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Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part VII: Return of Beaver Brad

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Kovalev27 said:
Think some are missing my point. We need Holden as the 7th. Not as a starter. I 100 percent have De Angelo making team playing 3rd right d and power play 2. Nothing from last season would give any reason to believe he can't be an everyday nhler.
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well that's the thing, both ADA and Holden aren't going to be on the team come opening night. Beregalov has an out if they try to send him to the AHL, so unless he is absolutely horrendous/his agent talks him into into going to the AHL, he'll be here.

As it stands now, purely by the numbers and contracts, ADA will start in Hartford. May not be the worst thing for him in the long run, hes only 21.
 
I love how Traverse has become the end-all-be-all for determining a player's NHL worth :laugh:
 
Why would DeAngelo start in Hartford? Kid proved he should be in the NHL last year. He's way ahead of these other kids in that sense.

Bereglazov is not some hot shot prospect ala buchnevich. This is a 23 year old undrafted stay at home dmen who handles the puck like Marc Staal. If he goes back he goes back I doubt we'd care all that much. He's not going to stay here if better players are available. They aren't going to put DeAngelo in Hartford if he plays the way he should no doubt play just to keep this guy around.

I will say I too like Kampfer no problem with him as a 7th. Although Holden has the ability to play both sides.

Listen I can't stand Holden he was horrific for us in the playoffs. But he's a better player than this Russian kid from what I've seen so far by a country mile.
 
rangers1314 said:
well that's the thing, both ADA and Holden aren't going to be on the team come opening night. Beregalov has an out if they try to send him to the AHL, so unless he is absolutely horrendous/his agent talks him into into going to the AHL, he'll be here.

As it stands now, purely by the numbers and contracts, ADA will start in Hartford. May not be the worst thing for him in the long run, hes only 21.
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We have to keep our best players. If AD can defend (big if) than he will be here. Im so impressed with his wheels. If Bear is a NHL player than by all means keep him but if he isn't then send him down regardless of outclause.
 
Kovalev27 said:
We no longer have the luxury of trading Holden. At least not until we see what we've got in Ryan Graves who by all accounts has same issues mcilrath has in his pivots.

Bereglazov should have just scared everyone straight. Need to hang on to Holden for now.
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Pavel Buchnevich said:
Graves is nothing like McIlrath. He skates well for a player his size. No reason to hold onto Holden. Whether you are right about Bereglazov or not, we also have DeAngelo, Graves, Pionk, tons of depth, these guys are going to need a chance. It'll either come from Staal or Holden leaving, one makes a lot more than the other, so the decision is made for itself.
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jas said:
Not really. Holden is still redundant. Now if both DeAngelo and Pionk crap the bed, too, then Holden becomes important. But, until that happens, Holden is still the 7th Dman.
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Raspewtin said:
There'd need to be a very impressive amount of bed-******** to make Holden necessary.

And I say that as someone who likes Holden.
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Kovalev27 said:
Think some are missing my point. We need Holden as the 7th. Not as a starter. I 100 percent have De Angelo making team playing 3rd right d and power play 2. Nothing from last season would give any reason to believe he can't be an everyday nhler.
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need to give the kids a chance, ef the reasonable growing pains
nothing vs him, Holden is taking up a slot.
move on
 
Kovalev27 said:
Why would DeAngelo start in Hartford? Kid proved he should be in the NHL last year. He's way ahead of these other kids in that sense.

Bereglazov is not some hot shot prospect ala buchnevich. This is a 23 year old undrafted stay at home dmen who handles the puck like Marc Staal. If he goes back he goes back I doubt we'd care all that much. He's not going to stay here if better players are available. They aren't going to put DeAngelo in Hartford if he plays the way he should no doubt play just to keep this guy around.

I will say I too like Kampfer no problem with him as a 7th. Although Holden has the ability to play both sides.

Listen I can't stand Holden he was horrific for us in the playoffs. But he's a better player than this Russian kid from what I've seen so far by a country mile.
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Ah yes, the annual ritual of drawing too strong of a conclusion from the TCT.
 
Pavel Buchnevich said:
It would be better off if they didn't televise these games. Doesn't do anyone much good.
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It's not even that I'm happy with how our kids played, I'm pretty disappointed honestly. I just think it's crazy to make these crazy statements about kids based on 4 games. This tournament doesn't completely negate Bereglazov being a top defender from the KHL, or make a kid like Danny Kristo NHL-ready. Training camp is what matter when the stakes are higher, the players are better, and jobs are literally on the line.
 
Holden helps TOR a lot... I would make them pay a premium for that.

2nd Round Pick + Leivo + Conditional.

I like Leivo a lot... if he's waiver bait, you claim him.

TOR also has Altonen... who I think can play this year. Their forward group is stacked, and they will need help on defense.

The dance partner I'm partial to is LA... they have pressure to make the playoffs, they have forward depth... but they also have guys in their farm that may still be tweeners for them until Jan-Feb. That's a recipe for a trade.

For those that are not in the know, teams measure until Thanksgiving. If a team is in a playoff spot by US Thanksgiving, then they will most likely make the playoffs at the end of the year.

The bubble teams are the ones that make trades... the last few years those teams that deals had success moving forward since they used the early season to see what holes they had. Sometimes that success didn't come until the season after.

IMO the Rangers identity dictates they need a speed guy... while the holes dictate they need some utility out of that player...

I think the Rangers can legitimately contend with PIT this year with 2 smart adds.

Kreider-Zib-Buch
Nash-Hayes-Zucc
Vesey-Miller-XXX
Grabner-Andy-Fast
Veteran 4th line Center

McD-Smith
Skjei-Shattenkirk
Staal-ADA
Bear/Pionk/Kampfer

Trade Holden for a 23-24 year old RH-C/RW with 15-15 upside (that's $2M-$2.5M player)
Pick up a player that's a Veteran 4th liner on waivers/conditional pick

Go to War.
 
Regarding Graves...

He needs to fill out... until he doesn't he won't be effective in the NHL.

He's a much better skater than McIlrath, and better with the puck... but he doesn't have the 4-way laterals... Neither does Marc Staal... but ones an NHLer.

Graves needs the strength in his upper body to win battles... IMO that may be a year away with him.

Day needs reps and hockey smarts... he's not the sharpest tool in the shed if you know what I mean... and he needs to drop 20 LBS and skate at 205 with better conditioning.

He's maybe 3-4 years away.

ADA and Pionk will play this year.
 
I'm surprised so many of u think this tournament means nothing when literally every major scout is there watching. It's a great indicator of who is going to be something and who isn't. When we had Dubinsky and that group there winning the tournament we sure enough had those guys come up and lead a great charge for us for years.

My guess is because we were absolutely awful people here are being defensive and shrugging off a 20 years a running tournament that means plenty to kids looking to get noticed right before camp.

If we had a great tourney the attitude would be very different here I'm sure
 
BTW Pens will trade to fill their holes.

Rutherford isn't afraid of making a move to try and keep winning.

I mentioned Sheahan is a low buy a week ago to bail out DET... Friedman just reported that's what the Pen's are aiming to do.
 
Kovalev27 said:
I'm surprised so many of u think this tournament means nothing when literally every major scout is there watching. It's a great indicator of who is going to be something and who isn't. When we had Dubinsky and that group there winning the tournament we sure enough had those guys come up and lead a great charge for us for years.

My guess is because we were absolutely awful people here are being defensive and shrugging off a 20 years a running tournament that means plenty to kids looking to get noticed right before camp.

If we had a great tourney the attitude would be very different here I'm sure
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Nope. Tournament is still nothing but a small sample size and worth major grains of salt, no matter the outcome.

And so what if scouts are there? I'm fairly confident that they have watched these prospects a heck of a lot more and aren't just using these four games as make or break analysis for each player.
 
Kovalev27 said:
I'm surprised so many of u think this tournament means nothing when literally every major scout is there watching. It's a great indicator of who is going to be something and who isn't. When we had Dubinsky and that group there winning the tournament we sure enough had those guys come up and lead a great charge for us for years.

My guess is because we were absolutely awful people here are being defensive and shrugging off a 20 years a running tournament that means plenty to kids looking to get noticed right before camp.

If we had a great tourney the attitude would be very different here I'm sure
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It depends... the team that has the most pro ready guys tends to win. The Rangers have been barren for so long that it's been dismissed, but it is a good barometer for the 2-3 players that may play this year.

I think the pre-season matters more in terms of evaluation... I used to take trips to HFD in OCT & NOV to scout out which would be NHL contributors... but if the team is garbage... it is harder to watch.
 
Kovalev27 said:
I'm surprised so many of u think this tournament means nothing when literally every major scout is there watching. It's a great indicator of who is going to be something and who isn't. When we had Dubinsky and that group there winning the tournament we sure enough had those guys come up and lead a great charge for us for years.

My guess is because we were absolutely awful people here are being defensive and shrugging off a 20 years a running tournament that means plenty to kids looking to get noticed right before camp.

If we had a great tourney the attitude would be very different here I'm sure
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I don't think it means nothing. I just think that it's simply the beginning of an evaluation process and because of that, there are no conclusions to be drawn at this stage of things.
 
I think that guys who are penciled in to NHL lineups should show they can handle traverse City fairly well otherwise it's a pretty good barometer that they aren't ready.

I remember that 2007 team and u knew you had some legit nhlers on that team. I remember Stepan and mcdonagh in what 2010? looking head and shoulders better than anyone.

And I remember jimmy vesey coming in the same age as bereglazov without one game of pro experience and absolutely dominating last year. Made it look easy.

They left no doubts heading into camp that they were ready to have strong showings.

Andersson? No way can I see him making that much of a leap in the next 10 to 14 days.

Bereglazov definitely no way

I think it's a highly regarded tournament for a reason guys
 
Also, for every player that looked great at TCT, there's one that didn't who still managed to make the team. Kevin Hayes springs to mind.
 
Kovalev27 said:
That's really silly to say
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No it isn't. Traverse City isn't the only tournament of its type. There are others this year in Buffalo, Toronto, Vancouver, and San Jose. There was supposed to be one in Florida. 27 of 31 teams participated, or were scheduled to participate, in prospect tournaments. Traverse it the largest and I believe the oldest, but in terms of the quality of the tournament, there's nothing special about it.
 
Tawnos said:
Also, for every player that looked great at TCT, there's one that didn't who still managed to make the team. Kevin Hayes springs to mind.
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yeah, esp. in the rangers' case with so little talent up front, the real test for many of these guys is how they can play with talent around them. we don't draft high enough for do-it-yourself types. but there's a difference btw a guy with a good motor and hustle who can cause some havoc in TCT and another guy who is looking to make plays but has nobody making reads off themâ€â€and it seems to me that the latter is more often a successful pro than the former. Like, out of ryan bourque vs jesper fast, though the former might 'look' better at this kind of tournament.
 
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