Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIV: 2021: “The Fun has begun” or “Over & done”?

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That may well be. I started the year believing that barring the wheels completely falling off the bus, that he is finishing the year and will be at the helm to start the year next year. I thought that they would be a bubble team for most of the year, which means that the chances of them making the playoffs were just as good as them missing the playoffs. Given the injuries, the DeAngelo situation, the Panarin situation and the fact that Zibanejad has the same amount of points as Ryan Lindgren, they are about where I expected them to be.

Due to covid (no one wants to pay a coach to sit on his ass) and the roster situation (about 20 million in cap tied up in buyouts/dead weight) I expected Quinn to finish the year at the very least. I expect they will give him a fair shot with an actual roster next year and when he falls short he would be replaced mid season or they simply would not renew his contract once it expires at the end of next year.

Quinn was not hired to be a systems coach, he was hired because he has a long history of working with kids at BU and teaching them how to be a pro, and we of course are rebuilding and have a lot of kids coming up. He did a good job with that BU program from 2013-2018. People have been complaining that he's holding the team back since he got hired, they're just apparently clueless as to what he was hired for.

The team caught lightning in a bottle last season with Panarin being an MVP caliber player and Zibanejad having an ungodly year among other things. That set expectations unreasonably high.
 
It could just be that Yzerman realizes needs quantity over quality at this point. 2 players on elcs or bridge deals that are b level players help his team more than one A level guy, especially if the B guys have potential to become A's..
 
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My concerns with Larkin are that 1) the cost being exuberantly high as it relates to his actual production and 2)he’s a UFA in two years.

Now I think there’s a more than decent chance he would re-sign here in UFA, but it’s not guaranteed.

At least with someone like Eichel I know the assets I’m trading are bringing back a high production star player, and he’s gonna be here at minimum another 5 years
 
we gave ADA 4.8M and Strome 4.5.. Like I already said, it was an overpayment considering the current market.

The market is depressed for players... This is the first time I can ever remember this happening. The Market is based on what teams will pay for the player. Who is offering Buch that money? I personally don't see the fit anywhere, so I'm asking you, maybe I missed it.

If the Rangers want to outbid themselves, that'd be dumb. 2 years - 4ish M per. He's still restricted as well.

Those were both RFAs, both with question marks (for entirely different reasons), and they still got 4.5 and 4.8.

I don't have the breakdown of cap space available for each team next year, but all it takes is 1 team to make an offer. One example? The Devils have Gusev coming off the cap next year, I bet they wouldn't mind having Buch on Hughes' or Hischier's wing.
 
There's no chance that Buch signs for anything less than $5m, there's way too many comps. Bjorkstand, Mantha, Josh Anderson all make north of 5 mil annually
 
My concerns with Larkin are that 1) the cost being exuberantly high as it relates to his actual production and 2)he’s a UFA in two years.

Now I think there’s a more than decent chance he would re-sign here in UFA, but it’s not guaranteed.

At least with someone like Eichel I know the assets I’m trading are bringing back a high production star player, and he’s gonna be here at minimum another 5 years

Like anything else, cost is a big part of the equation. If we start getting insanely high, that really impacts the interest level.

The UFA thing I feel like would be less of an issue because I think the Rangers would make a move to sign him long-term.

But to your point, context is always key.
 
I think he’s signed but the terms are “tradeable”

they learned from the ADA scenario, or at least I hope they did. Market value is going to be 15-25% less, if not more. Using ADA as the example, his terms should have been at 3.6per

so Buch should be getting around the same. High 3s low 4s

people keep saying ADA is not getting moved because he’s toxic. IMO that’s not the main reason
Buch is gonna want a payday. If he keeps up this scoring pace. He's the Rangers' point leader at the moment.
 
Those were both RFAs, both with question marks (for entirely different reasons), and they still got 4.5 and 4.8.

I don't have the breakdown of cap space available for each team next year, but all it takes is 1 team to make an offer. One example? The Devils have Gusev coming off the cap next year, I bet they wouldn't mind having Buch on Hughes' or Hischier's wing.
You keep glossing over the point that the market is a lot worse than Orgs in October 2020 thought.

If I buy something in October 2020 and the market crashes, I will not be offering/buying at Oct. 2020 prices. I feel like this should be self evident.

Buch is gonna want a payday. If he keeps up this scoring pace. He's the Rangers' point leader at the moment.
He's shit out of luck then. There's no pay day coming IMO. It'd be a 1 or 2 year deal. He can keep the current pace and try again once things 'normalize'
 
You keep glossing over the point that the market is a lot worse than Orgs in October 2020 thought.

If I buy something in October 2020 and the market crashes, I will not be offering/buying at Oct. 2020 prices. I feel like this should be self evident.

How is it worse than what they thought in October 2020? We were 7-8 months into a pandemic. I'm pretty sure they were aware of the economic landscape.
 
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Due to covid (no one wants to pay a coach to sit on his ass) and the roster situation (about 20 million in cap tied up in buyouts/dead weight) I expected Quinn to finish the year at the very least. I expect they will give him a fair shot with an actual roster next year and when he falls short he would be replaced mid season or they simply would not renew his contract once it expires at the end of next year.

Quinn was not hired to be a systems coach, he was hired because he has a long history of working with kids at BU and teaching them how to be a pro, and we of course are rebuilding and have a lot of kids coming up. He did a good job with that BU program from 2013-2018. People have been complaining that he's holding the team back since he got hired, they're just apparently clueless as to what he was hired for.
I do not think that this is really far off the mark. If I had to bet today, I would be that Quinn starts and finishes the year next year. And how he does then, will determine what happens to him in the future.
The team caught lightning in a bottle last season with Panarin being an MVP caliber player and Zibanejad having an ungodly year among other things. That set expectations unreasonably high.
I think that people greatly underestimate this. Panarin has now missed the equivalent of 40% of the current games and Zibanejad has as many points as Ryan Lindgren. If this was Colorado and the names were Makinnon and Landeskpg, do people think that they would be where they are in the standings? Then pretend that Kadri missed as many games as Chytil has on top of that.
 
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Like anything else, cost is a big part of the equation. If we start getting insanely high, that really impacts the interest level.

The UFA thing I feel like would be less of an issue because I think the Rangers would make a move to sign him long-term.

But to your point, context is always key.
You may have mentioned this already but do you have a sense of what it would cost to get Larkin?

I’d assume it would start with Lundkvist (or someone like him) and add from there
 
However the combination, that's an intriguing top-9 if Zibanejad is playing up to expectations.

Lemiuex , Rooney , Gauthier has potential as a 4th. They just need to move on from Howden , PDG as a ufa and have Blackwell spare
 
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However the combination, that's an intriguing top-9 if Zibanejad is playing up to expectations.

Post development, it would be the first time since 2015 that the Rangers had a top 9 completely comprised of skilled players with offensive upside.

Kreider-Stepan-Nash
Hagelin-Richards-St. Louis
Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello
Moore-Boyle-Dorsett

was the 2014 combination. After the Richards buyout he was replaced with rookie Hayes, and Pouliot with JT Miller.

We've never really gotten anywhere near that balance since.
 
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Because why not, what sort of contract do people think RNH Gets this off-season?

And here is why I ask, would anyone do the following trade:

Eichel @ $10m for RNH @ $6m + Lundqvist + Buch + NYR 1st '21 + Lemieux

Because IF the Rangers could get RNH as a UFA, they'd be saving those future assets for something else...
 
End the year something like this:

Panarin-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Kreider-Chytil-Kakko
Lafreniere-Strome-Kravtsov
Lemieux-Bennett-Gauthier/Blackbeard
Rooney

Trade 2 reclamations as in Howden+ to Calgary for Bennett
If would try to make another trade with Vancouver as well for youngish sandpaper depth on fwd
I Zib were to waive (doubtful) - sending him to Vegas ($$ retained) for one of their young centers and an upper echelon draft pick has to be an option as well.

Get another good 1st round pick
Buyout ADA
Sign all the RFAS to reasonable deals at a MAX of 4 years.
Amass young attractive assets...
Then you have the foundation for a very interesting offseason as capstrapped teams will begin unloading plenty of contracts. And paying dearly for it.
What do you do with Zibs long term? I'm shying away from him tbh.. If we can get Krebs for Zibs, I'm all for it... contingent on getting another youngish Center like Larkin
 
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Because why not, what sort of contract do people think RNH Gets this off-season?

And here is why I ask, would anyone do the following trade:

Eichel @ $10m for RNH @ $6m + Lundqvist + Buch + NYR 1st '21 + Lemieux

Because IF the Rangers could get RNH as a UFA, they'd be saving those future assets for something else...

All depends on Zibanejad's and Chytil's second halves of the season. We'd be bringing in RNH to be a 2c, not the number one guy. If they don't plan on extending Zib/he never recovers his form, and Chytil doesn't progress towards what looks like a #1 center, you're going to end up with a team that has 3 "2nd" line centers again.
 
Around the same age we got Brass, Zibs and Strome. Seemed to work out fine.

I really do not want 'green' center depth. I personally rather have a youngish player that has developed at the position already.

I dunno, I don't see a lot of room for growth into a 90 point player there.
 
What's a 'fair' contract for Buchnevich on his next deal? $5.5m? Kreider got $6.5m.

Kreider
Panarin
Kaako
Lafreniere

Gauthier
Kravtsov
Barron

Lemieux


Very shortly, we are going to need to slide one of the LW's over to RW in order to get guys minutes more than likely. That's going to push Buch or Kaako down.

I'd rather trade Buch for assets now and then use assets in the future to target the right center.

Theoretically let's say they trade Buch for an A prospect + 1st + cap dumps

In the off-season, Yzerman wants an A prospect + 1st + utility young NHLer for Larkin.


What trading Buch does is open up the opportunity to have cap space and more cheap, young assets in a time when both will be absolute king with a flat cap.

I've said this many times and keep getting pushback from a particular poster.
 
All depends on Zibanejad's and Chytil's second halves of the season. We'd be bringing in RNH to be a 2c, not the number one guy. If they don't plan on extending Zib/he never recovers his form, and Chytil doesn't progress towards what looks like a #1 center, you're going to end up with a team that has 3 "2nd" line centers again.
With the talent on the wings I think you are ok with 3 2nd line centers as long as there is the right mix of attributes down the middle.
 
Buch for Larkin might be a good trade to explore if Detroit wasn't probably looking for younger players and picks. The guy that seems to be the odd man out is Buch. He needs to be resigned this summer and if he keeps up this point production, it will likely be at a cost this team simply can't afford.

If Gauthier keeps playing the way he is and Kravstov shows promise, you need to keep them over Buch. They are cheaper and the next 3 years are going to be very complex with young Rangers players and contracts.
 
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