Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVI: Artemi, where art thou? In NY.

[Tawnos]

So scoring goals and making plays is now tough hockey.

Good to know.

And willingness is something that can be coached. Lets you forget that we had an entire gaggle of players who threw their bodies in front of pucks under Torts.

Just as a thing... I agree somewhat with the idea of willingness here.

But I think three things get conflated in these discussions. 1.) Aggressive, physical hockey. 2.) Being difficult to play against. 3.) Mental fortitude/never quit mentality/ability to overcome adversity

The Rangers during the recent contending window were definitely 2 and 3, but not really 1 at all. I still think of them as being a "tough" team. For #2, they were tough to play against because they used their speed and tenacity to make things very hard on their opponents. While they weren't physically punishing, playing against them was VERY physically demanding. And they had #3 in spades.

Too often in these conversations, one person is saying "tough" to mean one thing and someone argues against them using "tough" to mean another.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Lias, Kakko, ADA, Fast, Kreider......

I think he can be, I hope he can be, too nutty, too hurt, too traded.

 

[Leetch3]

man oh man, kevin hayes would look good as the 2C here right now

hayes here and kreider gone would make this team look pretty dangerous 1-6

bread mika kakko
kravtsov hayes buchnevich

Not for that contract and the blue line without trouba

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I don't want Kakko (although he seems to have a bit of that element to his game), Kravtsov or Panarin having to play that way. Let them worry about scoring goals. The key is to find a guy that can keep up with them and do most of the heavy lifting - getting pucks, screening goalies, going to the crease. Maybe Anderson can develop into that kind of a player. Or maybe the third line has a few guys THAT AREN'T GOONS but can go out and change the tempo of the game if need be. But let's be real, guys pay a heavy price to for making plays in the playoffs. I don't know if that aspect of the game can be coached into a player. You either have it or you don't.

I don't want them to block shots either, but I do want the to fight for pucks and go to high traffic areas to create or cash in on chances.

I expect that from everyone.

I am all for adding a more "traditional" tough and gritty guy as long as they can play and don't cost a fortune.

Going to the crease and screening a goalie can be taught. Kreider wasn't always great at it.

 

[haohmaru]

Just as a thing... I agree somewhat with the idea of willingness here.

But I think three things get conflated in these discussions. 1.) Aggressive, physical hockey. 2.) Being difficult to play against. 3.) Mental fortitude/never quit mentality/ability to overcome adversity

The Rangers during the recent contending window were definitely 2 and 3, but not really 1 at all. I still think of them as being a "tough" team. For #2, they were tough to play against because they used their speed and tenacity to make things very hard on their opponents. While they weren't physically punishing, playing against them was VERY physically demanding. And they had #3 in spades.

Too often in these conversations, one person is saying "tough" to mean one thing and someone argues against them using "tough" to mean another.

I agree with this and I'm not making the "tuffness" argument with the Rangers, either. I think Lias can be that. I think Lemieux certainly is that. Kreider at his best has it in spades. Fast can be relentless when healthy and give up his body. I just think toughness incorporates a whole lot more than fighting which was where this all started.

Toughness (IMHO):

blocking shots
standing in front of the net creating chances for you team
finishing and actively seeking checks
board battles
stepping in for teammates
etc...

 

[Russian Collusion]

We are almost as bad as Jets fans. Only Rangers fan complain about not having enough talent after compiling the most skillful roster we have EVER had. Let's worry about developing top end skill before we start looking for "grit." Grit is always available and could be had at the trade deadline. Panarin, Kakko, Kravstov and even Chytil are a hell of a lot more difficult to find than some grinders.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I don't want them to block shots either, but I do want the to fight for pucks and go to high traffic areas to create or cash in on chances.

I expect that from everyone.

I am all for adding a more "traditional" tough and gritty guy as long as they can play and don't cost a fortune.

Going to the crease and screening a goalie can be taught. Kreider wasn't always great at it.

Agreed. That was all I was saying.

 

[NYR713]

If Kreider stays in the fold...

Panarin-Zib-Kakko
Kreider-Chytil-Kravtsov
Andersson-Howden-Buchnevich
Lemieux-Strome-Fast
Nieves

Need to move Namestnikov, Shattenkirk, Smith and Staal... even with money retained on some. Kreider can stay until TDL or signing a team friendly extension. Staal hardest to move with NMC

Skjei-Trouba
Staal-DeAngelo
Hajek-Fox

 

[bobbop]

Chances of getting Patrick from the Flyers are less than zero. In the slight chance they would decide to move him, they would bury him as far as possible away from Philadelphia.

 

[Off Sides]

I'm not sure how to feel, since I do not know what their direction is. (not just related to toughness but in this example too)

If their idea is to compete this season, meaning they do whatever they think they have to do to make the playoffs, then maybe they do need toughness with some skill level attached.

Yet if their idea is to wait for the bad contracts to go away, and compete after, and they can not rid themselves of them sooner, I think I'd rather see them have the toughness that does not help their skill level as long as that is on short term deals.

 

[Ola]

These are professional athletes. Pressure is part of their lives and has been since they were little kids. Talent and effort is all that matters in the end.

Constructing a whole bunch of what-ifs, to me, is a waste of time and thought.

Sit back, enjoy, and count your blessings that the team we root for has gone from boring to exciting in a matter of a few weeks.

Why worry, now? This is the rosiest future that we have had in a long time.

Or you can be one of those who worries that in 3 years cap problems will destroy us all.

The thing is, I don’t think it’s a ‘what if’, I think an assumption that we won’t have a ready team out of camp must be the starting point.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If Kreider stays in the fold...

Panarin-Zib-Kakko
Kreider-Chytil-Kravtsov
Andersson-Howden-Buchnevich
Lemieux-Strome-Fast
Nieves

Need to move Namestnikov, Shattenkirk, Smith and Staal... even with money retained on some. Kreider can stay until TDL or signing a team friendly extension.

My ideal, semi realistic, rest of the summer would look like this:

Trade Kreider
Trade Namesnikov
Buy out Staal
Waive Smith


Kravstov-Zib-Buchnevich
Panarin-Chytil-Kakko
Andersson-Howden-Lemieux
McKegg/Nieves-Strome-Fast

McKegg/Nieves

Skjei-Trouba
Hajek/Rykov-ADA
Hajek/Rykov-Fox

Shatty spots in for any of the kids if they're struggling or need AHL time.

 

[Tawnos]

I'm not sure how to feel, since I do not know what their direction is. (not just related to toughness but in this example too)

If their idea is to compete this season, meaning they do whatever they think they have to do to make the playoffs, then maybe they do need toughness with some skill level attached.

Yet if their idea is to wait for the bad contracts to go away, and compete after, and they can not rid themselves of them sooner, I think I'd rather see them have the toughness that does not help their skill level as long as that is on short term deals.

Once the moves addressing the cap stuff settle out, I'd imagine everything else goes into a holding pattern. This is still going to be a growth and transition year. The Panarin signing and Trouba acquisition do not change that.

 

[haohmaru]

I don't think I've ever seen a UFA period like this where everything fell off a cliff after day one.

 

[Cag29]

“Not enough toughness” on here means that old folks want to watch more fights in a game, not whether we have more Ws

That’s not true. I watched the Rangers get pushed around for years. In the fighting era until guys like Beck and Fotiu came in to protect their team mates for goon teams like Philthy and Boston among others.
Fighting was exciting at times Domi / Probert but I have adjusted to the new NHL
Their are still players who take liberties ie Ovi. Wilson. Etc.
We needs a few players who can help the young guys feel safe and in turn play with more courage. We have Lemieux and Smith? And Quinn likes a hard nosed style.
Did you see in the finals how the series turned when Chara got hurt. Stl battered Boston with body checks the rest of the way and didn’t have to worry about Chara nailing them. I’m not saying brawl. Just play hard on pucks like Zucc. Don’t play with eggs in your pockets. Be tough to play against hard nosed gritty. Like Adam Graves was. Think anyone was going to push around the 94 cup champion Rangers? No way.
I just want KK and Kravstov to have support that’s all. LGR!
When players stand up for each other they play better.

 

[RGY]

I don't think I've ever seen a UFA period like this where everything fell off a cliff after day one.

I can see us adding Boyle or Brassard once we have moved out Namestnikov and another body.

 

[chosen]

The thing is, I don’t think it’s a ‘what if’, I think an assumption that we won’t have a ready team out of camp must be the starting point.

I don't understand why not being ready right away is an issue. The way the NHL works is a marathon where you have to peak near the end of the season. Only teams that have very little personnel turnover are "ready" right away, and there are very few of those, and they have no advantage over the course of the season.

 

[Off Sides]

Once the moves addressing the cap stuff settle out, I'd imagine everything else goes into a holding pattern. This is still going to be a growth and transition year. The Panarin signing and Trouba acquisition do not change that.

Then I'm for the goons, should they be gone before the holding pattern ends.

 

[haohmaru]

I can see us adding Boyle or Brassard once we have moved out Namestnikov and another body.

Speaking of falling off a cliff.

 

[Russian Collusion]

I think bringing in Brian Boyle is almost necessary at this point.

 

[chosen]

I don't want them to block shots either, but I do want the to fight for pucks and go to high traffic areas to create or cash in on chances.

I expect that from everyone.

I am all for adding a more "traditional" tough and gritty guy as long as they can play and don't cost a fortune.

Going to the crease and screening a goalie can be taught. Kreider wasn't always great at it.

If Zucc can play physical enough (and he does), size is not an issue in necessary toughness.

 

[Zibanejbread]

I don't understand why not being ready right away is an issue. The way the NHL works is a marathon where you have to peak near the end of the season. Only teams that have very little personnel turnover are "ready" right away, and there are very few of those, and they have no advantage over the course of the season.

We could be in last place in January and still have a chance to win the Cup - there's time to get everyone ready.

 

[Avery16]

I can see us adding Boyle or Brassard once we have moved out Namestnikov and another body.

By all means, then let’s hold onto Names

 

[chosen]

That’s not true. I watched the Rangers get pushed around for years. In the fighting era until guys like Beck and Fotiu came in to protect their team mates for goon teams like Philthy and Boston among others.
Fighting was exciting at times Domi / Probert but I have adjusted to the new NHL
Their are still players who take liberties ie Ovi. Wilson. Etc.
We needs a few players who can help the young guys feel safe and in turn play with more courage. We have Lemieux and Smith? And Quinn likes a hard nosed style.
Did you see in the finals how the series turned when Chara got hurt. Stl battered Boston with body checks the rest of the way and didn’t have to worry about Chara nailing them. I’m not saying brawl. Just play hard on pucks like Zucc. Don’t play with eggs in your pockets. Be tough to play against hard nosed gritty. Like Adam Graves was. Think anyone was going to push around the 94 cup champion Rangers? No way.
I just want KK and Kravstov to have support that’s all. LGR!
When players stand up for each other they play better.

When players stand up for themselves it's even better.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Bit late but I like Puljujarvi because obviously his value is in the toilet, and he reminds me of Chris Kreider if he gets it together. What I see as the thing that makes us unlikely to go for him is we’ll already have to give so much ice time to 20 year olds who don’t play complete NHL games yet.

 

[Tawnos]

Then I'm for the goons, should they be gone before the holding pattern ends.

Eh, my only thing is that there are enough young players around where I'd rather give guys shots in the lineup.