Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIII

[Clark Kellogg]

If the current environment drags on into the pre 2021/2022 season (Not wishing for this.) there could bring on a paradigm where owners who can’t or won’t afford to bleed cash tell their General Managers to get closer to the floor rather than the Cap Max limit at any cost. I believe there is wisdom in the thinking of those in the camp who don’t want to overspend on resigning Fast and not to commit to too many long term deals on our RFA group or any upcoming UFAs this 2020/21 season. Where there is Chaos there is opportunity.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Yeah we have a ton of assets, best thing to do now is nothing crazy.

- Sign Strome (1-2 yrs) and ADA (3-4 yrs, no clauses!)
- Bridge Georgie and Lemmy
- buy out Hank and Staal (I forget, does CBA allow for 2 buy outs?)
- upgrade LD cheaply as a short term solution

sucks to burn another year on ELCs but we need another season to evaluate young players, let contracts expire, get through exp draft, and have dead space burn off. Ice a competitive team in the meanwhile. Next Off season we’re gonna be in Great position to solve Roster holes with essentially the same group of assets and tons of space and the knowledge of which young guys can move up. Next year we open a new window.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Yeah we have a ton of assets, best thing to do now is nothing crazy.

- Sign Strome (1-2 yrs) and ADA (3-4 yrs, no clauses!)
- Bridge Georgie and Lemmy
- buy out Hank and Staal (I forget, does CBA allow for 2 buy outs?)
- upgrade LD cheaply as a short term solution

sucks to burn another year on ELCs but we need another season to evaluate young players, let contracts expire, get through exp draft, and have dead space burn off. Ice a competitive team in the meanwhile. Next Off season we’re gonna be in Great position to solve Roster holes with essentially the same group of assets and tons of space and the knowledge of which young guys can move up. Next year we open a new window.

I with you on everything expect the buyouts. Is there any benefits or consequences for the 2021/22 season if we buyout Lundqvist, Staal or Smith this season?

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Let's not kid ourselves, no one is taking Hank. Salary retained or not

He's either retiring or staying here one more year.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I with you on everything expect the buyouts. Is there any benefits or consequences for the 2021/22 season if we buyout Lundqvist, Staal or Smith this season?

I can’t make the numbers work with our RFAs unless we buy out someone, somebodys

 

[Leetch3]

I with you on everything expect the buyouts. Is there any benefits or consequences for the 2021/22 season if we buyout Lundqvist, Staal or Smith this season?

there would be dead cap space in 21-22 for any of these buyouts...Hank would be $1.5 mil, Staal would be just over $1 mil and Smith would be $783k

buyouts are never ideal and should always be the last resort because you never want dead cap space if you can avoid it. but none of the dead space for any of those 3 is so crazy that it takes it off the table. but i'd rather bite the bullet and ride out their final year and get a clean break given those options...but the question is what impacts it has on other options. for example I'm not going to not lockup deangelo long term to avoid a small bit of dead space for 1 year if it comes down to that.

 

[kovazub94]

there would be dead cap space in 21-22 for any of these buyouts...Hank would be $1.5 mil, Staal would be just over $1 mil and Smith would be $783k

buyouts are never ideal and should always be the last resort because you never want dead cap space if you can avoid it. but none of the dead space for any of those 3 is so crazy that it takes it off the table. but i'd rather bite the bullet and ride out their final year and get a clean break given those options...but the question is what impacts it has on other options. for example I'm not going to not lockup deangelo long term to avoid a small bit of dead space for 1 year if it comes down to that.

Also need to keep in mind that roster replacements for bought out players will be on their ELC or, maybe, bridge deals (in case of Hank) so the combined roster spot cost (player + buyout) will not be prohibitive.

 

[jay from jersey]

Yeah. I don’t mind the deal and I think the “floor” for the deal isn’t that low; it’s a fairly safe bet, as these things go. I wouldn’t have fretted has they decided to trade CK, either, though. I think, on the other hand, the next Mika deal is going to be high ceiling/low floor, due to the injury question. I think he needs a couple heathy years going forward. Quietly, something worth watching. At least, I am, if I’m the front office.

Completely agree with you on the Mika front. His injury history and age will def affect his next contract. Especially if barkov is hell bent on going UFA. Gorton will show up in Florida with a blank check

 

[Leetch3]

Also need to keep in mind that roster replacements for bought out players will be on their ELC or, maybe, bridge deals (in case of Hank) so the combined roster spot cost (player + buyout) will not be prohibitive.

on the flipside of that though the $3 mil that you'd save from buying out hank a good chunk (maybe $2 mil?) would go to resigning georgiev. so you really aren't freeing up much space elsewhere compared to trading georgiev and riding out hank's last year. so there are definitely several factors to consider...

my feeling on all buyouts is the same...buyouts are bad and should be avoided if you can. but sometimes they are necessary and the least bad option.

 

[kovazub94]

on the flipside of that though the $3 mil that you'd save from buying out hank a good chunk (maybe $2 mil?) would go to resigning georgiev. so you really aren't freeing up much space elsewhere compared to trading georgiev and riding out hank's last year. so there are definitely several factors to consider...

my feeling on all buyouts is the same...buyouts are bad and should be avoided if you can. but sometimes they are necessary and the least bad option.

I just think Hank is completely done - in isolation or in comparison to Georgiev - and my point was the Rangers are not adding the buyout cost on Hanks contract to, say Allen’s type contract.

Otherwise, I can’t see how anyone would argue that buyout is the last resort option when it comes to cap management.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Got to be careful with someone like Sakic. You might be able to pick off someone like Nieto but the big game he's going to want too much for.

As far as the Canes I think the thing with Fox started that whole ball rolling. The Canes were between a rock and a hard place with Fox (who was going to walk away and sign with the Rangers anyway) and though the Rangers didn't give them commensurate value for Fox we really didn't take advantage--2 2nd rounders for a 3rd round college kid who hadn't yet played an NHL game.

As Nieto's #1 fan he is very very available as a UFA. He'd be a very solid pickup only 28 when the season begins. 22-31 point range bottom 6er. Speed and PK. probably like $2.95 for three years is where I'd go.

 

[JimmyG89]

If we're buying anyone out, it would be Staal. You have a large portion of the prospect pool that is left handed D. They're going to need to play NHL minutes soon. We already know Staal cannot fill those minutes.

At least Hank can play in 30 games and you'll get a decent performance from him. And Georgiev has legit value.

The positions are just so different too. Finding a solid backup goalie isn't too difficult a task. Cash in on Georgiev's value and let Hank ride it out. Move out Staal and let Miller/Hajek/Robertson have a go at filling out the defense. Smith can be the vet defender on the team.

 

[gravey9]

Chicago I would keep an eye on for the draft and with Georgiev.

In fairness, that is one of the first times someone has mentioned a team for Georgy that actually makes sense. All these rumors of him going to a contender or near contender I don't buy. Contenders view Georgy as a backup (possible 50/50 split guy) because he has no track record in big games and playoffs. So it's less likely they would meet the asking price. And now esp with the amount of vet goalies hitting the market. In reality there are not many landing spots.

Edge -- are there any realistic chances the Rangers could move up to in the draft with that #22? Say to Buff or Edm or Carolina?

There are a few players higher in the draft that I think the Rangers would like more than what's likely avail at 22. Specifically Amirov. And I know it's another D but I also like Sanderson as I think he could bring some serious stability to the left side one day and they say he is closer to the NHL than other prospects.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Buy outs suck (esp with a HOF player) and are an admittance of asset manage,ent failure but I don’t see how (without trades) we are gonna fit our RFAs under the flat cap if we don’t do buyouts. Assuming: Georgie 1.8, Lemmy 1.5, Strome 5, ADA 6, DiG 700k

these are prob on the low end as it is. georgies 1.8 does become redundant if we keep Hank.

 

[Trxjw]

Calgary and Rangers have had quite a bit of talks. I’d be surprised if they didn’t at least check-in with each other again.

I’d keep an eye on Buffalo and Toronto.

Wonder if Toronto would be interested in Lemieux since they're likely not bringing back Clifford. I'm still really interested in Dermott.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

In fairness, that is one of the first times someone has mentioned a team for Georgy that actually makes sense. All these rumors of him going to a contender or near contender I don't buy. Contenders view Georgy as a backup (possible 50/50 split guy) because he has no track record in big games and playoffs. So it's less likely they would meet the asking price. And now esp with the amount of vet goalies hitting the market. In reality there are not many landing spots.

Edge -- are there any realistic chances the Rangers could move up to in the draft with that #22? Say to Buff or Edm or Carolina?

There are a few players higher in the draft that I think the Rangers would like more than what's likely avail at 22. Specifically Amirov. And I know it's another D but I also like Sanderson as I think he could bring some serious stability to the left side one day and they say he is closer to the NHL than other prospects.

Agree, something around Koekkek maybe

 

[Edge]

In fairness, that is one of the first times someone has mentioned a team for Georgy that actually makes sense. All these rumors of him going to a contender or near contender I don't buy. Contenders view Georgy as a backup (possible 50/50 split guy) because he has no track record in big games and playoffs. So it's less likely they would meet the asking price. And now esp with the amount of vet goalies hitting the market. In reality there are not many landing spots.

Edge -- are there any realistic chances the Rangers could move up to in the draft with that #22? Say to Buff or Edm or Carolina?

There are a few players higher in the draft that I think the Rangers would like more than what's likely avail at 22. Specifically Amirov. And I know it's another D but I also like Sanderson as I think he could bring some serious stability to the left side one day and they say he is closer to the NHL than other prospects.

I think Georgiev is a fit for a team that is willing to see if they have a potential started on their hands. I don't think that will be the Rangers with Shesterkin. I feel that barring any unusual circumstances, Georgiev's value will only decrease here.

Amirov is a player the Rangers should theoretically like, and he has been mentioned before. As for trading up, I think Buffalo, Edmonton and Carolina are out of range without a substantially bigger deal. I don't think the Rangers covet anyone quite on that level that they would expand the deal enough to cover the gap.

 

[Edge]

Wonder if Toronto would be interested in Lemieux since they're likely not bringing back Clifford. I'm still really interested in Dermott.

I think Lemieux is a guy who is going to have more than a few nibbles from other teams.

Unfortunately, I think he'd also potentially be the cost if the Rangers wanted to move up in the draft.

I think he and Georgiev are candidates for that type of discussion, if not targets for other teams.

 

[gravey9]

I think Georgiev is a fit for a team that is willing to see if they have a potential started on their hands. I don't think that will be the Rangers with Shesterkin. I feel that barring any unusual circumstances, Georgiev's value will only decrease here.

Amirov is a player the Rangers should theoretically like, and he has been mentioned before. As for trading up, I think Buffalo, Edmonton and Carolina are out of range without a substantially bigger deal. I don't think the Rangers covet anyone quite on that level that they would expand the deal enough to cover the gap.

That makes sense. I wonder if Buch could be used to trade with Buff and Edm but that would be an awful lot to give up for a lottery ticket.

 

[gravey9]

I think Lemieux is a guy who is going to have more than a few nibbles from other teams.

Unfortunately, I think he'd also potentially be the cost if the Rangers wanted to move up in the draft.

I think he and Georgiev are candidates for that type of discussion, if not targets for other teams.

This answers my question...

 

[Edge]

That makes sense. I wonder if Buch could be used to trade with Buff and Edm but that would be an awful lot to give up for a lottery ticket.

I just don't see it as the Rangers first choice. I think they'd move him for a roster player if they decide to move him.

 

[Trxjw]

I think Lemieux is a guy who is going to have more than a few nibbles from other teams.

Unfortunately, I think he'd also potentially be the cost if the Rangers wanted to move up in the draft.

I think he and Georgiev are candidates for that type of discussion, if not targets for other teams.

Those two guys in particular seem like players who fans are really high on but could also be the type that the Rangers see as having a potentially diminishing return if you hang on for too long. Hard to see Georgiev building up more value backing up Igor or Lemmy taking a big step forward while skating behind Panarin, Kreider, and Lafreniere on the left-side.

 

[Edge]

Those two guys in particular seem like players who fans are really high on but could also be the type that the Rangers see as having a potentially diminishing return if you hang on for too long. Hard to see Georgiev building up more value backing up Igor or Lemmy taking a big step forward while skating behind Panarin, Kreider, and Lafreniere on the left-side.

The challenge for Lemieux will also be his contract. He really didn't take a step forward offensively, and he's probably looking for a deal around $1.2 million plus.

He's in a weird spot in the sense that he's a capable fourth liner, with a shot to be a valuable third liner, but how much are you going to play for that right now.

I firmly believe the Rangers would prefer to hang onto him, it just might be the cost of doing business.

 

[Trxjw]

The challenge for Lemieux will also be his contract. He really didn't take a step forward offensively, and he's probably looking for a deal around $1.2 million plus.

He's in a weird spot in the sense that he's a capable fourth liner, with a shot to be a valuable third liner, but how much are you going to play for that right now.

I firmly believe the Rangers would prefer to hang onto him, it just might be the cost of doing business.

Just hard to see a path forward for him to take that next step with the depth we're poised to have. On the flip side, I can absolutely see why the team would want to keep him in the fold. Takes a lot of bite out of the lineup if you don't replace him somehow.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Didn't Lemieux play some RW along the way?