Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXIV: 2021: “The Fun has begun” or “Over & done”?

[Edge]

Lundkvist's name comes up less from a desire to trade him, so much as that he falls into that cross section of playing a position where the Rangers have some options, roster formation, and potential value as a trade chip.

But it doesn't necessarily come up because anyone "wants" to trade him.

 

[MarkMessyay11]

Julien Gauthier has 5 points in 18 games. 3 of those points came in the last 5 games in which, would you look at that, he was getting more minutes...

In the beginning of the season he rang the post twice. He scores those goals and he is sitting at 7 in 18. The kid generates offense.

Could it be...and just hear me out on this one...that this Coach is clueless when it comes to evaluating players at the NHL level and plays favorites? I know that is just too wild of a take for some to comprehend, but could it be possible?....

I'll be in the vast minority here...there are some things I don't agree with Quinn on, but I don't have a problem with younger kids getting limited ice time...yet. I was slightly concerned about Kakko last year, but after seeing how much he's improved as an overall hockey player this year, I have to give Quinn some credit. He's no developmental guru, but we can't ignore the strides Kakko has taken in his game.

Gauthier obviously doesn't have that level of skill and talent, but you can tell he's a very gifted player when he gets his opportunities. If Quinn prefers to teach them discipline and demand they learn how to play an overall game before lengthening the leash, I think I can live with it if the results are consistent.

Many people are quick to forget the Tortorella days (or just weren't watching that long ago). This team isn't nearly as relentless defensively, but the approach with young kids and demand for discipline is very similar. The team AV inherited knew exactly how to play and I would credit a lot of his success to what Torts did for those players. I can very easily see a similar trajectory with this team in the coming years. Only difference now is they have some truly elite talent at their disposal.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Lundkvist's name comes up less from a desire to trade him, so much as that he falls into that cross section of playing a position where the Rangers have some options, roster formation, and potential value as a trade chip.

But it doesn't necessarily come up because anyone "wants" to trade him.

Would you say it’s accurate that if it came down to it, they’d rather keep Schneider and trade Lundkvist for help?

I know that’s somewhat subjective to the situation

 

[bleedblue94]

Lundkvist's name comes up less from a desire to trade him, so much as that he falls into that cross section of playing a position where the Rangers have some options, roster formation, and potential value as a trade chip.

But it doesn't necessarily come up because anyone "wants" to trade him.

Have to believe the idea of trading him was much more stomachable when ada was a part of the future here

 

[TheBPA]

Lundkvist's name comes up less from a desire to trade him, so much as that he falls into that cross section of playing a position where the Rangers have some options, roster formation, and potential value as a trade chip.

But it doesn't necessarily come up because anyone "wants" to trade him.

Boy would I be hesitant to move him at this point. These draft picks are all lottery tickets, and he looks like a hit and at a valuable position.

I’d much rather move a guy like kravtsov (who I also like) or a future first rounder.

 

[bleedblue94]

I'll be in the vast minority here...there are some things I don't agree with Quinn on, but I don't have a problem with younger kids getting limited ice time...yet. I was slightly concerned about Kakko last year, but after seeing how much he's improved as an overall hockey player this year, I have to give Quinn some credit. He's no developmental guru, but we can't ignore the strides Kakko has taken in his game.

Gauthier obviously doesn't have that level of skill and talent, but you can tell he's a very gifted player when he gets his opportunities. If Quinn prefers to teach them discipline and demand they learn how to play an overall game before lengthening the leash, I think I can live with it if the results are consistent.

Many people are quick to forget the Tortorella days (or just weren't watching that long ago). This team isn't nearly as relentless defensively, but the approach with young kids and demand for discipline is very similar. The team AV inherited knew exactly how to play and I would credit a lot of his success to what Torts did for those players. I can very easily see a similar trajectory with this team in the coming years. Only difference now is they have some truly elite talent at their disposal.

The best years of this franchise recently were the years that torts work ethic and defensive commitment was still imbedded in the players while AV introduced the offensive side. Slowly the ethic and commitment faded away and then we were just left with the AV mess. People dimiss the positive lasting affects of Torts here for a few years after he left.

 

[Trxjw]

It'd be tough to give up Lundkvist in any deal, he's going to be a very good player in this league. It's just a simple matter of organizational strength. The key will be ensuring that you get a very good player back in the deal. I think Larkin is certainly in that mold.

If you could add Larkin, then flip Zibanejad to Colorado for Newhook, you've got Larkin, Chytil, Strome down the middle next season with Newhook on the burner, hopefully ready to replace Strome after he leaves in 2022. Then perhaps you get lucky with Chytil and he shows he can in fact be that top line center who gets you 60-65 points and you can potentially move on from Larkin before he needs a big UFA contract.

The key for the Rangers is going to be creating a steady pipeline of complimentary players who can work with Panarin, Laf, and Kakko.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I’m excited to read the exposé in about 12 months to find out what really happened behind the scenes with DeAngelo

He’s so toxic that even AHL teams want nothing to do with him

Cancel culture is just that powerful now I’m afraid

 

[True Blue]

Very shortly, we are going to need to slide one of the LW's over to RW in order to get guys minutes more than likely. That's going to push Buch or Kaako down.

I'd rather trade Buch for assets now and then use assets in the future to target the right center.

$5.5 is probably fair for Buchnevich,

The Rangers do not really seem to like players changing positions (Defensemen going to off sides, wings to center, wings switching sides, etc.). And why would they when the results are usually less than what his hoped for? They tried a few of these experiments this year and the results were not fantastic. Which leads me to believe that neither Kreider nor Lafreniere are moving to RW.

I think that lafreneire and Kreider do some flipping back and forth for a few years, but ultimately Kreider will slide down to third line. Which then keeps Buchnevich and Kakko on the right.

Trading Buchnevich certainly is a possibility, but that would lead a gigantic crater on the right side. Kakko certainly looks ready for top-6, but being a top liner? Gauhtier has shown improvement but not enough to even be considered a staple on the third line, let alone top-6. Kravstov is far from being ready to man the top-6.

Plus we know that Gorton & JD will be looking to make the playoffs. So trading Buchnevich for prospects and picks will probably not happen as such a move only weakens the starting line up.

 

[bleedblue94]

Where is all this Mike Sullivan love coming from? A couple years ago when Pitt was flailing in the playoffs people were mocking him as an nhl coach, now he's some elite option?

 

[pld459666]

Kravtsov is probably in better game shape than most of than most of the guys we have now.

He's played 50+ games. I'd venture a guess that he EASILY outplays all of the following:

Gauthier
Blackwell
Rooney
Lemieux
Howden
Barron

In 10-11 days, we will find out.

he was eliminated today

 

[NYR Viper]

It'd be tough to give up Lundkvist in any deal, he's going to be a very good player in this league. It's just a simple matter of organizational strength. The key will be ensuring that you get a very good player back in the deal. I think Larkin is certainly in that mold.

If you could add Larkin, then flip Zibanejad to Colorado for Newhook, you've got Larkin, Chytil, Strome down the middle next season with Newhook on the burner, hopefully ready to replace Strome after he leaves in 2022. Then perhaps you get lucky with Chytil and he shows he can in fact be that top line center who gets you 60-65 points and you can potentially move on from Larkin before he needs a big UFA contract.

The key for the Rangers is going to be creating a steady pipeline of complimentary players who can work with Panarin, Laf, and Kakko.

I like the IDEA of this, but if they trade Lundqvist for Larkin only to not re-sign him I'm not going to be a happy camper.

 

[Edge]

Would you say it’s accurate that if it came down to it, they’d rather keep Schneider and trade Lundkvist for help?

I know that’s somewhat subjective to the situation

Very subjective and contextual as well.

I think Lundkvist has that cross section that makes him a more likely candidate, but it also depends on how Schneider comes along.

There's a desire to find the right mix, even if it means potentially having less offensive at the expense of other attributes.

I'd also say there's at least a more open attitude about playing Lundkvist or Schneider on the left side than there was for ADA. Not sure it changes their long-term desires, but I think they are at least slightly more comfortable with the concept with Lundkvist and Schneider.

Have to believe the idea of trading him was much more stomachable when ada was a part of the future here

Maybe pre Schneider. But I don't know if ADA's circumstance is having too much influence right now for them.

ADA was seen as more of a long-term longshot for a while.

Boy would I be hesitant to move him at this point. These draft picks are all lottery tickets, and he looks like a hit and at a valuable position.

I’d much rather move a guy like kravtsov (who I also like) or a future first rounder.

I think if the Rangers move Lundkvist will be it for only a handful of scenarios. And those scenarios would almost certainly involve a high-end talent or someone with the potential to be a high-end talent.

 

[Edge]

Kravtsov is probably in better game shape than most of than most of the guys we have now.

He's played 50+ games. I'd venture a guess that he EASILY outplays all of the following:

Gauthier
Blackwell
Rooney
Lemieux
Howden
Barron

In 10-11 days, we will find out.

he was eliminated today

One would hope.

 

[BKGooner]

Have to believe the idea of trading him was much more stomachable when ada was a part of the future here

Was Tony D. ever part of the long term plan? I always thought both he and Buch would end up as trade bait for roster upgrades particularly at center or LD.

 

[Edge]

I like the IDEA of this, but if they trade Lundqvist for Larkin only to not re-sign him I'm not going to be a happy camper.

I'm gonna guess that if they trade for someone like Larkin, it's because they view him as key piece for the long term.

In Larkin's case you can argue he's a 1A/1B type of player. I think that's a fair argument.

The question is if that's actually the best approach, especially if that A/B tandem includes Chytil.

The idea being that you have centers that are very good, though not elite, but you have elite talent around them.

So if you're targeting Larkin, it's probably with the idea that the Rangers roster will see him in more of that 2018-2019 range, and that the pieces we have in place would compliment his strengths and weaknesses, and vice versa.

 

[Edge]

Was Tony D. ever part of the long term plan? I always thought both he and Buch would end up as trade bait for roster upgrades particularly at center or LD.

I think ADA was always seen as a likely trade candidate, especially once Fox showed what he was all about and Lundkvist became the player the Rangers hoped he'd be.

That only increased once Schneider came into the organization.

Unfortunately, ADA's choices have really blown it for both him and the team.

 

[Kodiak]

Have to believe the idea of trading him was much more stomachable when ada was a part of the future here

I don't think ADA factors in that much. Fox and Trouba are the #1 and #2 RD on this team for the next several years. That makes ADA and Lundkvist potentially more expendable than lesser talents in a weaker organizational position.

 

[Trxjw]

I like the IDEA of this, but if they trade Lundqvist for Larkin only to not re-sign him I'm not going to be a happy camper.

I think it's more likely that if they went after a player like that, they would keep him in the mix. Just a point of discussion to illustrate the bigger piece, which is to have a steady flow of players coming in to supplement the talent.

 

[Ola]

you really, really like Mittlestadt...

If he does waive, it'd be to a contending team IMO. He could make those DJ moves in Vegas.

Yeah, but not because I have that high expectations on him. I just think that he adds something that our top forwards prospects don’t have a ton of and that I think it could be quite tricky to add down the road given how restricted we will be by the cap.

I think that it’s crucial to have that ability to ‘dart into holes’ — with the puck — that guys like Point, Johnson and Gourde gives Tampa for example. Especially if you are a little wing heavy that dimension really makes you so hard to defend against. I also think this is a big reason for why Blackwood have done so well for us. We really got room for someone that can hold on to the puck and take it to the net.

 

[cheech70]

Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Lafreniere-Chytil-Kravtsov

 

[Savant]

I'm gonna guess that if they trade for someone like Larkin, it's because they view him as key piece for the long term.

In Larkin's case you can argue he's a 1A/1B type of player. I think that's a fair argument.

The question is if that's actually the best approach, especially if that A/B tandem includes Chytil.

The idea being that you have centers that are very good, though not elite, but you have elite talent around them.

So if you're targeting Larkin, it's probably with the idea that the Rangers roster will see him in more of that 2018-2019 range, and that the pieces we have in place would compliment his strengths and weaknesses, and vice versa.

On Larkin -

If he isn’t on Detroit’s schedule, he isn’t really on the Rangers schedule either. Not sure if that’s a popular statement or not but it’s true. And the Rangers have less cap than Detroit too. If Yzerman is willing to trade Michigan born, Captain of the team that’s enough of a red flag on its own in my opinion.

This is not a great Rangers team. Extending Larkin probably takes them out of the game for a better center due to economic reasons alone. Maybe there is a better deal out there, maybe there isn’t, but Larkin is not a player that I would swing for the fences for necessarily. Yes it depends on the return but I don’t know how I feel. They aren’t a Larkin away and they still would he to re-sign him soon. I think I am passing on that.

 

[Savant]

Kreider-Zibanejad-Buchnevich
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Lafreniere-Chytil-Kravtsov

Would switch Lafreniere and Kreider. I think.

 

[Edge]

On Larkin -

If he isn’t on Detroit’s schedule, he isn’t really on the Rangers schedule either. Not sure if that’s a popular statement or not but it’s true. And the Rangers have less cap than Detroit too. If Yzerman is willing to trade Michigan born, Captain of the team that’s enough of a red flag on its own in my opinion.

This is not a great Rangers team. Extending Larkin probably takes them out of the game for a better center due to economic reasons alone. Maybe there is a better deal out there, maybe there isn’t, but Larkin is not a player that I would swing for the fences for necessarily. Yes it depends on the return but I don’t know how I feel. They aren’t a Larkin away and they still would he to re-sign him soon. I think I am passing on that.

Personally, I disagree. I think the Rangers are in much more of a prime position to start climbing than Detroit is.

Detroit doesn't have a Panarin, Kreider, Fox, etc. already in place. And, with due respect to their young talent, they don't have a Kakko or Lafreniere either.

I think Detroit needs several pieces before they get to where we are now. Let's even say they are a year or two behind us. That's basically the remaining time on Larkin's contract.

This team wasn't as far along as some believed, but it isn't terribly far away either.

 

[JimmyG89]

Unless Larkin has asked out of Detroit, why would they be moving him? He was just named team captain. He is 24 playing on a good deal and is a 1st line center. Clearly there is a lack of talent around him, but they do have a good prospect group. The only caveat is if he has decided he no longer wants to play there and even that, Yzerman doesn't have to move him at the moment.