Roster Building Thread IV (2022-23): Luck of the Irish

[WojtekWolski86]

How would they taint him? Explain. If anything Gallant will appreciate his straight ahead game and ability to win board battles (the anti-Kravstov).

Othmann is Drury's first pick, he's going to play next year unless he looks really awful in camp or gets lazy and content this summer.

He won't be ruined if he's getting used to the NHL. Let him learn the game in a bottom six role while getting 11-13 minutes a night on average and work his way onto special teams during the year.

Cullye and Edstrom are going to need be PKers which both can do.


Drury is a smart guy. He redid the entire scouting department. It's up to him to continue redoing the infrastructure including sacking Ciaccao.

1. Double standard of accountability between vets and young players. Laf and Kaako can have the game of their life and take a penalty or turn the puck over then all the sudden they only play 10 minutes.


Meanwhile Kreider is floating around, Trouba and Goodrow are making boneheaded plays and let's not even talk about the star players.

This organization is so focused on players "learning defense" or whatever cliche while not allowing them to feast on their strengths. That's why Kaako and Laf were tentative with the puck while Buch and Chytil took 5 years to blossom. By the time these kids meet expectations our contract decisions will price them off the club while we pay Trouba for replacement level performance.

 

[duhmetreE]

Not getting talked about enough because of recent events is how average Fox & Zibanejad have been. Fox in particular.

I mention it often but we're not allowed to criticize certain players. Fox has been lackluster since the ASG. Zibs has been lackluster since he was rejoined to Kreiders hip...

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Kreider Zibs Kakko

If you want Kreider and Zibs stapled together, this is the only combo that works.

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Panarin Tro Kane

How long of a leash do they get? They will get their practice time and a few more games before Gallant thinks of breaking them apart. Panarin Tro Tank was working....

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Laffy Chytil Tank

Laffy has been setting up Chytil with many chances, doesn't get any credit for it. Chytil has gone beyond ice cold. Laffy now gets another option and hopefully Tank could teach them a thing or two.

 

[Machinehead]

I think 'range' still matters a lot in a defenseman. I look at Kevin Shattenkirk as an example of an offensive dman that is just flat out bad defensively because they lack the physical tools. Shatty couldn't get anyone off the puck. And he didn't have enough reach (nor was he as clever as players like Fox or Zibby) when it came to tying up opposing sticks legally when defending.

It's why K'Andre Miller will always be capable of making defensive plays that Jones never will. It still helps to have size as a defenseman, just matters a heck of a lot less than it used to.

And I agree that there's an old-school "Run-game first" mentality of low risk defenseman leading to a bias towards players like Stu Bickel and Ben Harpur and away from guys like Adam Clendening or Gavin Bayreuther. Teams don't like having offensive defensemen on the third pairing. Look at the list of top scoring defenseman by ice time and check how often theyre playing- with the exception of DeAngelo they're pretty much all playing in the top 4 at least.

So the old school bias hurt Jones, Reunanen, Clendening, Poeck, Diaz over the years.

I get that. Defending is still important and reach does help. But you talk about guys like Miller that can actually defend.

My problem is you have guys that are just worse players across the board getting the spot because they're bigger. I know "analytics bad" but I just can't swallow that Jones is less effective Schneider anywhere on the ice. Given the cap constraints, I don't know if there was ever an option besides Schneider but his leash has been obnoxious. He has carte blanche for reasons I don't see. Don't get me started on Harpur who Jones is just literally a better defender than basically by default.

You're right about the top 4 thing. If our bottom pair was passable and got fat on PK minutes, they wouldn't be any worse than anybody else's. They're not passable. I'm interested in seeing large-sample results from Mikkola and Schneider when healthy, but one injury gives us a pair that frankly, I don't think would be good in the minors.

Harpur is unspeakable and Schneider loses his man like my dad loses his keys. I know people see potential in Schneider but we're contending *now*, undeniably at this point, and he's bad at things you can't do drills for. I don't know if an NHL game is in his mind. This level outpaces his instincts.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Hopefully a dman


Fox misses Lindgren....happens every time he's out

He's been pedestrian for about 2 months now...Lindgren being hurt is a convenient cop out.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

1. Double standard of accountability between vets and young players. Laf and Kaako can have the game of their life and take a penalty or turn the puck over then all the sudden they only play 10 minutes.


Meanwhile Kreider is floating around, Trouba and Goodrow are making boneheaded plays and let's not even talk about the star players.

This organization is so focused on players "learning defense" or whatever cliche while not allowing them to feast on their strengths. That's why Kaako and Laf were tentative with the puck while Buch and Chytil took 5 years to blossom. By the time these kids meet expectations our contract decisions will price them off the club while we pay Trouba for replacement level performance.

I wouldn't call Berube a progressive coach by any means.

I don't think Othmann is going to have to worry about Gallant for a majority of his career. While it would be nice if the Rangers can actually have a coach hang around for a decade+, I doubt very much by the time Othmann's ELC is up that Gallant is still here. He has a very short shelf life.

Good Rangers coaches last around 5 seasons since the lockout. The Rangers really haven't had a long term coach since Emile Francis back in the day. A lot of 3-5 year runs.

 

[Machinehead]

It's Girardi all over again, because that's something this board needed replaced. Thanks, universe.

I remember arguing about this in 2015, 2016. Everyone says "well if you don't notice a defenseman, he's doing his job" and it was around that time I finally had enough and said "you know, that's a load of f***ing bollocks!"

That was Girardi. He never made OMG mistakes (except for Williams and Ovechkin, we've all been there). It was usually Staal making the "scream at your tv" waltzes out of position. You guys remember Callahan's goal for Tampa in his first game back at MSG.

With Girardi, it was just constant being outplayed before eventually getting trapped behind the net.

That's Schneider.

He doesn't make mistakes. He makes people feel safe and go "wow, can't believe he's that reliable at 21." Meanwhile, we're constantly the second best team with him deployed and it's usually his man that causes the breakdown because he's behind the net, or the gap was too big, or he was in the right spot but doing nothing because he's watching the puck (his specialty on the PK, shoutout to @Raspewtin and "Schneider checking a ghost"). And yet, the sequence was just long enough that we can blame Chytil for not backchecking.

 

[Machinehead]

In Schneider's defense, this team does too much puck-watching bubble hockey on both sides of special teams.

That, I legitimately put on coaching. Both PP and PK have gotten worse with better personnel.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

It's Girardi all over again, because that's something this board needed replaced. Thanks, universe.

I remember arguing about this in 2015, 2016. Everyone says "well if you don't notice a defenseman, he's doing his job" and it was around that time I finally had enough and said "you know, that's a load of f***ing bollocks!"

That was Girardi. He never made OMG mistakes (except for Williams and Ovechkin, we've all been there). It was usually Staal making the "scream at your tv" waltzes out of position. You guys remember Callahan's goal for Tampa in his first game back at MSG.

With Girardi, it was just constant being outplayed before eventually getting trapped behind the net.

That's Schneider.

He doesn't make mistakes. He makes people feel safe and go "wow, can't believe he's that reliable at 21." Meanwhile, we're constantly the second best team with him deployed and it's usually his man that causes the breakdown because he's behind the net, or the gap was too big, or he was in the right spot but doing nothing because he's watching the puck (his specialty on the PK, shoutout to @Raspewtin and "Schneider checking a ghost"). And yet, the sequence was just long enough that we can blame Chytil for not backchecking.

Schneider is like Troyba from 6 years ago. Remember this board foaming at the mouth for a RHD like him to play with McD? Well we waited too long to pull that trigger. Let's not make the same mistake with Schneider and Miller who could be a great shutdown combo.

Schneider and Miller would benefit greatly from a system instead they are usually left on islands in the worst possible spot whenever it's their D partner or the 3F failing to do their part. Not saying they haven't made mistakes (its plenty) I think at times they are victims of doing too much.

 

[EdJovanovski]

It's Girardi all over again, because that's something this board needed replaced. Thanks, universe.

I remember arguing about this in 2015, 2016. Everyone says "well if you don't notice a defenseman, he's doing his job" and it was around that time I finally had enough and said "you know, that's a load of f***ing bollocks!"

That was Girardi. He never made OMG mistakes (except for Williams and Ovechkin, we've all been there). It was usually Staal making the "scream at your tv" waltzes out of position. You guys remember Callahan's goal for Tampa in his first game back at MSG.

With Girardi, it was just constant being outplayed before eventually getting trapped behind the net.

That's Schneider.

He doesn't make mistakes. He makes people feel safe and go "wow, can't believe he's that reliable at 21." Meanwhile, we're constantly the second best team with him deployed and it's usually his man that causes the breakdown because he's behind the net, or the gap was too big, or he was in the right spot but doing nothing because he's watching the puck (his specialty on the PK, shoutout to @Raspewtin and "Schneider checking a ghost"). And yet, the sequence was just long enough that we can blame Chytil for not backchecking.

I remember Schneider was considered untouchable by so many fans when discussing making trades. Don’t get why he’s so highly thought of

 

[haohmaru]

I remember Schneider was considered untouchable by so many fans when discussing making trades. Don’t get why he’s so highly thought of

Because he's only 21 years old and rarely is the topic of conversation.

 

[Kravtsov420]

Because he''s an amazing CHL player, he should get handed the spot before landing in NY and if he sucks and ets traded for garbage and a 7th in 3 years, it's because of the coach, a former star winger. E-a-r-n it.

Is this you Glen Sather ?

That strategy seems to work for every team but us. New Jersey seems to be doing pretty well with that strategy, Ottawa seems to be doing well with that strategy. But let’s give the ice time to the guys that turn the puck over more than CHL players because we paid them 11 mil and they get free reign to do whatever they want out there. You’re under 23?! HOW DARE YOU THINK YOURE GOING TO PLAY AHEAD OF PLAYERS WHO HAVE SENIORITY BASED ON LAZINESS.

And also let’s see…. Anderson, lundkvist, Kravtsov, Kakko, laf…., etc

Yea that’s not a concerning pattern, it’s all the players fault!!! I’m tired of doing it the way we have been, maybe for once, let’s try it the way every other team does it???

Awful awful take, get some new Zaza bob

 

[haohmaru]

It's Girardi all over again, because that's something this board needed replaced. Thanks, universe.

I remember arguing about this in 2015, 2016. Everyone says "well if you don't notice a defenseman, he's doing his job" and it was around that time I finally had enough and said "you know, that's a load of f***ing bollocks!"

That was Girardi. He never made OMG mistakes (except for Williams and Ovechkin, we've all been there). It was usually Staal making the "scream at your tv" waltzes out of position. You guys remember Callahan's goal for Tampa in his first game back at MSG.

With Girardi, it was just constant being outplayed before eventually getting trapped behind the net.

That's Schneider.

He doesn't make mistakes. He makes people feel safe and go "wow, can't believe he's that reliable at 21." Meanwhile, we're constantly the second best team with him deployed and it's usually his man that causes the breakdown because he's behind the net, or the gap was too big, or he was in the right spot but doing nothing because he's watching the puck (his specialty on the PK, shoutout to @Raspewtin and "Schneider checking a ghost"). And yet, the sequence was just long enough that we can blame Chytil for not backchecking.

Girardi didn't play his first NHL game until he was 22.

 

[Machinehead]

Schneider is like Troyba from 6 years ago. Remember this board foaming at the mouth for a RHD like him to play with McD? Well we waited too long to pull that trigger. Let's not make the same mistake with Schneider and Miller who could be a great shutdown combo.

Schneider and Miller would benefit greatly from a system instead they are usually left on islands in the worst possible spot whenever it's their D partner or the 3F failing to do their part. Not saying they haven't made mistakes (its plenty) I think at times they are victims of doing too much.

Miller and Schneider wouldn't be able to move the puck from the circle to the blueline.

Miller, I like, but he should never, ever, ever, ever be the transition guy on his pair.

Schneider's biggest problem is that the puck needs to be moved for him and our puck movers are on the right side (Fox, and I guess Trouba who would be second-best clearing a low bar).

 

[Machinehead]

Girardi didn't play his first NHL game until he was 22.

Fair.

You have to add the caveat that a Schneider right now at 21 reminds me of Girardi at 27. That's obviously a huge difference.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Schneider is actually pretty good. He’s more than just “not noticeable.” Frankly, he’s often very noticeable, particularly with his offensive instincts. He does have some bad turnovers and sometimes the puck becomes a hot potato, but I don’t know if I would say he’s been given “carte blanche” and has been below average. He’s a very good third pairing defenseman and he’s on an ELC.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Fair.

You have to add the caveat that a Schneider right now at 21 reminds me of Girardi at 27. That's obviously a huge difference.

I think you're conflating what a player does and what he's capable of doing too much with Miller and Schneider in particular. We've seen dmen who played very similarly here go elsewhere and be much more successfully, playing very differently. Skjei and Pionk come to mind immediately. Even Girardi was better with Tampa.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

There are plenty of things to complain about but we’re complaining about Braden Schneider now? A kid on his ELC doing more than enough for his role, doing whatever the team asks him to do, who is the first player 31 GMs and their fans ask for in a trade. I don’t see the reason to put Schneider in the complaints category at all, or the reason to criticize him in order to lift Jones, who should have gotten another look for sure, but it has nothing to do with Schneider.

 

[Machinehead]

We always blame "the system" which is a platitude at this point or the forwards.

We have one defenseman on our roster I would bet on hitting the broad side of a building three feet in front of him with a pass.

I don't know what games you guys watch sometimes. The forwards going out of their way to fly the zone was two coaches ago. Trocheck basically played defense yesterday.

 

[EdJovanovski]

We always blame "the system" which is a platitude at this point or the forwards.

We have one defenseman on our roster I would bet on hitting the broad side of a building three feet in front of him with a pass.

I don't know what games you guys watch sometimes. The forwards going out of their way to fly the zone was two coaches ago. Trocheck basically played defense yesterday.

I laugh when people say we play like “the Harlem globetrotters” or an “all star team”. I wish we did lmfao, we play like cavemen.

 

[Machinehead]

I think you're conflating what a player does and what he's capable of doing too much with Miller and Schneider in particular. We've seen dmen who played very similarly here go elsewhere and be much more successfully, playing very differently. Skjei and Pionk come to mind immediately. Even Girardi was better with Tampa.

Were they more successful tho?

Skjei is an NHL defenseman and that's basically the nicest and worst thing you can say about him. What changed? Girardi went from -11 corsi rel to only -4, congrats on the sex. Don't know where the Pionk thing is coming from. He had like a third of a good season in Winnipeg and then went back to business as usual. He's still arguably the worst defensive player in the NHL and has been in that discussion since he entered the league.

Fox is a god, Miller met expectations, and Lindgren exceeded expectations. There's no hoodoo on defensemen here, beyond the team overloading on ones that can't move the puck.

 

[Machinehead]

I laugh when people say we play like “the Harlem globetrotters” or an “all star team”. I wish we did lmfao, we play like cavemen.

You're absolutely right. The team certainly shops for skill but they don't play skilled.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I laugh when people say we play like “the Harlem globetrotters” or an “all star team”. I wish we did lmfao, we play like cavemen.

From what I've been hearing about the All-Star games recently, I pray they NEVER play like an all star team.

 

[effen]

Rangers D were backing in before Ruff arrived.

Why let facts get in the way of blaming random 60 year old men who never touch the ice?

 

[Machinehead]

Why let facts get in the way of blaming random 60 year old men who never touch the ice?

60??????

Lindy Ruff was 60 when Hasek was his goaltender!

 

[DanielBrassard]

I figured out why Schneider looks like he doesn't make mistakes: