Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIV: 2021: “The Fun has begun” or “Over & done”?

[ArPanet]

Nah I am good thanks. That is your opinion, which is a wrong one because Pouliot did not have the same speed, shot, or ability to just drive hard around defenders as Gauthier has over and over again. You can try and pass your feelings off of Gauthier being a nothing player as truths, but thats really just your opinion.


At the end of the day, I am banking my money with Gauthier’s potential/ceiling when determining who to protect in expansion. Forget roles. Roles are so much less prevalent in today’s hockey. You need scoring on all 3 lines, with the 4th being an energy line that has even has some talent on it from your young kids playing on ELCs. All the sudden Buch was a PKer this year. You can find other players to PK and replace Howden tomorrow.

who knows maybe with his length and speed he’d be a better pker than Howden too

 

[Off Sides]

The issue I see with Detroit is any trade they make is going to be for stuff the Rangers should be keeping.

Trading with a team who believes they are a contender is far more likely to yield stuff that fits into the same timeline as Kakko, Laf, Miller, all the prospects behind them.

I mean unless this is the Rangers needing to go for it over the next two years, in which case they are nowhere near that position and any thought of it should be dismissed.

 

[duhmetreE]

I get that moving in from Buch may make sense in a flat cap world where he plays a position of relative depth and is due a big raise.

But man it scares me to strip another vet who is generally performing well from this roster. Would think ideal scenario would be in a “hockey trade” for a C but I’m sure that is far easier said than done.

I think he’s signed but the terms are “tradeable”

they learned from the ADA scenario, or at least I hope they did. Market value is going to be 15-25% less, if not more. Using ADA as the example, his terms should have been at 3.6per

so Buch should be getting around the same. High 3s low 4s

people keep saying ADA is not getting moved because he’s toxic. IMO that’s not the main reason

 

[Savant]

Personally, I disagree. I think the Rangers are in much more of a prime position to start climbing than Detroit is.

Detroit doesn't have a Panarin, Kreider, Fox, etc. already in place. And, with due respect to their young talent, they don't have a Kakko or Lafreniere either.

I think Detroit needs several pieces before they get to where we are now. Let's even say they are a year or two behind us. That's basically the remaining time on Larkin's contract.

This team wasn't as far along as some believed, but it isn't terribly far away either.

Respectfully, I don’t know if I agree. I’m not trying to say the Rangers aren’t better that Detroit, but I think both teams aren’t particularly close. Detroit doesn’t have a star, but they don’t have the Rangers cap baggage either. They have more flexibility and a better front office with Yzerman there.

The Rangers aren’t close enough with Larkin that they wouldn’t have to worry about extending him. That’s what makes this a problem for me. This could easily be another empty calorie contract. The Rangers roster is still very weirdly constructed and unbalanced. It had been that way in the past (albeit with less offensive ceiling) but in the past they could hide behind Lundqvist. They don’t have that luxury with their goaltending right now. Also not to pile on Quinn, but the coaching is not exactly a strength either.

Obviously I could be wrong and maybe this is a bit pessimistic but I don’t see it. The Rangers do have a high ceiling but man there is a lot of variance with them too. I don’t think they are close to contending, and if they have to put money in around Larkin especially with a flat cap, I don’t think that is good asset management.

 

[TheBPA]

I think he’s signed but the terms are “tradeable”

they learned from the ADA scenario, or at least I hope they did. Market value is going to be 15-25% less, if not more. Using ADA as the example, his terms should have been at 3.6per

so Buch should be getting around the same. High 3s low 4s

people keep saying ADA is not getting moved because he’s toxic. IMO that’s not the main reason

If Buch gets signed for high 3s low 4s I will swim across the Hudson next January.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I'll be in the vast minority here...there are some things I don't agree with Quinn on, but I don't have a problem with younger kids getting limited ice time...yet. I was slightly concerned about Kakko last year, but after seeing how much he's improved as an overall hockey player this year, I have to give Quinn some credit. He's no developmental guru, but we can't ignore the strides Kakko has taken in his game.

Gauthier obviously doesn't have that level of skill and talent, but you can tell he's a very gifted player when he gets his opportunities. If Quinn prefers to teach them discipline and demand they learn how to play an overall game before lengthening the leash, I think I can live with it if the results are consistent.

Many people are quick to forget the Tortorella days (or just weren't watching that long ago). This team isn't nearly as relentless defensively, but the approach with young kids and demand for discipline is very similar. The team AV inherited knew exactly how to play and I would credit a lot of his success to what Torts did for those players. I can very easily see a similar trajectory with this team in the coming years. Only difference now is they have some truly elite talent at their disposal.

Not necessarily disagreeing, but that's been said of every Rangers coach this millennium... it's NY culture.... they lean on tried and true players or reap the consequences of playing Lafreniere or Kakko 20 min./game. They're in it to win. the points have to star coming for Kakko (no one assume I said "or else."

Gauthier is exquisitely talented. He needs to force the opportunities he gets.

 

[duhmetreE]

Unless Larkin has asked out of Detroit, why would they be moving him? He was just named team captain. He is 24 playing on a good deal and is a 1st line center. Clearly there is a lack of talent around him, but they do have a good prospect group. The only caveat is if he has decided he no longer wants to play there and even that, Yzerman doesn't have to move him at the moment.

Its been talked about slightly.

Maybe he doesn't want to be a part of a long rebuild and darts as a UFA for a contending team
-or-
Stevie Y uses him to land 2-3 good assets because he's not sure he'll be here long term... While also sucking next year with a great chance to land Wright or Savoie

 

[True Blue]

Julien Gauthier has 5 points in 18 games. 3 of those points came in the last 5 games in which, would you look at that, he was getting more minutes...

In the beginning of the season he rang the post twice. He scores those goals and he is sitting at 7 in 18. The kid generates offense.

Could it be...and just hear me out on this one...that this Coach is clueless when it comes to evaluating players at the NHL level and plays favorites? I know that is just too wild of a take for some to comprehend, but could it be possible?....

Guathier was looking like AHL fodder for most of year. I like his improvements, but let's not pretend that he was so so held down by Quinn that he forgot how to do anything meaningful on the ice.

And considering that he has FINALLY starting to resemble what can possibly be an NHL player, maybe there should be thanks to.......wait for it.......development for a coaching staff? Until recently, he looked no different than he did when he was in Carolina. Or is Brind'Amour just as clueless?

 

[bleedblue94]

I don't think ADA factors in that much. Fox and Trouba are the #1 and #2 RD on this team for the next several years. That makes ADA and Lundkvist potentially more expendable than lesser talents in a weaker organizational position.

I personally see a drop off from the pp1 with fox there instead of ada. Just the transition and movements. I was wondering moreso if longer term ada would've fit that 3rd and pp1 role but now with him out of the picture could NL be looked at to fill that role. It is a great problem to have so many coming options in such a hard position to fill. I think back to our RD when Gorts took over and it was a black hole, just funny how it has changed.

 

[Fitzy]

If Buch gets signed for high 3s low 4s I will swim across the Hudson next January.

His agent would be fired by every client he had.

 

[MetalJaws]

Barkov and Larkin are pipe dreams. Neither the local born Captain or highly liked Florida Captain having another solid year will be moved. What's next guys, Drai, McDavid and Mack?

 

[True Blue]

Have to believe the idea of trading him was much more stomachable when ada was a part of the future here

I do not think so as I do not believe that they looked at ADA as a future piece of the defense.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

If Buch gets signed for high 3s low 4s I will swim across the Hudson next January.

Right now 6m would be a discount,

 

[Reway10]

I'd much rather trade for Eichel than Larkin.

 

[True Blue]

The key for the Rangers is going to be creating a steady pipeline of complimentary players who can work with Panarin, Laf, and Kakko.

Bring back Boo.

 

[duhmetreE]

If Buch gets signed for high 3s low 4s I will swim across the Hudson next January.

Sounds like a date

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Every dollar on the cap counts but I’m not sure I like Larkin or RNH at 7 more than I like Eichel at 10, and I’m not a big trade the team for Eichel guy.

 

[duhmetreE]

Right now 6m would be a discount,

what team is going to give Buch $6M?

there's no market at that price.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Barkov and Larkin are pipe dreams. Neither the local born Captain or highly liked Florida Captain having another solid year will be moved. What's next guys, Drai, McDavid and Mack?

Lindholm

 

[RGY]

Guathier was looking like AHL fodder for most of year. I like his improvements, but let's not pretend that he was so so held down by Quinn that he forgot how to do anything meaningful on the ice.

And considering that he has FINALLY starting to resemble what can possibly be an NHL player, maybe there should be thanks to.......wait for it.......development for a coaching staff? Until recently, he looked no different than he did when he was in Carolina. Or is Brind'Amour just as clueless?

What is he supposed to show with 7 minutes per game? The first two weeks of the season he was one of the few forwards that was generating scoring chances even with the limited playing time.

He has plenty of quality shifts where he is noticeable throughout the season. But of course its also a bit hard to play when your walking on eggshells with a tight leash even though so many other players get a pass with this coach.

I am glad you brought up Carolina and Brindamour...where was he playing on that deep forward group and contending team? Or does that not matter?

 

[TheDirtyH]

The more time passes the worse DeAngelo's departure reflects on the outlook moving forward. For this season, you lose maybe your third most important offensive piece behind Zibanejad and Panarin (and have to replace him with Smith/Hajek/Bittetto/Johnson). Moving forward, you don't get anything in return, so it's just a straight hole with nothing coming back to offset the loss. And now, the cherry on top is that we get to add more dead cap space in the way of a buyout to a roster that already outspends the league in this category by a country mile.

There is no doubt our management is aggressive, can stockpile assets, and knows how to leverage those assets into other ones. Our drafting has been solid. Our trades have usually worked out. But our cap management has been horrendous for years. Thinking of adding players, even a Larkin on a moderate deal, seems almost guaranteed to screw us long term with the way with manage our cap space.

 

[Edge]

Respectfully, I don’t know if I agree. I’m not trying to say the Rangers aren’t better that Detroit, but I think both teams aren’t particularly close. Detroit doesn’t have a star, but they don’t have the Rangers cap baggage either. They have more flexibility and a better front office with Yzerman there.

The Rangers aren’t close enough with Larkin that they wouldn’t have to worry about extending him. That’s what makes this a problem for me. This could easily be another empty calorie contract. The Rangers roster is still very weirdly constructed and unbalanced. It had been that way in the past (albeit with less offensive ceiling) but in the past they could hide behind Lundqvist. They don’t have that luxury with their goaltending right now. Also not to pile on Quinn, but the coaching is not exactly a strength either.

Obviously I could be wrong and maybe this is a bit pessimistic but I don’t see it. The Rangers do have a high ceiling but man there is a lot of variance with them too. I don’t think they are close to contending, and if they have to put money in around Larkin especially with a flat cap, I don’t think that is good asset management.

See and I still disagree with that.

You have quite a bit of money coming off the bucks the next two years. And that doesn't take into account that Larking means Zibanejad is moving out, so that's a cap wash and replacing some assets. Depending on what you have to give up, you have a pipeline of talent coming along that will be filling roles --- they just aren't there yet.

This team has holes, because it's in a transition period. Detroit isn't even done with its accumulation period. But you've got quite a bit of talent coming along as well, and a decent amount of money to work with as well.

 

[Anthony5967]

He's not gonna be ready. People need to be prepared for this. He's absolutely not walking into the lineup and playing a lot.

He just had four points in five games in the KHL playoffs. He’s a much better option than Howden or Di Guiseppe. especially since the organization wants to get the prospects’ feet wet to begin with. Sitting him out does nothing.

 

[True Blue]

Iso Buch should be getting around the same. High 3s low 4s

people keep saying ADA is not getting moved because he’s toxic. IMO that’s not the main reason

Buchnevich is making $3.25 now and is having a great season. And you believe he should make no less than $1m increase? You really think that this is a realistic statement? The kid is going to get $5-5.5. And rightfully so.

And wait? You actually believe that the reason that DeAngelo is not getting moved is his contract and not toxicity? Teams did not need to conduct their own due diligence to see that. They ALL walked away after the due diligence.

 

[Edge]

Lindholm

I'd love Lindholm.

But that price just keeps going up, assuming it was even still an option.