Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part LIII

[Chytilmania]

That's alright. I don't mind being hated.

Woah is when you're trying to get a horse to stop.

Some people say whoa when they watch Strome defend

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Connor Hellebuyck, the best goalie in the NHL this season.

Pionk was getting walked every night defensively.

Not an accurate statement at all. Pretty much everyone in Winnipeg is happy with Pionk.

 

[effen]

As far as the Canes I think the thing with Fox started that whole ball rolling. The Canes were between a rock and a hard place with Fox (who was going to walk away and sign with the Rangers anyway) and though the Rangers didn't give them commensurate value for Fox we really didn't take advantage--2 2nd rounders for a 3rd round college kid who hadn't yet played an NHL game.

People get way too caught up on being zero sum on trades with clubs and ignoring the player aspect. Fox probably wanted to sign here, but trading FOR him is a very clear sign the Rangers were committing to him before he committed to the Rangers and that's gonna count for more than you'd think.

Same with Trouba.

It's be funny if not holding the Canes feet to the fire for the bare minimum somewhat facilitated the Gauthier and Skjei trades though.

 

[eco's bones]

People get way too caught up on being zero sum on trades with clubs and ignoring the player aspect. Fox probably wanted to sign here, but trading FOR him is a very clear sign the Rangers were committing to him before he committed to the Rangers and that's gonna count for more than you'd think.

Same with Trouba.

It's be funny if not holding the Canes feet to the fire for the bare minimum somewhat facilitated the Gauthier and Skjei trades though.

Fox had told the Canes he wasn't going to sign with them--that if necessary he would play his senior year at Harvard and then wait until August to become a free agent. It was pretty clear that he wanted to sign with the Rangers which also killed the Canes options of dealing him anywhere else. Anywhere else would have wanted some certainty that Fox would play for them and the Rangers were the only certainty around. Really the Rangers were the only one team at that point that the Canes could have traded him to. The Rangers had the Canes over the barrel with nowhere to go but the Rangers didn't really screw the Canes at all. Two 2nd's to me was pretty damn fair for a guy who had never played an NHL game and at that point wasn't a lock to make the Rangers team---was a really fine College d-man with a bright future but wasn't exactly Quinn Hughes or Cale Makar.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Got to be careful with someone like Sakic. You might be able to pick off someone like Nieto but the big game he's going to want too much for.

As far as the Canes I think the thing with Fox started that whole ball rolling. The Canes were between a rock and a hard place with Fox (who was going to walk away and sign with the Rangers anyway) and though the Rangers didn't give them commensurate value for Fox we really didn't take advantage--2 2nd rounders for a 3rd round college kid who hadn't yet played an NHL game.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'll just to offer this alternative perspective.

Cheveldeyoff had this reputation at one point too. Stingy on trades, painfully patient, willing to wait until things played out exactly how he wanted it to. But once that team transformed into contention, his trades got riskier. He gave up a little more than he probably had too. He gambled for short term gains.

So until Sakic gets careless, I agree that you approach with caution. But I do wonder if the pressure starts to build there. He might start trading away futures. At some point you have to alter the combination in the room, he saw that first hand as a player.

 

[eco's bones]

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'll just to offer this alternative perspective.

Cheveldeyoff had this reputation at one point too. Stingy on trades, painfully patient, willing to wait until things played out exactly how he wanted it to. But once that team transformed into contention, his trades got riskier. He gave up a little more than he probably had too. He gambled for short term gains.

So until Sakic gets careless, I agree that you approach with caution. But I do wonder if the pressure starts to build there. He might start trading away futures. At some point you have to alter the combination in the room, he saw that first hand as a player.

I think there is near 0 chance that the Avalanche will move someone like Byram. Connor Timmins--another RD possibly but do we need another RD? Kaut and Bowers have been so-so at the AHL level--might just need to develop a bit more and get a little stronger. The really interesting prospect they have is Alex Newhook and after that maybe the young Finnish goalie Annunen.

I think Colorado has some of the same issues we have--just not as bad. They're a little thin though when it comes to muckers and grinders and depth defensemen. The injuries in the series against Dallas though played very much into their losing the series.

 

[Avery16]

 

[wafflepadsave]

Calgary and Rangers have had quite a bit of talks. I’d be surprised if they didn’t at least check-in with each other again.

I’d keep an eye on Buffalo and Toronto.

I would think that #22 pick is going to get some calls now that it is set. Hope they have a list of entry level players who fit in to the plan.

 

[wafflepadsave]

22nd OA + 1st 2021 + ______.

<Insert top-10 pick, Or 2C, or 2LD with potential>.

Buch is the odd man out imo. Or ADA.

They both could be gone before next season. But, I think Gorton makes one big move this offseason and it’ll be for a young player that makes us better now and potentially in the future.

When are you scheduled to meet with Gorton? Going separately or is @bobbop going with you? And I’m serious.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

They really need to mend this fence.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

As for this summer - I’d keep an eye on Calgary, Buffalo and Toronto as teams the Rangers might continue chatting with.

Possibly Chicago and Colorado as well.

Thanks, as always, for the info. Interesting list of clubs, as on the surface I don't necessarily see good fits (aside from Bufflalo and Calgary).

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'll just to offer this alternative perspective.

Cheveldeyoff had this reputation at one point too. Stingy on trades, painfully patient, willing to wait until things played out exactly how he wanted it to. But once that team transformed into contention, his trades got riskier. He gave up a little more than he probably had too. He gambled for short term gains.

So until Sakic gets careless, I agree that you approach with caution. But I do wonder if the pressure starts to build there. He might start trading away futures. At some point you have to alter the combination in the room, he saw that first hand as a player.

I’m with you here.

Sakic needs to win while the 2nd best player in the world is still making a paltry sum of 6 mill plus. They haven’t been passed the second round with this group yet. Injuries certainly hurt them but at what point do they make their treasure trove of assets available to help put them over the top? Not saying that’s with Rangers either.

 

[QJL]

Not an accurate statement at all. Pretty much everyone in Winnipeg is happy with Pionk.

As they should be, he’s their best offensive defenseman.

 

[egelband]

it’s not bad. After year 3 or 4 it’s a highly moveable contract. The brunt of real cash will be paid by then. Also kreider is a physical freak so I don’t see him breaking down that quick. Also the way he works out and trains will be a good example for all the pups

Yeah. I don’t mind the deal and I think the “floor” for the deal isn’t that low; it’s a fairly safe bet, as these things go. I wouldn’t have fretted has they decided to trade CK, either, though. I think, on the other hand, the next Mika deal is going to be high ceiling/low floor, due to the injury question. I think he needs a couple heathy years going forward. Quietly, something worth watching. At least, I am, if I’m the front office.

 

[kovazub94]

Got to be careful with someone like Sakic. You might be able to pick off someone like Nieto but the big game he's going to want too much for.

As far as the Canes I think the thing with Fox started that whole ball rolling. The Canes were between a rock and a hard place with Fox (who was going to walk away and sign with the Rangers anyway) and though the Rangers didn't give them commensurate value for Fox we really didn't take advantage--2 2nd rounders for a 3rd round college kid who hadn't yet played an NHL game.

Good point. Treat your peers with respect and it will be remembered.

 

[Off Sides]

I am not a huge fan of Trouba's contract.

Yet I still think he is a good player to have when the Rangers are tied, up in score or on the PK.

His PP prowess though is basically shoot and hope. His puck moving game also leaves a lot to be desired.

If he ends up playing more on the PP, or when the Rangers are down in score and looking for a goal, I do not think he adds all that much to either of those in game scenarios.

That said, I don't see any way the Rangers move him, they need a match up type defensive RD who has some size and snarl. I am not so sure that player needed to be Trouba or any player who carried a contract like his, yet what's done is done.

 

[LokiDog]

I think there is near 0 chance that the Avalanche will move someone like Byram. Connor Timmins--another RD possibly but do we need another RD? Kaut and Bowers have been so-so at the AHL level--might just need to develop a bit more and get a little stronger. The really interesting prospect they have is Alex Newhook and after that maybe the young Finnish goalie Annunen.

I think Colorado has some of the same issues we have--just not as bad. They're a little thin though when it comes to muckers and grinders and depth defensemen. The injuries in the series against Dallas though played very much into their losing the series.

I think where they really got exposed was depth defense. Hutchinson was adequate as you could expect from a third string goalie, no team can really gameplan for having to try and win the Cup with their third string starting. But once EJ went down, I didn’t think Timmins looked great and when Timmins went down and they brought in Connauton they looked worse. They could use another guy like Cole. EJ has slowed down but is still solid for second/third pair. Makar and Girard are fine. Cole was great. Zadorov had a good playoffs. They need another solid veteran so that they’re not relying on guys like Connauton or Timmins when they have an injury, but they’re unlikely to bring in any big ticket defender because they’re not going to block Bowen. Reliable 6/7 is what they should be after.

Grubauer has great numbers for them, playoffs and regular season, but has never played more than 37 games in one season. I could see them upgrading in goal since there are a lot of goalies available, but upgrading in goal doesn’t make you immune to injuries and they won’t carry three NHL level goalies. The injuries in net were just bad luck.

As far as forwards go, I know that the only thing they’re actively looking for is a solid 3C. O’Conner, Bellemare, Calvert is their 4th line going forward and they love it. Landeskog, Mack, Rants, Kadri, Burakovsky are all top six locks. Donskoi and Compher are the line three wings. Jost will be gone. They want a solid 3C from what numerous fans have said.

 

[Edge]

Thanks, as always, for the info. Interesting list of clubs, as on the surface I don't necessarily see good fits (aside from Bufflalo and Calgary).

Chicago I would keep an eye on for the draft and with Georgiev.

 

[Edge]

I would think that #22 pick is going to get some calls now that it is set. Hope they have a list of entry level players who fit in to the plan.

I think the preference would be to move the pick for a young NHL talent.

The challenge is that I don’t know if there are many teams looking to move a young NHL talent for a pick right now - especially if some of them are looking to hedge their salary cap bets by moving more expensive talent and holding onto the cheaper NHL talent.

22 could be part of a bigger package, but that’s also going to be tricky right now.

It stands to reason that COVID changed the landscape and helped us land the first overall pick. It also stands to reason that it changed the approach of the Canes pick in the process.

 

[Edge]

Got to be careful with someone like Sakic. You might be able to pick off someone like Nieto but the big game he's going to want too much for.

As far as the Canes I think the thing with Fox started that whole ball rolling. The Canes were between a rock and a hard place with Fox (who was going to walk away and sign with the Rangers anyway) and though the Rangers didn't give them commensurate value for Fox we really didn't take advantage--2 2nd rounders for a 3rd round college kid who hadn't yet played an NHL game.

I think Colorado is looking for depth. I wouldn’t expect a blockbuster there.

 

[Edge]

As a business development manager, I can tell you some of the best deals never actually come to fruition.

Ironically, those deals often times spawn themselves into mini deals that seem insignificant at times, but ultimately aren’t.

Happens way more often than people think. The Rangers dealings with the Canes are a prime example.

The separate deals with Boston a few years back came from multiple discussions. Ditto for Winnipeg last year.

People would be surprised to learn how many times the Rangers have circled back with Edmonton, Calgary and Toronto in recent years.

The list of almost deals over the years is interesting.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think people need to pump the brakes on labeling Trouba a bad player. I think he's the type of player you need in a playoff series, big, physical, hard to play against,mobile and can move the puck. A lot of players that arrive to NY appear to not be at their best the first year esepcially when a big contract is attached to them maybe trying to do too much, panarin and Jagr are obviously not in that group but it usually takes some adjustment and to me i saw him get better and better before the break so hopefully he can get back to that next year. Its players like him that take the hard minutes vs opposing top lines that leaves the dmen behind him in better spots.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I think Colorado is looking for depth. I wouldn’t expect a blockbuster there.

I really feel Lundqvist to Colorado would be a wonderful thing for everyone, like Ray Bourque all over again.

 

[Edge]

I really feel Lundqvist to Colorado would be a wonderful thing for everyone, like Ray Bourque all over again.

I don’t believe anyone wants him at even half of his salary right now. Also not sure anyone views him as the answer in goal.

That’s what makes him finding another job in the NHL interesting. Does he really want to go to a middle of the road team in the hopes that maybe he can beat out the competition? It’s not like he’s a skater who can slide into a bottom six support role.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I don’t believe anyone wants him at even half of his salary right now. Also not sure anyone views him as the answer in goal.

That’s what makes him finding another job in the NHL interesting. Does he really want to go to a middle of the road team in the hopes that maybe he can beat out the competition? It’s not like he’s a skater who can slide into a bottom six support role.

I think he could be their tandem guy with Grubhauer but Francouz just signed his deal so who knows. He definitely would have been an upgrade over Francouz and Hutchinson. Its not likely to happen but for me it makes sense. I just don't think this organization is going to buy out Hendrik and i also don't think he wants to retire. Sadly its probably Georgiev that gets moved. Probably the best but unlikely move due to geography for Hank would be reuniting with Talbot, maybe that benefits both players.