Roster Building thread - Part IX - (2024 edition)

[effen]

Ya mean the team that is on pace for 100+ points for the 3rd straight season, been in first all year, and currently on a 7 game win streak? Nah, we suck.

Goes to show positioning is the most important aspect of the game. For all their faults, when's the last time Kreider or Zibanejad were off in Narnia?

 

[zlev]

Giroux is good but I trust these 2 dorks’ charts less than a Miss Cleo over the phone fortune reading.

his evolving hockey chart is great too fwiw

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

at this point in the year all the people who were mad that Trochek was signed instead of Chytil being given the 2nd line center spot are probably seeing why that happened...somewhat less to do with Chytil's abilities and more that he can't stay healthy (and that Trocheck is a really good player and people keep trying to pigeon hole him as a 3rd liner)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Chytil start the season as the 2C?

 

[Machinehead]

his evolving hockey chart is great too fwiw

I find that they're mostly consistent. Dom just makes shit up as he goes along.

 

[Machinehead]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Chytil start the season as the 2C?

Not really. He was on the line that happens to be listed second but he was nowhere near the other two in ice time.

 

[Levitate]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Chytil start the season as the 2C?

Yes, but my point was that many people were mad that Trocheck was signed at all because they thought the money should have been spent elsewhere and that Chytil should be given the 2C spot
IMO Trocheck is still a better player than Chytil even when Chytil is healthy but if the team had gone all in on Chytil it would have been incredibly thin at center

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yes, but my point was that many people were mad that Trocheck was signed at all because they thought the money should have been spent elsewhere and that Chytil should be given the 2C spot
IMO Trocheck is still a better player than Chytil even when Chytil is healthy but if the team had gone all in on Chytil it would have been incredibly thin at center

And we end up thin at center anyway....sometimes you just can't win.

 

[Levitate]

And we end up thin at center anyway....sometimes you just can't win.

yeah but imagine where we'd be without Trocheck...

 

[17futurecap]

It’s a shame he didn’t want to come to the Rangers at the deadline a few years ago. Worked out for the Flyers though getting Tippett.

 

[kovazub94]

Because he kills penalties which you can get a plus for and not a minus. The rules of traditional +/- are arbitrary and that's why nobody uses it.

Stopped reading after "because he kills penalties"... you can do better than this.

 

[kovazub94]

Yes, but my point was that many people were mad that Trocheck was signed at all because they thought the money should have been spent elsewhere and that Chytil should be given the 2C spot
IMO Trocheck is still a better player than Chytil even when Chytil is healthy but if the team had gone all in on Chytil it would have been incredibly thin at center

I'm honestly surprised how much offense Trocheck has brought this season. We'd never know (at least this season) but I have my doubts that Chytil would be as effective - he might be level with generating chances but I'm not sold on actually converting.

That aside your point about "foresight" to get Trocheck AND able to sign Chytil is big!

 

[kovazub94]

I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that for me the only relevant analytical stat is (relative) generation or suppression of high-danger chances.

 

[Raspewtin]

I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that for me the only relevant analytical stat is (relative) generation or suppression of high-danger chances.

that's a bit too narrow imo.......most goals aren't scored on high danger chances.

 

[kovazub94]

that's a bit too narrow imo.......most goals aren't scored on high danger chances.

This is where aspect of relative to one’s teammates or league average should come in. Too much randomness elsewhere.

Edit: This is not to say that other stats are completely irrelevant but they’d require a lot more context. I like zone entry / exit stats too for example. Offensive zone puck control time, etc. High danger chances IMO are the most telling. Goals scored on low and most of mid quality chances I fully attribute to goalies.

 

[effen]

I'm honestly surprised how much offense Trocheck has brought this season. We'd never know (at least this season) but I have my doubts that Chytil would be as effective - he might be level with generating chances but I'm not sold on actually converting.

That aside your point about "foresight" to get Trocheck AND able to sign Chytil is big!

Trochek's biggest strength IMO is staying within himself and rarely making hope plays. There's a lot to be said for just keeping the play going when you're decently skilled.

That and he takes space and if not owns it, at least fights for it. Too many guys on the team just accept an on-ice position of less resistance, Mika in particular.

 

[80shockeywasbuns]

yeah but imagine where we'd be without Trocheck...

Well had they not signed Trocheck I’d hope they’d have used his 5.6 Mil on multiple playable top 9 forwards. People act like the alternative to Tro had to be 6 Boninos

 

[Machinehead]

Stopped reading after "because he kills penalties"... you can do better than this.

What are you expecting me to "do better?"

I'm literally just pointing out an inherent flaw in plus/minus. It rewards being on your team's penalty kill and penalizes being on your team's powerplay.

That's why everyone born after 52 AD uses 5v5 goal differential. It's objectively a more accurate stat.

 

[kovazub94]

What are you expecting me to "do better?"

I'm literally just pointing out an inherent flaw in plus/minus. It rewards being on your team's penalty kill and penalizes being on your team's powerplay.

That's why everyone born after 52 AD uses 5v5 goal differential. It's objectively a more accurate stat.

PK doesn’t reward you to make any impactful difference

 

[Machinehead]

PK doesn’t reward you to make any impactful difference

It makes a huge difference. Lots of guys who PK a lot have a much better +/- than 5v5 GF%.

Where do you think the difference comes from? Goals are a black and white counting stat.

Sidney Crosby is +228 for his career. He's +275 at 5v5. Where did 47 goals go? He's constantly on his team's powerplay, that's where they went.

 

[kovazub94]

It makes a huge difference. Lots of guys who PK a lot have a much better +/- than 5v5 GF%.

Where do you think the difference comes from? Goals are a black and white counting stat.

We’re talking +/- being a faulty stat. The reason for this is not due to PK or PP impact that’s very easy to isolate.

 

[Vitto79]

Brooks throwing the Wennberg name out there

Wennberg and Eberle costs what ?

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

In terms of cost and guys who I think will cost a minimal amount of assets, I still think Okposo and Girgensons are the easy slam dunk options at forward. The team needs another player who can play center and Okposo has a nice ability to play either in the top-6 and not look completely out of place, ala Wheeler, or in the bottom-6.

Okposo
14p in 52 games @ 5v5
-1.4 CF rel
1.4 p/60 @ 5v5
13:42 TOI per game on average

Girgensons
4p in 37 games
-0.2 CF rel
0.6 p/60
11:34 TOI per game
- The last 2 years his numbers have been closer to 1.4p/60 to 1.8 p/60 and pretty even possession numbers while getting pretty heavy defensive deployment

The total cap hit here is $5m. This likely allows for the team to demote Rempe and push Vesey down to the 4th line again. They COULD demote Edstrom as well and recall him as needed.

Panarin-Trochek-Lafreniere
Kreider-Zibanejad-Okposo
Cuylle-Brodzinski-Kakko
Goodrow-Girgensons-Vesey
No spare

With Wheeler out and Chytil out, the team should have ~$6m to play with so Drury would still have some cap space, up to $1.8 if they trade Jones, to backfill on defense.

Hello, Sabres fan here. I saw this and just wanted to let you all know that Girgensons has not played center regularly in like 8 years. He can fill in in a pinch but he's really a winger.

 

[zlev]

Brooks throwing the Wennberg name out there

Wennberg and Eberle costs what ?

probably one of our better prospects and a 1st

 

[Clark Kellogg]

probably one of our better prospects and a 1st

I’m all for Eberle. if Seattle is still on the outside looking in come March 1st offer Robertson.
If Seattle balks then walk away.
He a UFA something is better than nothing.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Brooks throwing the Wennberg name out there

Wennberg and Eberle costs what ?

1st+ for both.

I don't think Wennberg is really the type of player we need.

Handsome as f*** though. May be the best looking dude in the league.