Roster Building Thread - Part VIII (2023-24 season)

[Machinehead]

I think a lot of you are severely overreacting to a rough stretch of 19 games for Kakko. It’s been disappointing compared to where he was last year, but it’s also been mixed with some horrible on-ice shooting luck and then poor compatibility with linemates.

The Bonino signing was great for many reasons, but the guy really isn’t meant to be the 3C. There’s been plenty of plays where he’s had the chance to get the puck to Kakko in the slot, and he’s opted to take the puck deep below the goal line. Kakko needs to do more himself too, but the fit between those two is terrible.

It's been a rough stretch of 258 games for Kakko.

 

[duhmetreE]

It's been a rough stretch of 258 games for Kakko.

Kakko got low T Zibs and Bonino. Zibs is much better the past few games

He’d be much better with chytil or Tro

He does look lost and weak right now though

 

[LOFIN]

If trading Kakko brings in an upgrade for this season then you do it.

Sure, but on what planet you have to live to imagine he would bring an upgrade?

 

[bhamill]

Second straight healthy scratch for Kuzmenko

Maybe something around Kakko+ for Kuzmenko?

Why is he scratched? A guy who was almost ppg last year, not bad numbers this year… but is a healthy scratch? Something’s f***ed up there.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I don't think we necessarily need a pure scorer.

I would like to get a speedy, giddy-up type player to play with Kreider and Zibanejad and move Wheeler back down to the 3rd line where I thought he was fine.

I'm also not convinced RW is the spot to upgrade, as much as Kakko is just a warm body at this point.

If we're serious about winning this year, we probably need a center. We don't know when Chytil is coming back and I don't trust him if he does.

Maybe get a center that can also play wing, and then if Chytil comes back, that's your RW'er.

Also, our second pair sucks. I'm not interested in arguing about Miller or Trouba as individuals, but as a pair, they blow. I don't think that needs to be an acquisition thing, necessarily, but we should re-jigger the pairs when Fox comes back.

I would agree that we don’t necessarily need a scorer for that top line RW spot, we need someone who is really effective when it comes to recovering loose pucks and forechecks well. I think Wheeler has been pretty effective off the rush but when that isn’t available that
line needs to be able to create off the cycle and I don’t know if they can.

As for the Miller-Trouba pairing I agree with that. The easy fix is Miller with Fox and Gustafsson with Trouba but then Lindgren has to play with Schneider which wont work.

 

[Machinehead]

Sure, but on what planet you have to live to imagine he would bring an upgrade?

Selling teams would be interested in him as part of a package.

He's still an NHL player which is better than two-thirds of draft picks.

 

[duhmetreE]

Ep isn't available and won't be as Vancouver is actually a playoff team. It also doesn't work capwise as he is going to get way more than Lindholm. EP probably signs for 11 millionish.

Lindholm is better than Tro and its really not close. He may not be as gritty as Tro but he will score more points. I would try to get him for 7 mill a year on a new deal. I am not even sure he signs that buy he is worth every penny.

EP is undecided on his future. Let's wait and see if Vancouver collapses or has an early exit

Lindholm and Trocheck have similar production. I don't know how you deem it 'not really close'... unless you're basing it on Lindholms career year with Gaudreau and Tkachuk... that's not his normal production Lindholm handcuffs us at 7M

If we're trading for a 3C/ possible RWer, I'd go after Gourde.

 

[LOFIN]

Selling teams would be interested in him as part of a package.

He's still an NHL player which is better than two-thirds of draft picks.

I agree, as part of a package maybe. But he himself is not bringing in a ton of value at this point. The Rangers are better off hoping he snaps out of it.

What happens during the summer, is a completely different story though.

 

[bhamill]

If trading Kakko brings in an upgrade for this season then you do it. 1. Hes not that good in the first place 2. The Rangers actually look like they are far more legit than they have been since the cup run in 13-14. This is a team that has a real chance of winning the cup. Holding onto Kakko just because he’s young when there’s a potential opportunity to make this team better is foolish.

I think it’s the potential for it to make us worse in the long run that worries people about trading KK. He’s already showed he can score 40 EV points (at 21-22) while being excellent defensively, and despite a terrible 19 game start, has the potential to score far more. So unless you’ve got a target that is at LEAST that good, and young, it does NOT make the team better. At least not beyond the duration of a slump and probably is a terrible trade long term. So who is trading that sort of value to us for KK with his awful start? I’m interested..

 

[Machinehead]

I agree, as part of a package maybe. But he himself is not bringing in a ton of value at this point. The Rangers are better off hoping he snaps out of it.

What happens during the summer, is a completely different story though.

Well, we're not trading Kakko one-for-one for a better player. That was implied.

I think he's a good trade candidate. He has some value but he's not an irreplaceable part of our lineup.

 

[B17 Apricots]

There really aren't many holes in this lineup. If Wheeler/Kakko don't start showing more I'd be looking for a cheap skilled forward to play with Kreider and Zibanejad. The standings are really wacky right now so we'll see who winds up a seller further down the road.

Barabanov or Duclair from San Jose are interesting. Vatrano in Anaheim.

The Sens are tied for last in the conference. On paper their team is much, much better than their record. They also have the least amount of games played. A win streak puts them right back in the picture. If they continue to struggle though there's some interesting players there. Kubalík shouldn't cost much. Obviously Tarasenko is there. The intriguing option would be Mathieu Joseph. Fast 2-way player, kills penalties. His game should translate well to the playoffs. He was thought to be a potential cap dump in the beginning of the year to make room to re-sign Shane Pinto. Joseph has since overtaken Batherson in their top 6 with 15 points in 16 games.

Same goes for the Flames. On paper they should be a really solid team. They just continue to underperform. If they miss the playoffs I'd be asking about Dubé.

If Nashville doesn't re-sign Tommy Novak he'd be a great option.

There isn't too much room for Drury to make moves this year, I liked the little moves of giving up late picks for guys like Vatrano and Motte. Big time help for depth for very, very little. If he's looking to give up more than that hopefully it's for players that we could realistically keep past a pure rental. If Mathieu Joseph maintains this play he's on a sweetheart deal, 2.95mil for 2.5 more years. Vatranos in a similar boat. Dubé's an RFA that shouldn't get a big raise

 

[DanielBrassard]

I think it’s the potential for it to make us worse in the long run that worries people about trading KK. He’s already showed he can score 40 EV points (at 21-22) while being excellent defensively, and despite a terrible 19 game start, has the potential to score far more. So unless you’ve got a target that is at LEAST that good, and young, it does NOT make the team better. At least not beyond the duration of a slump and probably is a terrible trade long term. So who is trading that sort of value to us for KK with his awful start? I’m interested..

I’m not too worried about Kakko long term so if you can trade him for an upgrade to help this season that is more important than keeping a guy who has 2 years of control left and his upside is probably what he was last season.

 

[LOFIN]

Well, we're not trading Kakko one-for-one for a better player. That was implied.

I think he's a good trade candidate. He has some value but he's not an irreplaceable part of our lineup.

Yeah well who is? Maybe Panarin?

Shesterkin, sit down. Quick still has it. Has anyone been missing Fox? 8-1-1 since his injury. As of right now, we can afford the luxury of time.

 

[bhamill]

Well, we're not trading Kakko one-for-one for a better player. That was implied.

I think he's a good trade candidate. He has some value but he's not an irreplaceable part of our lineup.

Whether it’s one for one or part of a package we’d still be selling low on him, not getting value. So why? Again I’m obviously not saying he’s untouchable, but we’ve seen what he did last year and I would not trade this still 22 year old player for less value than a 40 (EV) point defensively responsible forward.

Im getting total deja vu listening to the Kakko talk now after the Laf talk just weeks ago…

 

[Machinehead]

I think it’s the potential for it to make us worse in the long run that worries people about trading KK. He’s already showed he can score 40 EV points (at 21-22) while being excellent defensively, and despite a terrible 19 game start, has the potential to score far more. So unless you’ve got a target that is at LEAST that good, and young, it does NOT make the team better. At least not beyond the duration of a slump and probably is a terrible trade long term. So who is trading that sort of value to us for KK with his awful start? I’m interested..

Asking for a specific scenario is getting into nothing but speculation, but here's a scenario.

Nick Schmaltz has two years left after this one. The Coyotes aren't there yet. His contract is very heavy on bonuses which we can pay no problem. He's fantastic at even strength and can play center in a pinch.

If the Coyotes decide he's not likely to extend and he becomes available, I move Kakko and a first for him with zero hesitation.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Asking for a specific scenario is getting into nothing but speculation, but here's a scenario.

Nick Schmaltz has two years left after this one. The Coyotes aren't there yet. His contract is very heavy on bonuses which we can pay no problem. He's fantastic at even strength and can play center in a pinch.

If the Coyotes decide he's not likely to extend and he becomes available, I move Kakko and a first for him with zero hesitation.

I'd like to keep the first but if we get Schmaltz for 3 runs then who cares? That'd be worth it. Wonder if Arizona would do it. Exactly the type of player and term that we should be looking for.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Nice.

 

[Machinehead]

It also depends on what you're bringing back.

For a haul like Schmaltz, Kakko is on the table. For a legit top line RW, he's on the table.

If you want to play moneypuck, there probably isn't a need to move Kakko.

The Rangers had a moneypuck deadline in 2022 and even though I still think Vatrano sucks at everything but shooting, it was still more effective than brining in two huge names.

 

[bhamill]

I’m not too worried about Kakko long term so if you can trade him for an upgrade to help this season that is more important than keeping a guy who has 2 years of control left and his upside is probably what he was last season.

That’s your prerogative. But assuming a player’s upside is what he did at 21-22 in a limited opportunity, is quite a pessimistic leap. Players generally don’t peak till after 24 or so, especially “power” type forwards. Finesse guys maybe a bit earlier. And if we sign him for more than 2 years after this season, we obviously have more than 2 yeas control. His QO is 2.4 mil this off season. I think it would be extremely foolish to sell low on him.

 

[McRanger92]

Kreider-Mika-Wheeler
Panarin-Trocheck-Laf
Cuylle-Chytil-Kakko
Vesey-Goodrow-Pitlick
Bonino/Othmann
Fox-Lindgren
Trouba-Miller
Schneider-Gus
Jones

I’m way down on Kakko but if that’s the Rangers playoff roster, no trades need to be made. Maybe another defenseman who can defend. I like Seeler or Walker from Philly. Injuries will dictate if they need to make a bigger move but if they can stay intact, we can win it all with the pieces we have.

 

[bhamill]

It also depends on what you're bringing back.

For a haul like Schmaltz, Kakko is on the table. For a legit top line RW, he's on the table.

If you want to play moneypuck, there probably isn't a need to move Kakko.

The Rangers had a moneypuck deadline in 2022 and even though I still think Vatrano sucks at everything but shooting, it was still more effective than brining in two huge names.

Sure. It ALL hinges on what we get back. I’m just saying that trading him now is selling low, and unless it’s a move that makes us a heavy favorite to win it all this year, selling low is a losing move. I’m sure not trying to argue that he is untouchable. Haha

 

[rangersfansince08]

Schmaltz would be a really good acquisition. Three runs with him would be huge. Could shift Chytil to RW

 

[Machinehead]

Sure. It ALL hinges on what we get back. I’m just saying that trading him now is selling low, and unless it’s a move that makes us a heavy favorite to win it all this year, selling low is a losing move. I’m sure not trying to argue that he is untouchable. Haha

I think selling high or low is a bit overstated a lot of the time.

Front offices are aware that streaks exist, they have five years of data on Kakko, and he probably is what he is.

Selling low would be if Kakko had a huge breakout and then sucked the following year. As it stands, he's had 3 points in 19 games before. He'll get hot eventually and probably end up with 35. That's Kaapo Kakko.

 

[rangersfansince08]

I think selling high or low is a bit overstated a lot of the time.

Front offices are aware that streaks exist, they have five years of data on Kakko, and he probably is what he is.

Selling low would be if Kakko had a huge breakout and then sucked the following year. As it stands, he's had 3 points in 19 games before. He'll get hot eventually and probably end up with 35. That's Kaapo Kakko.

I still think Chytil would be a decent RW if we trade Crapo Caka

Kreider-Zibby-Wheeler
Panarin-Trochek-Laf
Cuylle-Schmaltz-Chytil

 

[QJL]

It's been a rough stretch of 258 games for Kakko.

He was good in the playoffs in 21-22.

He finished last season with 32 points in 55 games.

He has had good stretches.