Speculation: Roster Building Thread LVI: Artemi, where art thou? In NY.

[RangerBoy]

Larry is mental.

On Tuesday, he wrote the Rangers must keep Kreider to complete the puzzle.

On Wednesday, he wrote the Rangers are a work in progress and they are 2-3 years away maybe 4-5 years away. Their focus is on player development and not wins and losses. People shouldn't go crazy with their high expectations.

If the Rangers are at least 2-3 years away, why should they invest 7 more years into Kreider?

He wrote about the Rangers needing Kreider's size and strength. Did he watch the World Championships when 18 year old Kaapo Kakko toyed with the Canadians?

Darnell Nurse was asking the guys on the bench "who is that guy?".

 

[Avery16]

'Tough" to play against. Do I really have to explain that? Rangers have very little of that outside of Lemieux.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Anyone be down for something along the lines of
Kreider + Andersson/Howden+ 1st for RNH and Poolparty?

NO!!!!!

What is this boards unhealthy obsession with Puljujarvi?

Edmonton or not, Pulju is a risk asset right now. His value is kaput, there is a reason 31 other teams have not acquired him yet when he has asked out and Edm has made him available.

Paajarvi
Yakupov
Puljujarvi

Edmonton has shown a knack for picking the one top 10 bust every draft has. They are literally the George Costanza of draftee evaluation.

And RNH is a UFA next summer same as Kreider. Even swap there. No way 1st + Lias or Brett.

 

[Trxjw]

For the amount of time this board spends talking about it, I'm amazed at how many people still view team toughness as a binary issue of goons vs talent.

 

[nyrage]

If teams should go BPA in the draft, they should have that same strategy in trades.

Yeah, no. Good luck filling a team that way. It's the best approach for drafting because you're thinking long-term and the chance of players developing into NHL players is less, so go for the best guy each time. For trades, you're addressing immediate areas of weakness. You just can't ice 10 defensemen even if they are the BPA in a trade. At some point, you have to target positions.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That patently makes no sense. The whole reason you can go BPA in the draft is because you can use areas of strength to shore up areas of weakness via trade later. It's what trades are for.

Pick the best offer. The one with the most value. The Kreider trade isn't about shoring up a weakness. It's about getting value for a player who is walking for free 12 months from now otherwise

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Need Moar Tuffness!!!

 

[kovazub94]

Okay how about this:

Trades:

Kreider for Kaut + COL 2nd '21 + TOR 3rd '20

Namestnikov ($1m retained) for EDM 2nd '20 + EDM 3rd '21

Buyout:
Smith

Line-up:

Panarin-Zibanejad-Kakko
Buchneich-Chytil-Kravtsov
Andersson-Strome-Lemieux
McKegg/Nieves-Howden-Fast
McKegg/Nieves

Skjei-Trouba
Staal-ADA
Rykov-Shattenkirk

Hank
Georgiev

Total cap hit: $80,193,966

This would seem to be actually possible...

Kaut is not yet ready to be in the lineup?

 

[Tawnos]

Pick the best offer. The one with the most value. The Kreider trade isn't about shoring up a weakness. It's about getting value for a player who is walking for free 12 months from now otherwise

Well, this is the thing though. If the prospect is Bowers, the rest of the return should be stronger than if it was Kaut. For example, for where the Rangers are right now, if they're choosing between Bowers+1st and Kaut+2nd, I choose Bowers+1st. They're equal level returns, but one looks to address an area of weakness and the other doesn't.

 

[haohmaru]

Their "toughness" and size really resided in their bottom 6.

What they did have were guys who would fight to get to tough areas and win battles along the walls. You don't have to be "tough" to do those things, just willing.

Size helps in that regard, but St Louis' top 6 was pretty small.

The willingness to do those things coincides with being tough. It's part of the reason so many players are UNwilling to do it.

O'Reilly played about a tough a series as anyone and he's not a bottom 6. I'll agree to disagree on what hockey toughness is.

 

[DutchShamrock]

Pick the best offer. The one with the most value. The Kreider trade isn't about shoring up a weakness. It's about getting value for a player who is walking for free 12 months from now otherwise

To be fair, that particular strategy is case specific here. @Tawnos answered a comment that was very specific about value in trades. Player for player, you have to target need.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Nobody traded or Re-Signed yet...? Ok..

Best to leave for now because there are some really silly conversations happening.

 

[wafflepadsave]

My fuggin' heart broke when I read this.

Ruff is still coaching the D?!

Another top 10 pick next summer?

 

[nyrage]

NO!!!!!

What is this boards unhealthy obsession with Puljujarvi?
And RNH is a UFA next summer same as Kreider. Even swap there. No way 1st + Lias or Brett.

Not to mention that RNH has a $6m cap value for 2 seasons I think. For some reason, people keep ignoring our cap situation. It's the same obsession with people wanting to add Gusev. We need to shed cap $, not add it.

 

[DutchShamrock]

This was a thing?

Searching Twitter, I saw the rumor was a trade for McCabe. I'll post a tweet if I find one with a verified poster.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The willingness to do those things coincides with being tough. It's part of the reason so many players are UNwilling to do it.

O'Reilly played about a tough a series as anyone and he's not a bottom 6. I'll agree to disagree on what hockey toughness is.

So scoring goals and making plays is now tough hockey.

Good to know.

And willingness is something that can be coached. Lets you forget that we had an entire gaggle of players who threw their bodies in front of pucks under Torts.

 

[kovazub94]

man oh man, kevin hayes would look good as the 2C here right now

hayes here and kreider gone would make this team look pretty dangerous 1-6

bread mika kakko
kravtsov hayes buchnevich

I take Trouba each and every time.

 

[Russian Collusion]

Who did the Blues have? Blais and Maroon known for their hits. The rest aren’t known for toughness but played tough because that’s the system that Berube fostered. You don’t go out and get goons to be tough. You foster the mentality for the personnel you’ve got.

"Grit" is a Canadian dog whistle which means North American. Clearly, every Euro player lacks "grit".

 

[Russian Collusion]

'Tough" to play against. Do I really have to explain that? Rangers have very little of that outside of Lemieux.

Lias, Kakko, ADA, Fast, Kreider......

 

[Anzi]

Just listened to JD's interview with Michael Kay. JD brought up Kakko as a possible center again. Said that there were a lot of scouts saw him as a center. Obviously we should not force him into that position but seems like something that we are least thinking about.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

As far as cap goes, if we buy out Smith, Trade Krieder, give out bridges, keep Trouba < 8, then we’ll have about 1.1-1.5

 

[haohmaru]

So scoring goals and making plays is now tough hockey.

Good to know.

And willingness is something that can be coached. Lets you forget that we had an entire gaggle of players who threw their bodies in front of pucks under Torts.

If that's all you saw O'Reilly doing then I'm just going to assume that you didn't watch the series. And it really wasn't the point I was making at all - he came out ahead on board battles, went to the tough areas in front of the net where you take a beating, finished checks, etc... - narrowing that down to a belittling statement like "so scoring goals and making plays is now tough hockey" doesn't suit you and you know that's not what I was talking about.

Sure, Tortorella coached blocking shots and willingness to sacrifice the body. Anyone that's blocked a shot knows it takes balls to do it - whether your coach asks it of you or not. I consider that an aspect of being a tough player too.

We aren't going to agree on this so let's just drop it.

 

[Russian Collusion]

Who did the Blues have? Blais and Maroon known for their hits. The rest aren’t known for toughness but played tough because that’s the system that Berube fostered. You don’t go out and get goons to be tough. You foster the mentality for the personnel you’ve got.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Even our beloved 2012 "It's Just Paingers"didn't have one gritty player outside of Prust. The team had a gritty persona by the way it played. I think Quinn has taken steps to install that identity into this team. It's because of his philosophy that this team competed every night and exceeded expectations last year.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

So scoring goals and making plays is now tough hockey.

Good to know.

And willingness is something that can be coached. Lets you forget that we had an entire gaggle of players who threw their bodies in front of pucks under Torts.

I don't want Kakko (although he seems to have a bit of that element to his game), Kravtsov or Panarin having to play that way. Let them worry about scoring goals. The key is to find a guy that can keep up with them and do most of the heavy lifting - getting pucks, screening goalies, going to the crease. Maybe Anderson can develop into that kind of a player. Or maybe the third line has a few guys THAT AREN'T GOONS but can go out and change the tempo of the game if need be. But let's be real, guys pay a heavy price to for making plays in the playoffs. I don't know if that aspect of the game can be coached into a player. You either have it or you don't.

 

[chosen]

No, they were not and no one said they were. But you cannot deny the fact that their physical play wore down the opposition. They were the second biggest team in the league. And they undeniably plaid a big boys game.

And then the next year, the smallest, skill team will win. There aren't certain styles needed order to win. It always boils down to talent, effort, and now more than ever, luck.