Roster Building Thread IV (2022-23): Luck of the Irish

[Machinehead]

I figured out why Schneider looks like he doesn't make mistakes:

View attachment 663779

We'll hear about how he influences that. Don't even distribute the ammo.

 

[Machinehead]

Gallant is another one. Dude is 59. He looks like crypt he was buried in is 59.

 

[effen]

60??????

Lindy Ruff was 60 when Hasek was his goaltender!

He's 63 now. Though yeah he's been 63 since he was 50.

 

[Machinehead]

He's 63 now. Though yeah he's been 63 since he was 50.

That's like Brian Elliott.

Can you believe he's 37 and still goaltending?

He was 37 with the Flyers in 2014.

 

[TheDirtyH]

We always blame "the system" which is a platitude at this point or the forwards.

We have one defenseman on our roster I would bet on hitting the broad side of a building three feet in front of him with a pass.

I don't know what games you guys watch sometimes. The forwards going out of their way to fly the zone was two coaches ago. Trocheck basically played defense yesterday.

And we have maybe one forward a game (never the same guy) who can receive a pass at all or stop a puck that isn't perfect, or isn't skating directly into a pinching defensemen. It's not that the forwards are flying the zone, but they're identical to the defensemen in that they are constantly beat to pucks, constantly chasing guys around without being able to disrupt anything, and are also constantly failing to complete passes to anyone (or even just clear the blueline without control).

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

That's like Brian Elliott.

Can you believe he's 37 and still goaltending?

He was 37 with the Flyers in 2014.

the Andy Greene syndrome. A couple years older than me but looks like he can be my dad

I laugh when people say we play like “the Harlem globetrotters” or an “all star team”. I wish we did lmfao, we play like cavemen.

they play with the intensity and pace of an all-star game 3v3 thats for sure

 

[Raspewtin]

And we have maybe one forward a game (never the same guy) who can receive a pass at all or stop a puck that isn't perfect, or isn't skating directly into a pinching defensemen. It's not that the forwards are flying the zone, but they're identical to the defensemen in that they are constantly beat to pucks, constantly chasing guys around without being able to disrupt anything, and are also constantly failing to complete passes to anyone (or even just clear the blueline without control).

they just........seem to really struggle with the absolute fundamentals of playing NHL hockey but they do not at all struggle with complicated set plays, crazy passes, or rush formations. I don't know who said this on this board but it's just so f***ing true.

 

[bobbop]

Remember when the D backing in the tops of the circles was a Lindy Ruff plot to make the Rangers terrible defensively, and then they continued to do it long after he was gone, including under defensive genius Jacques Martin?

Ruff's evil transcends employment, apparently. Mind control over players who weren't even with the organization!


Just another guy for Quinn to ruin. smh

The defense was more accomplished under Jacques Martin than any other recent coach. Certainly better than Gord (Radar) Murphy

 

[Machinehead]

And we have maybe one forward a game (never the same guy) who can receive a pass at all or stop a puck that isn't perfect, or isn't skating directly into a pinching defensemen. It's not that the forwards are flying the zone, but they're identical to the defensemen in that they are constantly beat to pucks, constantly chasing guys around without being able to disrupt anything, and are also constantly failing to complete passes to anyone (or even just clear the blueline without control).

It can't be everyone.

I used to believe it was coaching but how many coaches have we gone through with the same complaints?

 

[DanielBrassard]

It can't be everyone.

I used to believe it was coaching but how many coaches have we gone through with the same complaints?

At least 3

 

[duhmetreE]

We always blame "the system" which is a platitude at this point or the forwards.

We have one defenseman on our roster I would bet on hitting the broad side of a building three feet in front of him with a pass.

I don't know what games you guys watch sometimes. The forwards going out of their way to fly the zone was two coaches ago. Trocheck basically played defense yesterday.

If your system needs everyone to be Tom Brady to work, it's the system and not the personnel.

Puck movement is a team game. The team does not put itself in position to move the puck effectively. Fox's brain is the outlier. KAMs mobility is the outlier.

You're mixing up individual talent with puck movement imo. It's easier to execute a plan if you actually have one. You're taught from a young age, you will never outskate the puck. Our plan right now leaves defenders on islands. Sometimes individual talent overcomes it. Most of the time we get smothered in our dated approach. You cannot expect to ice a team of 6 Adam Fox's to overcome our systemic shortcomings.

Our systems in place have been the same for a while now. AV was the outlier somewhat, in that we used the middle of the ice for breakouts along with the stretch pass. We were still a atrocious defensively. But Torts, Quinn and Gallant, generally speaking, have the same system/style.

 

[TheDirtyH]

It can't be everyone.

I used to believe it was coaching but how many coaches have we gone through with the same complaints?

Well my theory is one you probably won't like, but it has to do with those 'intangibles' like 'leadership' and 'culture.'

I just went back and watched the first three shifts from last night.

First up, was Kreider-Zibanejad-Tarasenko with Mikkola-Fox. Off the face-off, Boston controls and dumps the puck on Mikkola's side. Mikkola beats his man, Nosek, to the puck moving along the boards around the net. Tarasenko is the first forward back into the zone, and literally glides over the blueline to the slot (where no one is) as fox follows his man behind the net. As Mikkola is hounded by Nosek, he can only play the puck up the boards, and the only player there is Orlov (Tarasenko is closest, making a wide turn towards him as he watches the puck leave Mikkola's stick and without having taken a stride since he entered the zone.) Kreider is covering F3 for the Bruins, Fox has F2 coming around the net, and F1 is pressuring Mikkola. Tarasenko is covering no one, providing no possible outlet, and gliding worthlessly around.

The shift actually gets worse, but what's notable throughout are three things. Perpetual puck-watching. Wide turns rather than stops and starts. And no one having reading the play at all in order to even attempt to anticipate what could happen next and where they should be heading.

Second shift with Panarin's line is basically identical.

Third shift, the only difference is that Chytil makes an active read when he sees a Bruin rim the puck and beats the second forechecker there to clear it from the zone. Then, when the Bruins come back up, he and Lafreniere hound Pastrnak into a turnover in the neutral zone.

None of those shifts were 'successful' but only the third shift managed not to feed the Bruins momentum and let the Bruins essentially spend the opening part of the game warming up. Against a team like that, on the road, given the schedule and all else, every line should be prioritizing making life harder on the Bruins and simply not getting stuck in their end. You play that game aiming at a 2-1 score, and you humble yourselves to what that entails. Our top players are such coasters with no commitment to playing that kind of way. And if it doesn't always blow up in their faces, it does hand the other team lots of momentum, and absolutely nukes your own potential to build any.

The fact that our top two lines absolutely flat-lined their first two shifts while the kids actively tried to play the right way and commit to the shift in front of them is also not surprising to me, and is particularly damning.

 

[Machinehead]

If your system needs everyone to be Tom Brady to work, it's the system and not the personnel.

Puck movement is a team game. The team does not put itself in position to move the puck effectively. Fox's brain is the outlier. KAMs mobility is the outlier.

You're mixing up individual talent with puck movement imo. It's easier to execute a plan if you actually have one. You're taught from a young age, you will never outskate the puck. Our plan right now leaves defenders on islands. Sometimes individual talent overcomes it. Most of the time we get smothered in our dated approach. You cannot expect to ice a team of 6 Adam Fox's to overcome our systemic shortcomings.

Our systems in place have been the same for a while now. AV was the outlier somewhat, in that we used the middle of the ice for breakouts along with the stretch pass. We were still a atrocious defensively. But Torts, Quinn and Gallant, generally speaking, have the same system/style.

Tom Brady? I want them to do the most fundamental elements better.

I understand the criticisms of the system but I can't bring myself to believe we hired a coach that can't coach basic hockey three times in a row.

 

[duhmetreE]

The defense was more accomplished under Jacques Martin than any other recent coach. Certainly better than Gord (Radar) Murphy

100%.

The structure, positioning and stickwork/sticks in lanes was stellar under Martin. I was expecting him to stay on with Gallant.

I like Gallant as the leader, in a way. I wish the league was more open to changing assistants with the same head coach, similar to the NFL. Brunette saved Ruff IMO. Jersey doesn't find the same success without Brunette.

Tom Brady? I want them to do the most fundamental elements better.

I understand the criticisms of the system but I can't bring myself to believe we hired a coach that can't coach basic hockey three times in a row.

the point is you can't make passes to people who aren't open/or are covered. There are outliers like Fox and/or KAM...

It is basic hockey. It's just not a form of modern day hockey.

The structure in place does not put the team in position to move the puck effectively because the gameplan is to chip it out, get it in and forecheck.

 

[duhmetreE]

A 1st and 2 2nds for Chychrun....

that's a major failure on the org. You get a staple piece, top2D, for 3 more playoffs runs.. ( at least ). We're giving that up for rentals.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Tom Brady? I want them to do the most fundamental elements better.

I understand the criticisms of the system but I can't bring myself to believe we hired a coach that can't coach basic hockey three times in a row.

Just look at the difference in one shift here between Bergeron-Marchand-Debrusk and Panarin-Trocheck-Kane.

First as we enter the zone:

Bergeron, as soon as he saw Trocheck coming up the center ice with the puck and with speed, took two extra strides to close on him by the time Panarin crossed the blueline with the puck. Marchand and Debrusk both kept the feet moving to stay close in formation.

Panarin makes a worthless pass to Trocheck who is smothered and stripped by Bergeron. Bergeron locks up Trocheck's stick as his defenseman corrals the puck towards the corner. Paranin watches at a standstill, gliding towards the three of them aimlessly. The Bruins defensemen settles the puck, Bergeron releases Trocheck and makes his stick clearly available for a short shuttle behind the net:

Trocheck and Pararin follow Bergeron around the net with wide, slow turns. Kane slowly dips back up high. Bergeron gives the pass to Lindholm at the halfwall who has plenty of time to see Debrusk cutting towards him and he slides an easy outlet past Panarin and Kane who are upright, with their sticks lazily hanging at their sides.

Debrusk takes two strides to completely separate from the 3 Ranger forwards who watch him go. Marchand and he cut in opposite directions to back off the Rangers defense who need to cover for the possibility of a drop pass and then a cross ice play. And as they reach the goal line, here's our coverage (remember to compare with the first clip!):

Bruins have abundantly more time and space, and almost all of it is to do with what's (not) happening behind them. The Rangers forwards glide back over the blueline, Debrusk challenges his man one on one before rimming it around to the other side. His team gets a change, our forwards have run into our defensemen, and another bullshit sequence in our zone is ready to go.

 

[Machinehead]

3333333333

Well my theory is one you probably won't like, but it has to do with those 'intangibles' like 'leadership' and 'culture.'

I just went back and watched the first three shifts from last night.

First up, was Kreider-Zibanejad-Tarasenko with Mikkola-Fox. Off the face-off, Boston controls and dumps the puck on Mikkola's side. Mikkola beats his man, Nosek, to the puck moving along the boards around the net. Tarasenko is the first forward back into the zone, and literally glides over the blueline to the slot (where no one is) as fox follows his man behind the net. As Mikkola is hounded by Nosek, he can only play the puck up the boards, and the only player there is Orlov (Tarasenko is closest, making a wide turn towards him as he watches the puck leave Mikkola's stick and without having taken a stride since he entered the zone.) Kreider is covering F3 for the Bruins, Fox has F2 coming around the net, and F1 is pressuring Mikkola. Tarasenko is covering no one, providing no possible outlet, and gliding worthlessly around.

The shift actually gets worse, but what's notable throughout are three things. Perpetual puck-watching. Wide turns rather than stops and starts. And no one having reading the play at all in order to even attempt to anticipate what could happen next and where they should be heading.

Second shift with Panarin's line is basically identical.

Third shift, the only difference is that Chytil makes an active read when he sees a Bruin rim the puck and beats the second forechecker there to clear it from the zone. Then, when the Bruins come back up, he and Lafreniere hound Pastrnak into a turnover in the neutral zone.

None of those shifts were 'successful' but only the third shift managed not to feed the Bruins momentum and let the Bruins essentially spend the opening part of the game warming up. Against a team like that, on the road, given the schedule and all else, every line should be prioritizing making life harder on the Bruins and simply not getting stuck in their end. You play that game aiming at a 2-1 score, and you humble yourselves to what that entails. Our top players are such coasters with no commitment to playing that kind of way. And if it doesn't always blow up in their faces, it does hand the other team lots of momentum, and absolutely nukes your own potential to build any.

The fact that our top two lines absolutely flat-lined their first two shifts while the kids actively tried to play the right way and commit to the shift in front of them is also not surprising to me, and is particularly damning.

I definitely think the team's culture is a huge problem.

What I don't like is that it always defaults back to laying all the blame at the feet of the "country club vets" while glorifying nobodies who look like they're trying hard.

Sorry, but if 35 point plugs like Lafreniere and Chytil are the ideal of how we should be playing, we're missing the point.

Without "floaters" like Kreider and Zibanejad, this board would be hedging their bets on an outside chance at Bedard. I know we all like to wax poetic about giving Laf and Kakko the keys like Hughes got the keys, but Hughes is good. Sorry.

When we were down against Pittsburgh and Carolina, soft vegan soyboy Mika reached into Hell and dragged this team to the ECF by their hair, so respectfully, bullshit.

I've been hearing that it's the country club vets all my life. I would love to see an actual list of the ones that were bad. Poor Eric Lindros who almost led the Wolfpack to the playoffs on nine braincells? Scott Gomez who played his best hockey for the Rangers and then landed us Ryan McDonagh? Brad Richards who was the x-factor in every game 7 he played in?

When I think of the last Rangers team that had the identity everyone craves, I think of Dubinsky and Callahan. Sorry, but I'm already bored. Sick of the grinders. Sick of glorifying it while every talented player is a "coaster." That's what the organization gaslights the fans and themselves into thinking.

I know @EdJovanovski is a nutball, but he's absolutely right today. All everyone does is talk about how we're the Globetrotters and I wish we were the Globetrotters. Some teams just don't have a good roster. Looking at the names on the paper, and looking at the performance, this is the worst offensive team I've ever seen. They're like watching paint dry.

I'm so sick of "the Rangers are too soft." The Rangers are too boring. Have been since the f***ing GAG Line retired.

What do I think is the problem with the culture? The organization is safe. They're safe to the point where it makes you nauseous. More than one offensive defenseman on the same roster?!?!?! Slow down there, cowboy! Promising young prospect? Benched if you make a mistake. Learn to play the right way first. The coach? With the exception of Quinn, always the most established name available. Hell, look at our lines! Safe, safe, and safe. The Kids are a security blanket from last year's playoffs. Kreider-Zibanejad is a security blanket from 2018. Pararnin-Kane is a security blanket from f***ing 2016!!! Lindgren-Fox: security blanket. Everything is safe. Same system, same tactics, same development, same approach, couldn't even rebuild without having a safety valve in Panarin to sell some tickets.

When this inevitably creates and entire roster of Taylor Pyatt's and maybe Brandon Dubinsky's on a good day, the Rangers go out and add the talent they don't have an expect them too freelance the Rangers out of the hole the Rangers dug, with no offensive gameplan because offense is unsafe.

And then we have the audacity to be mad when the talented players look ineffective and slow, get caught out of position, and have to force things on an organization that has been playing chip and chase Nyquil hockey since the 80's.

The 2011-12 team had that "identity" because they went all in on caveman hockey, and I guess that was better in some respects, although that team got absolutely f***ED by the Devils, again, sorry.

Other than that the, Rangers have been trying to super-glue talented players onto an organization that wants to play no-forward-passes 6v6 shinny FOR DECADES, and we blame the talent instead of the cowards running the team.

 

[Fitzy]

I watch NYR's games and the other games around the league, and there's nothing stylistically wrong with how we play the game or generate offense.

90% of the issue this season has been the transition game which has been the worst I've seen from the team since they went on that 23 game winless streak against the Devils at the beginning of the century. Once we're steadily in the offensive zone with possession or in the defensive zone defending, we're a good team. But when it comes to getting from zone to zone safely, that's our issue.

 

[Machinehead]

We took a unanimous 1st overall and a 2nd overall widely regarded as the most NHL-ready player in the draft, and we turned them into Arron Asham and Marcel Hossa....MARCEL!!!!

Meanwhile, somehow we don't bump and grind enough and the forwards carrying the team should play more like Alexi Scissorhands.

Tired of it.

 

[tomobson]

A 1st and 2 2nds for Chychrun....

that's a major failure on the org. You get a staple piece, top2D, for 3 more playoffs runs.. ( at least ). We're giving that up for rentals.

Chytil almost killed Chychrun last game they played...Chytil. He will not stay healthy.

 

[TheDirtyH]

3333333333

I definitely think the team's culture is a huge problem.

What I don't like is that it always defaults back to laying all the blame at the feet of the "country club vets" while glorifying nobodies who look like they're trying hard.

Sorry, but if 35 point plugs like Lafreniere and Chytil are the ideal of how we should be playing, we're missing the point.

Without "floaters" like Kreider and Zibanejad, this board would be hedging their bets on an outside chance at Bedard. I know we all like to wax poetic about giving Laf and Kakko the keys like Hughes got the keys, but Hughes is good. Sorry.

When we were down against Pittsburgh and Carolina, soft vegan soyboy Mika reached into Hell and dragged this team to the ECF by their hair, so respectfully, bullshit.

I've been hearing that it's the country club vets all my life. I would love to see an actual list of the ones that were bad. Poor Eric Lindros who almost led the Wolfpack to the playoffs on nine braincells? Scott Gomez who played his best hockey for the Rangers and then landed us Ryan McDonagh? Brad Richards who was the x-factor in every game 7 he played in?

When I think of the last Rangers team that had the identity everyone craves, I think of Dubinsky and Callahan. Sorry, but I'm already bored. Sick of the grinders. Sick of glorifying it while every talented player is a "coaster." That's what the organization gaslights the fans and themselves into thinking.

I know @EdJovanovski is a nutball, but he's absolutely right today. All everyone does is talk about how we're the Globetrotters and I wish we were the Globetrotters. Some teams just don't have a good roster. Looking at the names on the paper, and looking at the performance, this is the worst offensive team I've ever seen. They're like watching paint dry.

I'm so sick of "the Rangers are too soft." The Rangers are too boring. Have been since the f***ing GAG Line retired.

What do I think is the problem with the culture? The organization is safe. They're safe to the point where it makes you nauseous. More than one offensive defenseman on the same roster?!?!?! Slow down there, cowboy! Promising young prospect? Benched if you make a mistake. Learn to play the right way first. The coach? With the exception of Quinn, always the most established name available. Hell, look at our lines! Safe, safe, and safe. The Kids are a security blanket from last year's playoffs. Kreider-Zibanejad is a security blanket from 2018. Pararnin-Kane is a security blanket from f***ing 2016!!! Lindgren-Fox: security blanket. Everything is safe. Same system, same tactics, same development, same approach, couldn't even rebuild without having a safety valve in Panarin to sell some tickets.

When this inevitably creates and entire roster of Taylor Pyatt's and maybe Brandon Dubinsky's on a good day, the Rangers go out and add the talent they don't have an expect them too freelance the Rangers out of the hole the Rangers dug, with no offensive gameplan because offense is unsafe.

And then we have the audacity to be mad when the talented players look ineffective and slow, get caught out of position, and have to force things on an organization that has been playing chip and chase Nyquil hockey since the 80's.

The 2011-12 team had that "identity" because they went all in on caveman hockey, and I guess that was better in some respects, although that team got absolutely f***ED by the Devils, again, sorry.

Other than that the, Rangers have been trying to super-glue talented players onto an organization that wants to play no-forward-passes 6v6 shinny FOR DECADES, and we blame the talent instead of the cowards running the team.

It's not a matter of the talented players looking ineffective. It's that they are ineffective. I actually don't think Kreider or Zibanejad are as much a part of the problem as others. But one of the big problems is that Kreider and Zibanejad have since the beginning of time needed somebody on their other wing who plays pro-actively off the puck to have any success. Who has worked with that pair? Zuccarello, Fast, Buchnevich, Kakko, Vesey, Fast, sort of Vatrano (though the ways they didn't work still make my point). Who has not? Panarin, Tarasenko.

It's not exclusively about floating or not giving a shit--though it's absolutely a part of it--it's also about working smartly first and foremost. It's endemic that if a player on our team doesn't have the puck he's just another fan with better seats to watch the game. This roster has huge weaknesses. We lack puck moving ability on the back end and we lack speed at the forward position. But read that sentence once and the best possible solution to mitigate those weaknesses becomes pretty obvious to me, especially given what we are good at--generating quality chances and scoring on them.

I think you're right from an organizational perspective that we are way too conservative. We've been trying to build a winner for the 1995 playoffs since 2015.

But the on-ice problems exist and to my eyes they are very much to do with effort and execution. I've never said anything about grinders or 2012 teams. And I've certainly never said every talented player is a coaster. Bergeron and Marchand are hardly Callahan and Dubinsky. I'd like to see out top players play more like the former than the latter. It's not about aimlessly hitting things or sprinting everywhere you go. It's about knowing that when you don't have the puck, you still have a job to do; it's about reading the play and working hard to get into a position that can help your teammates and disrupt the opposition. The kids are not my 'ideal' in this at all. They just do it more ,and more consistently, than the players above them. Why has Jimmy Vesey been such a darling this year? For exactly the kind of reasons I'm laying out. He's hardly the most skilled player on the roster, he's just pro-active, decisive, and works hard to support his team.

We took a unanimous 1st overall and a 2nd overall widely regarded as the most NHL-ready player in the draft, and we turned them into Arron Asham and Marcel Hossa....MARCEL!!!!

Meanwhile, somehow we don't bump and grind enough and the forwards carrying the team should play more like Alexi Scissorhands.

Tired of it.

I don't know if this is in response to me but if it is, I'm a little insulted. That's not even an accurate hyperbole of what I've said.

 

[Machinehead]

It's not a matter of the talented players looking ineffective. It's that they are ineffective. I actually don't think Kreider or Zibanejad are as much a part of the problem as others. But one of the big problems is that Kreider and Zibanejad have since the beginning of time needed somebody on their other wing who plays pro-actively off the puck to have any success. Who has worked with that pair? Zuccarello, Fast, Buchnevich, Kakko, Vesey, Fast, sort of Vatrano (though the ways they didn't work still make my point). Who has not? Panarin, Tarasenko.

It's not exclusively about floating or not giving a shit--though it's absolutely a part of it--it's also about working smartly first and foremost. It's endemic that if a player on our team doesn't have the puck he's just another fan with better seats to watch the game. This roster has huge weaknesses. We lack puck moving ability on the back end and we lack speed at the forward position. But read that sentence once and the best possible solution to mitigate those weaknesses becomes pretty obvious to me, especially given what we are good at--generating quality chances and scoring on them.

I think you're right from an organizational perspective that we are way too conservative. We've been trying to build a winner for the 1995 playoffs since 2015.

But the on-ice problems exist and to my eyes they are very much to do with effort and execution. I've never said anything about grinders or 2012 teams. And I've certainly never said every talented player is a coaster. Bergeron and Marchand are Callahan and Dubinsky. I'd like to see out top players play more like the former than the latter. It's not about aimlessly hitting things or sprinting everywhere you go. It's about knowing that when you don't have the puck, you still have a job to do; it's about reading the play and working hard to get into a position that can help your teammates and disrupt the opposition. The kids are not my 'ideal' in this at all. They just do it more ,and more consistently, than the players above them. Why has Jimmy Vesey been such a darling this year? For exactly the kind of reasons I'm laying out. He's hardly the most skilled player on the roster, he's just pro-active, decisive, and works hard to support his team.

You know who else needs a strong off-the-puck player on their wing? EVERY TALENTED PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NHL!!!!!!

Bergeron is a unicorn. Most star players in this league couldn't point you in the direction of their own zone if you gave them a map.

All-offense lines rarely work.

Crosby sucks if he's not with some f***ing random dude they called up from Scranton. Is he a floater?

"Our top players didn't play hard against a hard team..." We scored two goals!! That's getting shut out in 2023. And Asham had both of them. We got shut down offensively again. Missing the forest for the trees.

If your role is offense, you're not gonna say "hey I'm getting shut down, better start skating back hard and riding the boards so I'm doing something." Actually, Lafreniere and Kakko say that and that's why they f***ING SUCK!!! I love Jimbo but he's proactive, works hard, and does the little things, because he used to be a scorer and HE SUUUUUCCCKKEEEDDD!

Do you think Nikita Kucherov f***ing backchecks??? Do you think Mikko Rantanen gives a little extra to close on his man?? These are guys winning Cups. Ovechkin won a Cup! I've contributed to the Washington Capitals off the puck and in the defensive zone more than he has. Sid is another unicorn, but Evgeni Malkin? Feet up having a beer in two zones his entire career. Those guys are winning because they f***ing score and we don't.

Every guy I mentioned was drafted and developed by the team they're playing for. The forwards we drafted and developed? Can't even receive a pass, but hey Lafreniere is 4th on the team in hits and did some good things and stuff away from the puck yesterday I guess. So that's fine. We could have Tim Stuztle, one of the worst defenders in the NHL, but Lafreniere and his backchecking is fine. I'll sleep well thinking about his puck support and hustle the next time Jack Hughes has a 4 point game against the Rangers.

I don't care if our top forwards do those things. Only the Rangers and Rangers fans care about it. I want our top forwards to be good at offense and they aren't. Not consistently, and sure has hell not forwards we developed.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't know if this is in response to me but if it is, I'm a little insulted. That's not even an accurate hyperbole of what I've said.

I'm a little insulted reading about working hard and doing your job away from the puck.

You could do coke and red bull and fall asleep watching this team struggle to 2 goals every night.

 

[Machinehead]

Oh, I almost forgot, Patrick Kane has three Cups!!

Yeah, Jimmy Vesey is a better player 95% of the time but the team that wins the game is the team with more goals.

He comes here and can't put up a point.

 

[TheDirtyH]

You know who else needs a strong off-the-puck player on their wing? EVERY TALENTED PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THE NHL!!!!!!

Bergeron is a unicorn. Most star players in this league couldn't point you in the direction of their own zone if you gave them a map.

All-offense lines rarely work.

Crosby sucks if he's not with some f***ing random dude they called up from Scranton. Is he a floater?

"Our top players didn't play hard against a hard team..." We scored two goals!! That's getting shut out in 2023. And Asham had both of them. We got shut down offensively again. Missing the forest for the trees.

If your role is offense, you're not gonna say "hey I'm getting shut down, better start skating back hard and riding the boards so I'm doing something." Actually, Lafreniere and Kakko say that and that's why they f***ING SUCK!!! I love Jimbo but he's proactive, works hard, and does the little things, because he used to be a scorer and HE SUUUUUCCCKKEEEDDD!

Do you think Nikita Kucherov f***ing backchecks??? Do you think Mikko Rantanen gives a little extra to close on his man?? These are guys winning Cups. Ovechkin won a Cup! I've contributed to the Washington Capitals off the puck and in the defensive zone more than he has. Sid is another unicorn, but Evgeni Malkin? Feet up having a beer in two zones his entire career. Those guys are winning because they f***ing score and we don't.

Every guy I mentioned was drafted and developed by the team they're playing for. The forwards we drafted and developed? Can't even receive a pass, but hey Lafreniere is 4th on the team in hits and did some good things and stuff away from the puck yesterday I guess. So that's fine. We could have Tim Stuztle, one of the worst defenders in the NHL, but Lafreniere and backchecking is fine. I'll sleep well thinking about his puck support and hustle the next time Jack Hughes has a 4 point game against the Rangers.

I don't care if our top forwards do those things. Only the Rangers and Rangers fans care about it. I want our top forwards to be good at offense and they aren't. Not consistently, and sure has hell not forwards we developed.

Yes! Rantanen and Kucherov DO exactly what I'm talking about, not to the degree of bergeron (they're wingers!) but they absolutely play the game so much harder and with much more commitment.

I don't have a problem with you disagreeing with me but don't condescend. If you were seeing the forest here, you'd actually respond to my points not to some nebulous stand in poster whining about grit. Our team at large is built a certain way. We dont have blazing speed. We don't have the type of defensemen who can spring a counter attack quickly.

You think Lindholm was just a shitty player on the ducks and then got prescribed Adderall in Boston? Offense, for our roster, has to come from engagement and awareness on the ice.

And it's ironic you'd use Lafreniere as your example of who sucks bc of whatever it is you've decided I'm saying. He was the only player who actually scored last game!!

Clearly not worth going back and forth on this with you.

I'm a little insulted reading about working hard and doing your job away from the puck.

You could do coke and red bull and fall asleep watching this team struggle to 2 goals every night.

Yes. And MY POINTS were about how and why we struggle to do this. You go from saying Zibanejad has no skills last week to singing his praises as an offensive dynamo held back by idk the despotic force of glen sather and Mitch mconnel's cigar room hangouts.