outplayed us in four games. We DOMINATED them the first two. And should have won the series. Gallant in hindsight (for me, a lot of you were correct about him from the start) was definitely a reason. No adjustment.

 

[Machinehead]

By “put us over the top” I mean make us heavily favored. I don’t think that is overstated. Of course there are zero guarantees. See also Boston 2023 playoffs… BUT, if we make a sacrificial “win now” trade and don’t win now… well, thats going to be considered a BAD trade in context, and rightly so. A big swing and a miss is a big miss…

There's no such thing as heavily favored. If you're one of eight that can feasibly win it, that's pretty good.

That's still no reason to not improve the team because you're grasping onto guys that might be decent depth players down the line. The Yankees made that mistake in 2017 and arguably never had the horses after that. Nobody they held onto is that big of a deal six years later.

 

[Machinehead]

They outplayed us in four games. We DOMINATED them the first two. And should have won the series. Gallant in hindsight (for me, a lot of you were correct about him from the start) was definitely a reason. No adjustment.

They had the puck the whole game in game 1.

That was a classic "score 5 goals on 12 shots" AV performance.

 

[rangersfansince08]

By “put us over the top” I mean make us heavily favored. I don’t think that is overstated. Of course there are zero guarantees. See also Boston 2023 playoffs… BUT, if we make a sacrificial “win now” trade and don’t win now… well, thats going to be considered a BAD trade in context, and rightly so. A big swing and a miss is a big miss…

Those players don't exist.

 

[zlev]

we were only up 2-0 because Vanecek was horrifically bad

 

[rangersfansince08]

Lafreniere is actually looking really good and just not scoring, another thing we tell ourselves about Kakko.

True. They will go in for him soon. He also looks better than Kakko has ever looked. He has made more elite passes this year than Kakko has done in his career.

 

[bhamill]

If you think Kakko has the potential to be better than a guy who has been close to PPG over the past 2 seasons then I can understand why you would be hesitant to trade him. However I think that is a vast overestimation of what Kakko’s upside is at this point in his career. I dont even know if he would have enough value to bring back a player like Schmaltz who is on an excellent contract.

I see KK as topping out at around 65 points and being excellent defensively.
12 of Schmaltz’ 58 points (just 63 games) last year were on the pp. Obviously he’s not displacing anyone on pp1 with it’s efficiency, so… He would be great for us to have, but he would not likely be putting up the same numbers.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

If they're looking at the Coyotes, Zucker is the way to go. Won't cost as much and can either play to Vatrano role with the bros or add more sandpaper to the middle six.

 

[bhamill]

Lafreniere is actually looking really good and just not scoring, another thing we tell ourselves about Kakko.

Kakko does NOT look good at all on offense, to me. He’s completely devoid of confidence In the O zone. But that’s fixable. Look at Laf. That’s a good 90% of his improvement.

 

[Machinehead]

Kakko does NOT look good at all on offense, to me. He’s completely devoid of confidence In the O zone. But that’s fixable. Look at Laf. That’s a good 90% of his improvement.

We keep saying it's fixable.

We talked about how this is their third coach and it would be telling. Lafreniere has responded and Kakko hasn't.

 

[bhamill]

we were only up 2-0 because Vanecek was horrifically bad

And we didn’t make him look good like we did Schmid.

 

[rangersfansince08]

I see KK as topping out at around 65 points and being excellent defensively.
12 of Schmaltz’ 58 points (just 63 games) last year were on the pp. Obviously he’s not displacing anyone on pp1 with it’s efficiency, so… He would be great for us to have, but he would not likely be putting up the same numbers.

46 and 51 pts 5v5 in 63 games the last 2 years is a 60 and 66 pt pace. That's elite 5v5 production no?