Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIV: 2021: “The Fun has begun” or “Over & done”?

[Fitzy]

I don't think RNH would be the right decision. Might as well just re-sign Zibanejad in that case assuming he bounces back.

I think the RNH contingency assumes both, since he’d make considerably less than Eichel

 

[DutchShamrock]

Yeah, even considering the flat cap I'd very, very surprised if RNH wasn't able to get north of what Hayes got from Philly. Centers are always at a premium.

Wings and lower tier players suffered last summer. Covid didn't impact Petriangelo one bit. Teams will pony up for needs.

 

[Ola]

I can't help but feel that if Zibanejad is closer to his 2018-2019 form (forget last year), this is a playoff team and a team with the emerging talent to close the gap faster than people think.

So if we swap Zibanejad with someone performing closer to that 2018-19 level, I think we're in a very different place.

This has been a really weird year, but I don't think we're as far off as you might believe. We still have Laf, Kakko, Miller, Lundkvist, Kravtsov, Barron, Chytil, Shesterkin, Fox, Lindgren, Robertson, and Schneider who combined have all of 500 games of NHL experiences between the 12 of them. That's A LOT of talent.

Let's even say the Rangers are three years away from challenging those teams. Someone like Larkin would still be younger than Zibanejad is today. The guy is younger than our rookie starting goalie.

Eh, what? A team like Boston have to show up for 1 if 3 periods against us to walk away with 2 pts — and you think our big problem is Ziba’s individual play.

I get it, the incompetent clowns running this franchise needs a scape goat — but isn’t this a bit rich even for you??

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I think the RNH contingency assumes both, since he’d make considerably less than Eichel

How much is considerably less? He already makes 6 million and is likely in line for a raise or at least 1.5 and that’s being very conservative.

 

[duhmetreE]

I think the RNH contingency assumes both, since he’d make considerably less than Eichel

I'm curious as to what RNH will get because I think Zibs might be getting a similar contract if re-signed this offseason.

We may see A LOT of players take 1-2 year deals. Might work in our interest, a short term deal for Zibs, would be great.

 

[Fitzy]

How much is considerably less? He already makes 6 million and is likely in line for a raise or at least 1.5 and that’s being very conservative.

NYR could probably fit Zibby at 9 and RNH at 7, but Eichel at 10 and Zibby at 9, that's a big three million extra.

Plus- in the RNH hypothetical, NYR have more options, present and future, on ELC contracts to fill out the lineup, representing prospects we wouldn't have to trade away for Jack Eichel.

 

[Fitzy]

I'm curious as to what RNH will get because I think Zibs might be getting a similar contract if re-signed this offseason.

We may see A LOT of players take 1-2 year deals.

Depends on how long the players think the cap will be low. If it's 3-4 years as Bettman suggests, this is just gonna be a whole new era of austerity spending in the NHL. Bad time for you to be a soon-to-be UFA looking to cash in.

 

[duhmetreE]

I thought the numbers might've been leaning towards Fox but I wasn't totally confident in that. Yes, it's definitely a smaller sample but I have a hard time seeing a major regression either. Fox was known for his prowess on the powerplay at every level he's played at, so this isn't exactly a surprise.

Zibanejad not being able to score has been hugely detrimental to that top unit's effectiveness.

To the detriment of the entire team.

Our PP is setup for him. Lives and dies on his blade.... there's been nothing but death so far

 

[Kovalev27]

What's a 'fair' contract for Buchnevich on his next deal? $5.5m? Kreider got $6.5m.

Kreider
Panarin
Kaako
Lafreniere

Gauthier
Kravtsov
Barron

Lemieux


Very shortly, we are going to need to slide one of the LW's over to RW in order to get guys minutes more than likely. That's going to push Buch or Kaako down.

I'd rather trade Buch for assets now and then use assets in the future to target the right center.

Theoretically let's say they trade Buch for an A prospect + 1st + cap dumps

In the off-season, Yzerman wants an A prospect + 1st + utility young NHLer for Larkin.


What trading Buch does is open up the opportunity to have cap space and more cheap, young assets in a time when both will be absolute king with a flat cap.

It’s pretty clear as you just stated. People don’t want to come to that conclusion but Buchnevich has to be moved. In a flat cap world with a wealth of young depth on the wings you need mins AND already having committed big money to two veteran wingers. It just is what it is.

 

[itsPLkielbasa]

NYR could probably fit Zibby at 9 and RNH at 7, but Eichel at 10 and Zibby at 9, that's a big three million extra.

Plus- in the RNH hypothetical, NYR have more options, present and future, on ELC contracts to fill out the lineup, representing prospects we wouldn't have to trade away for Jack Eichel.

Where would we slot RNH? Behind or in front of Chytil?

I like the idea of RNH. I still think we have to go out and get a big body winger who can play and throw hits. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE Greenway but doubt that happens.

 

[duhmetreE]

Depends on how long the players think the cap will be low. If it's 3-4 years as Bettman suggests, this is just gonna be a whole new era of austerity spending in the NHL. Bad time for you to be a soon-to-be UFA looking to cash in.

There's no scenario I can think of, besides a major bailout package from the federal goverment, where it wouldn't take that long.

The players will owe A LOT... I mean A LOT of money. How long will it take to pay off the imbalance? 3-4 years seems conservative in some regards... Unless we're talking 20-25% escrow.

I could be wrong but from my understanding it's a literal NHL market depression.

 

[Fitzy]

Where would we slot RNH? Behind or in front of Chytil?

I like the idea of RNH. I still think we have to go out and get a big body winger who can play and throw hits. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE Greenway but doubt that happens.

I'm not advocating RNH, but if we sign him and get rid of Strome, then you've pretty much got three interchangeable scoring lines. Chytil, Zib, Nuge can all play lines 1-2-3 just like Laf, Panarin and Kreider can.

The situation at RW is a little more opaque until we know Buchnevich's future, Kravtsov's potential, and Gauthier's development.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Carp latest in the Athletic is saying the Rangers will be sellers at the deadline and he thinks the three most likely to go are Strome Buch and Lemieux (great detective work by Carp lol)

 

[Ola]

To the detriment of the entire team.

Our PP is setup for him. Lives and dies on his blade.... there's been nothing but death so far

It has been since Panarin left, but before that he didn’t have a big role on the PP at all. Panarin on the left, Strome on the right and Fox at top. He moved around in between.

Ziba has what 9 pts in 23 games. That is awful. He missed camp and had a bad start, then obviously he was a bit snake bitten. And not only him, Kreider couldn’t score too at the start of the year and that definitely cost Ziba some assists.

But honestly, the efforts to pin this teams struggles solely on Zibanejad — I think that is border line offensive. The team just haven’t played well enough.

But it’s always the same with someone like Brooks and way to many around this organization. Pin it on the players. It’s Ziba now. Think Kakko is next. He won’t have it. He is training wrong.

We all know how these guys think. Oh if we only had someone like Eichel or Larkin — instead of the crap we gave now who just want to pass the puck. I am sure it will work out well!

 

[Edge]

Eh, what? A team like Boston have to show up for 1 if 3 periods against us to walk away with 2 pts — and you think our big problem is Ziba’s individual play.

I get it, the incompetent clowns running this franchise needs a scape goat — but isn’t this a bit rich even for you??

You don’t think going from a 60 goal 112 point pace to a 10 goal, 31 point pace has a crippling and reverberating impact throughout the entire lineup?

Perhaps we need more power forwards like Brett Howden?

 

[Ola]

I wouldn’t be surprised if we got both Larkin and Eichel. Just like we did with Gomez and Drury. And Redden. And Gaborik. And Nash.

Meanwhile, we aren’t playing good at all. That should be the concern. It’s a team game, we need to play better as a team. We need to compete better as a team. We need to fight harder. We need to excute better.

 

[duhmetreE]

It has been since Panarin left, but before that he didn’t have a big role on the PP at all. Panarin on the left, Strome on the right and Fox at top. He moved around in between.

Ziba has what 9 pts in 23 games. That is awful. He missed camp and had a bad start, then obviously he was a bit snake bitten. And not only him, Kreider couldn’t score too at the start of the year and that definitely cost Ziba some assists.

But honestly, the efforts to pin this teams struggles solely on Zibanejad — I think that is border line offensive. The team just haven’t played well enough.

But it’s always the same with someone like Brooks and way to many around this organization. Pin it on the players. It’s Ziba now. Think Kakko is next. He won’t have it. He is training wrong.

We all know how these guys think. Oh if we only had someone like Eichel or Larkin — instead of the crap we gave now who just want to pass the puck. I am sure it will work out well!

The entire PP is setup for Zibs IMO. Even with Panarin. He is the finisher on the PP. He's flubbed enough setups/shots to last a lifetime. His only PP goal was, actually, a flubbed shot. The first 10 games, they kept setting him up with the same 'off-angle' 1 timer by the goal line. They set him up in the slot and the left dot.

When Panarin wants to shoot, we're much better but for the most part, its been nearly all Zibs on PP1.

He's our finisher on our PP and he has 1 flubbed PP goal from game 3.. dont get me wrong our setup/personnel choice is still bad.

 

[TheBloodyNine]

NYR could probably fit Zibby at 9 and RNH at 7, but Eichel at 10 and Zibby at 9, that's a big three million extra.

Plus- in the RNH hypothetical, NYR have more options, present and future, on ELC contracts to fill out the lineup, representing prospects we wouldn't have to trade away for Jack Eichel.

Flat cap or not, I could see RNH getting 8 mill offers at least.

 

[Ola]

You don’t think going from a 60 goal 112 point pace to a 10 goal, 31 point pace has a crippling and reverberating impact throughout the entire lineup?

Perhaps we need more power forwards like Brett Howden?

But Edge, this isn’t baseball. Hockey is a team game.

The team had a different dimension offensively last season. What happened to that dimension?

But tell your buds to keep up the good work! Make no changes the coming year, everything is going great! We can all see how DQs plan slowly but surely is being implemented and leading us in the right direction. They will surely do well when they hit the ice in front of 18,200 at MSG next fall. NY is a patient place.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

It is clearly Fox's fault that Panarin is out and Zibanejad can't shoot a one-timer anymore.

I f***ing knew it. Damnit Fox!

 

[Fitzy]

Flat cap or not, I could see RNH getting 8 mill offers at least.

If thats the case, run, not walk away

 

[Ola]

The entire PP is setup for Zibs IMO. Even with Panarin. He is the finisher on the PP. He's flubbed enough to last a lifetime. His only PP goal was actually a flubbed shot. The first 10 games they kept setting him up with the same 'off-angle' 1 timer by the goal line. They set him up in the slot and the left dot. When Panarin wants to shoot, we're much better but for the most part its been nearly all Zibs.

He's our finisher on our PP and he has 1 flubbed PP goal from game 3.. dont get me wrong our setup/personnel choice is still bad.

Yeah, I am not really defending him. He has been awful, and I don’t know why he can’t get of clean shots.

Just saying, the talk about how all this team’s problems is the fault of Zibanejad is sad to hear. A good coach will stand up and take heat from his players if they struggle, not fight to get first in line to throw them under the bus.

 

[Edge]

But Edge, this isn’t baseball. Hockey is a team game.

The team had a different dimension offensively last season. What happened to that dimension?

I think you pretty much answered your question with the first statement and the fact that our keystone center see an unprecedented fall-off of close to 80 points per 82 games.

I don’t think that’s the only problem, not by a long shot. But it’s a hell of a crater too.

 

[Ola]

If thats the case, run, not walk away

I think that Gorton has done a — fantastic — job working the phones. Making things happen in a league were way to many GMs are complacent, and don’t get anything done. And Gorton has also accumulated a lot of assets we will have a little flexibility under the cap. All this should be used going forward.

But — we cannot expect to build a winner around big names that we go out and get in trades.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

When panarin is back i want him on the left side wall for the shot and Zib as the bumper.