Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVI: Artemi, where art thou? In NY.

[Chalfdiggity3]

IF we trade Kreider and Names and IF we don't have to retain or take money back and IF those players don't get more than you think they will. Those are some significant IFs. If trading any of these players was easy, it would be done already.

We cant take money back or retain regardless of any deal right now and we know krieder won't have any retention, its names that there is a possibility. But buying someone out should be their last resort. And yes I get if trading these players were easy we would have but knowing gorton he is looking for the right deal and I'm sure it will happen after the free agency dominoes have fallen and for the teams that have caps pace that missed out on bigger names.

 

[mas0764]

For a center like Patrick that fills a need.

Kreider + lottery protected 1st

or

Kreider + Lundkvist or Andersson

Could get it done. Painful/Risk for both sides.
Pretty good chance Kreider signs with them given Hayes and proximity to home.

I'd do something like this; though frankly I'd rather move Lundkvist than Andersson.

 

[Leetch3]

Strome is your placeholder. If the Rangers are targeting the likes of Zegras and Newhook in the draft, and asking for Poehling in a Kreider trade, they’re at least hedging their bets regarding the current in-house options.

yep thats hedging against the long term options and figuring its better to have too many guys...those aren't moves cause you are concerned about the 2C this upcoming season

 

[mas0764]

Anyone be down for something along the lines of
Kreider + Andersson/Howden+ 1st for RNH and Poolparty?

Too much, don't like RNH enough.

 

[Avery16]

Please get Brian Boyle out of your head.

Have been trying to do this for a while now, but he keeps coming up in here as a signing/trade target for some inexplicable reason.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Some trades I made for fun on CapFriendly last night. Not to be taken seriously.

To Montreal:
Chris Kreider

To NYR:
2020 1st
Artturi Lehkonen

To Toronto:
Pavel Buchnevich
Nils Lundkvist
2020 1st (from Montreal)

To NYR:
Willy Nylander

Also traded Names/Strome to whoever for picks, and bought out Smith.

Final results:

Panarin-Zibanejad-Fast
Chytil-Nylander-Kakko
Lehkonen-Howden-Kravstov
Lemieux-Lias-Fogarty (I guess)

Skjei-Trouba
Staal-ADA
Hajek-Fox
Shatt

I had about 3M in cap space left after everything. I signed Lemieux/ADA/Lehkonen for about ~6M total, it might cost more.

Too much for Nylander

 

[mas0764]

I keep hearing people talk about our center depth and how it is an issue. Is it really though?

It is only an issue if you're trying to win now. We are not. It doesn't matter if Strome and Chytil alternate as 2/3c and Strome/Andersson alternate between 3c/4c. If there are growing pains, oh well. If in 2-3 years we aren't comfortable with Chytil as 2c and/or Andersson as 3c, then yeah it is totally concerning.

For now? I think what we have is absolutely fine and I would be a bit surprised if we make a move for a center.

Without caring about this year, I think we have more question marks moving forward at center than at wing. At wing, we have, under team control long term, Panarin, Kakko, Kravtsov (that's three elite talents), Buch, Lemieux (that's two middle six types), and possibly Andersson and/or Chytil.

At center, we have, under team control long term, Zibanejad (who I think most see as a serviceable #1, but a top-end #2, if we could arrange that), Howden (probably a lower-end #2C, probably better fit at #3C), and maybe Andersson and/or Chytil.

Guys like Strome, Namestnikov, Kreider, and Fast are more expendable and probably not around much beyond this season, barring the unforeseen.

Considering center is universally regarded as more valuable than wing, it would make a ton of sense to move a winger or two for a center of equal or better value. Of course I have no interest in trading Panarin, Kakko, or Kravtsov any time soon, but of the others, I would pull a trade if I felt like I was clearly "winning," it.

Of those wing names, Buchnevich is the one who best fits the description of youth, upside and attractiveness to an acquiring team, but disposability to the Rangers due to non-elite production and available ice time.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Without caring about this year, I think we have more question marks moving forward at center than at wing. At wing, we have, under team control long term, Panarin, Kakko, Kravtsov (that's three elite talents), Buch, Lemieux (that's two middle six types), and possibly Andersson and/or Chytil.

At center, we have, under team control long term, Zibanejad (who I think most see as a serviceable #1, but a top-end #2, if we could arrange that), Howden (probably a lower-end #2C, probably better fit at #3C), and maybe Andersson and/or Chytil.

Guys like Strome, Namestnikov, Kreider, and Fast are more expendable and probably not around much beyond this season, barring the unforeseen.

Considering center is universally regarded as more valuable than wing, it would make a ton of sense to move a winger or two for a center of equal or better value. Of course I have no interest in trading Panarin, Kakko, or Kravtsov any time soon, but of the others, I would pull a trade if I felt like I was clearly "winning," it.

Of those wing names, Buchnevich is the one who best fits the description of youth, upside and attractiveness to an acquiring team, but disposability to the Rangers due to non-elite production and available ice time.

Wingers generally don't get traded for better Centers. Not saying it is impossible to find a GM dumb enough to make the move, but I think it would be difficult.

We have no idea what Chytil or Andersson are or are not at this stage. We will have a better idea this year. If Chytil takes a big step then all the sudden everything has changed. If he doesn't then we can worry. These kids are still just that, kids. They are learning. Although the expectations are increasing each year, they aren't far off enough to where I would write them off or have anything more than a fleeting concern.

 

[mas0764]

The only way we will improve our center situation from the outside is by trading Buchnevich for a similar level center. All the FA are bad. The best hope is that Chytil/Andersson/Howden improve. Or try Kakko at C. Could do Kreider instead of Buchnevich but we won't get someone as good with term that is cheap for an upcoming FA.

I've suggested Kreider, Buch, and one of our middle-range defensive prospects (Lindgren? Hajek? Certainly not Fox or Miller).

A package like that might be enough "now" impact, plus future upside at wing and defense, to entice a REEEEAAAAAALLLL nice center prospect from someone.

Of course I haven't bothered to identify what team might need that package and have an attractive under-23 center with first line upside to spare, but.... I'm just saying the value going out our door seems like it might be enough. If Edmonton was considering 8th overall for Buch+, then certainly that package should be able to at least start a conversation for a prospect of the caliber of a Zegras.

 

[mas0764]

Wingers generally don't get traded for better Centers. Not saying it is impossible to find a GM dumb enough to make the move, but I think it would be difficult.

We have no idea what Chytil or Andersson are or are not at this stage. We will have a better idea this year. If Chytil takes a big step then all the sudden everything has changed. If he doesn't then we can worry. These kids are still just that, kids. They are learning. Although the expectations are increasing each year, they aren't far off enough to where I would write them off or have anything more than a fleeting concern.

It would have to be a scenario where the GM acquiring Buchnevich and/or Kreider would be looking for wing help now, but have a highly regarded center in the pipeline that they view as either farther away, or blocked on their pro team somehow.

Buchnevich (and a defensive prospect thrown in, as I mentioned in a subsequent post) is enough "future" value, plus the "right now" production of Buch and Kreider, that you might be able to get someone to say "This helps me win now, but also has future upside, I can afford to trade this center prospect if I've already got a 1C I like."

If Edmonton had drafted Zegras, for example, I'd say that's a prime target (in fact, I assume that's why on draft day they were willing to discuss moving that pick to us so extensively). What do they need a center for? They have McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH. Zegras doesn't crack that lineup, and yet he's the value selection there at 8. Giving them winger help plus a defender in the pipeline makes all the sense in the world.

I'm merely a fan speculating, I have no inside knowledge, but given that caveat, I'd say I would feel pretty comfortable that SOMEWHERE out there you can find a GM receptive to this pitch. Kreider is a 28 year old, in-his-prime, nearly 30 goal scorer, and I bet you find a GM who believes a change of scenery will turn him into a thirty goal scorer. Buch is probably a future 30 goal scorer (though I'd wager he becomes an occasional low-end 30 goal scorer with far more high-20's... similar to Kreider in many ways). And Lundkvist is a future probably 2nd pair defenseman. You can get a number 1 center for that I bet.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Is there a news story that mentions Poehling? I'm sure they want to hold onto him

Might have come from @Edge.

 

[kovazub94]

Chytil, Andersson or Howden are the plan A options for 2C. Kakko is plan B. Strome and / or Namestnikov will be plan C for the upcoming season.

At this time there’s no cap space for anything else external and, tbh, time to let the next stage of growth to take place before making another “course adjustment “.

 

[Edge]

Might have come from @Edge.

Rangers inquired about him in regards to Kreider.

Not sure if the two teams have reconnected since the draft.

 

[JC704]

FYI - Buchnevich will fetch more in a trade than Kreider. I know it’s risky, but between the two “assets,” Buch is now more redundant to what they have. They’ve drafted talented wingers at No. 9 and No. 2 who predominantly played RW, and each can supplant Buch within two seasons.

A package involving the RFA; Buch, possibly Deangelo, including maybe a draft pick (future first) or two in play, that gets you in the ballpark of a younger, cost-controlled center. Kreider at this point will fetch a Hayes-like return (late 1st + prospect). Not sure it’s worth clearing only $4.6 million in cap space just for the sake of it. Feels like a move that is spinning the tires and makes the playoffs more of an uncertainty.

It’s not a necessity, but the idea of adding a center to Chytil, Lias and Howden is enticing and intriguing. Allows one to shift to wing (Chytil looked great there at times).

My thought process is it’s a hard sell to trade Kreider to get under the cap, get a Hayes-like return, and then start opening night with Staal and Smith around. If you need to retain a bit of salary to move Namestnikov, that’s okay. If you attach an asset or two to clear most/all of Smith’s salary, that’s okay. If you flip Shattenkirk (salary retained) or Deangelo (for presumably a first-round pick or 2nd + prospect), that’s okay. Trading Kreider and expecting a playoff bubble team as currently constructed is a tough sell.

 

[Tawnos]

FYI - Buchnevich will fetch more in a trade than Kreider. I know it’s risky, but between the two “assets,” Buch is now more redundant to what they have. They’ve drafted talented wingers at No. 9 and No. 2 who predominantly played RW, and each can supplant Buch within two seasons.

A package involving the RFA; Buch, possibly Deangelo, including maybe a draft pick (future first) or two in play, that gets you in the ballpark of a younger, cost-controlled center. Kreider at this point will fetch a Hayes-like return (late 1st + prospect). Not sure it’s worth clearing only $4.6 million in cap space just for the sake of it. Feels like a move that is spinning the tires and makes the playoffs more of an uncertainty.

It’s not a necessity, but the idea of adding a center to Chytil, Lias and Howden is enticing and intriguing. Allows one to shift to wing (Chytil looked great there at times).

My thought process is it’s a hard sell to trade Kreider to get under the cap, get a Hayes-like return, and then start opening night with Staal and Smith around. If you need to retain a bit of salary to move Namestnikov, that’s okay. If you attach an asset or two to clear most/all of Smith’s salary, that’s okay. If you flip Shattenkirk (salary retained) or Deangelo (for presumably a first-round pick or 2nd + prospect), that’s okay. Trading Kreider and expecting a playoff bubble team as currently constructed is a tough sell.

I don't think the Rangers have a "goal" of making the playoffs next season. If they do, they do... but I don't think they'll be making any moves aimed at getting there.

 

[JC704]

I don't think the Rangers have a "goal" of making the playoffs next season. If they do, they do... but I don't think they'll be making any moves aimed at getting there.

I respectfully disagree. Adding Panarin and Trouba clearly means the priorities have shifted. Those two on top of Kakko (likely top-six talent off the bat) + Kravtsov/Fox, who will be contributing to start allows them to compete again in October.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Rangers inquired about him in regards to Kreider.

Not sure if the two teams have reconnected since the draft.

Getting Poehling for Kreider would be some Gorts magic.

I don’t see th Habs being particularly interested in that. I would think the ask came from Gorton, and Bergevin wasn’t thrilled about it.

 

[Edge]

Not going to lie, I'm not nearly as enamored with Poehling as some.

His three years in college have often left me...wanting a bit more from him.

 

[Tawnos]

I respectfully disagree. Adding Panarin and Trouba clearly means the priorities have shifted. Those two on top of Kakko (likely top-six talent off the bat) + Kravtsov/Fox, who will be contributing to start allows them to compete again in October.

You should listen to JD talk about it. They're keeping the expectations very low for this year. And I 100% disagree that the priorities are any different than they were before based on what he and Gorton have been saying. The idea that they are now in playoff mode represents a wide misunderstanding of the purpose of the moves they've made this offseason.

 

[Edge]

I don't think the Rangers have a "goal" of making the playoffs next season. If they do, they do... but I don't think they'll be making any moves aimed at getting there.

The impression I've received is that their goal is progress.

Progress from young talent, progress toward getting better reads on players, progress on players assuming more responsibility, progress on getting more buy-in on an organizational system and approach, etc.

If the Rangers make the playoffs, fantastic. But I don't think that will will be the ultimate measuring stick by which they judge this season.

I think they'd rather see impressive progress across the spectrum of young talent on their roster, than a team that sneaks into the playoffs on the backs of vets.

Now if said vets can contribute to progress across the board, and the team can sneak into playoffs, that's a win-win for them.

 

[Tawnos]

The impression I've received is that their goal is progress.

Progress from young talent, progress toward getting better reads on players, progress on players assuming more responsibility, progress on getting more buy-in on an organizational system and approach, etc.

If the Rangers make the playoffs, fantastic. But I don't think that will will be the ultimate measuring stick by which they judge this season.

I think they'd rather see impressive progress across the spectrum of young talent on their roster, than a team that sneaks into the playoffs on the backs of vets.

Now if said vets can contribute to progress across the board, and the team can sneak into playoffs, that's a win-win for them.

Yeah, this is my sense too. And in that sense, I don't see them making moves with the aim being playoffs.

JD stresses patience and how this is a process. We all know that the process isn't quite catalyzed yet, even with the additions of Panarin and Trouba. This season should be a step towards that.

 

[duhmetreE]

Nothing has changed. This is still a process. The youngins still need to develop, we're no where near the peak. We're on the uptrend though... If we make the playoffs, cool. It'd be good experience

 

[Edge]

Yeah, this is my sense too. And in that sense, I don't see them making moves with the aim being playoffs.

JD stresses patience and how this is a process. We all know that the process isn't quite catalyzed yet, even with the additions of Panarin and Trouba. This season should be a step towards that.

I suspect Uncle Larry's article on patience today wasn't an accident or just a random musing he wanted to put out there. I think he's probably heard the word repeated over and over again these last 2-3 days, and that's by design of the people talking to him.

 

[Gardner McKay]

It would have to be a scenario where the GM acquiring Buchnevich and/or Kreider would be looking for wing help now, but have a highly regarded center in the pipeline that they view as either farther away, or blocked on their pro team somehow.

Buchnevich (and a defensive prospect thrown in, as I mentioned in a subsequent post) is enough "future" value, plus the "right now" production of Buch and Kreider, that you might be able to get someone to say "This helps me win now, but also has future upside, I can afford to trade this center prospect if I've already got a 1C I like."

If Edmonton had drafted Zegras, for example, I'd say that's a prime target (in fact, I assume that's why on draft day they were willing to discuss moving that pick to us so extensively). What do they need a center for? They have McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH. Zegras doesn't crack that lineup, and yet he's the value selection there at 8. Giving them winger help plus a defender in the pipeline makes all the sense in the world.

I'm merely a fan speculating, I have no inside knowledge, but given that caveat, I'd say I would feel pretty comfortable that SOMEWHERE out there you can find a GM receptive to this pitch. Kreider is a 28 year old, in-his-prime, nearly 30 goal scorer, and I bet you find a GM who believes a change of scenery will turn him into a thirty goal scorer. Buch is probably a future 30 goal scorer (though I'd wager he becomes an occasional low-end 30 goal scorer with far more high-20's... similar to Kreider in many ways). And Lundkvist is a future probably 2nd pair defenseman. You can get a number 1 center for that I bet.

I guess, I don't know why we are making this move now. I think it is a next year move.

 

[Roo Returns]

Is Mckeg tough?

He's annoying. He was a nuisance in the playoffs.