Roster Building Thread IV (2019/2020)

[Lindberg Cheese]

Nothing beats the bad memories I have from my 23rd birth day that involved a female Finnish shot putter that wouldn’t take no for an answer. I have recovered, but the No 23 still make me cringe every time I see it.

A female Finnish shot putter walks into a bar with a miniature Ola on her shoulder. The bartender asks, that’s amazing where’d you get that? Miniature Ola responds, at a gender non-specific disco, there are plenty of them

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Look it's a shitty situation, but it's not their fault. One can also argue, that they would hurt their current value, by having undervalued contracts. ADA specially is a kid I wouldn't want to low-ball. If he's comfortable and feels appreciated (compensated according to his ALREADY PROVEN WORTH) he'll play his best, I'd do anything to motivate him to see that next gear.

Btw there is no "instead of" in this case ... We had to buy-out Shatty for Trouba's sake and that Panarin deal alone and we still then and now need to shed some more cap space, to sign the RFAs and be a little bit flexible during the season.

Ultimately I feel this will hurt the team most, not the individual players. There are cleary two camps here, I'm with the RFAs, specially ADA.

 

[Leetch3]

None of those movies is from 88 though

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Can you write a ****ing book on how to live life please? This mofo was married and divorved by 23 ...

----------------

No surprise on the Belesky front.

I'm firmly on ADA's side, he can not sign a QO or anything close to 1M/y, he has every right to be looking for more.
Lemieux much less but again, with him also, I only see the **** up with the FO, not being able to shed the OBVIOUS one out: Namestnikov and create some space.

In South Africa, of all places

 

[mas0764]

None of those movies is from 88 though

Yeah but they have to go 88 miles an hour to time jump.

 

[Kovalev27]

The idiot here is Lemieux he’s done absolutely nothing to get a penny more than being offered. There are a ton of forwards here. I’m sure Lias or Boo would love nothing more than to stay up with the team while This guy sits unsigned.

Tony has a legit gripe. He was outstanding last year. He should be getting a 1.2 to 1.5 mil deal. Maybe even for 2 years. He’s getting short changed here badly. My guess is the priority is to get Tony signed. Lemieux they’ll leave him sitting if he doesn’t want to sign. They won’t budge I bet.

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Are you ignoring the fact that DQ put a lot of attention and time into TDA's development? He was brought up and along slowly, as he needed to be. This was a process, stop making it sound so black and white. I highly doubt any of us would be complaining if Tony was here in a year at 2.7 or whatever the number would be on a 3 -4yr deal.

I actually don't mind a one year 'prover' deal, I think we'd be paying a whole lot more than 2.7 next summer though ...

And it seems everyone who wants to give him a this massive pay increase on a long term deal has forgotten that he has only had HALF a season of success and maturity. He has not earned that contract that people want to give him. He was the best defender on a HORRIBLE defense.. that's not saying much. Its cut and dry for me. We have plenty of prospects who are and will be ready in the near future. He needs to prove his attitude, maturity, and skill on and off the ice first. If he does we can give him 2.7 over 3 years, with the money we freed up with getting rid of krieder. To think he will get more than 3m aav is out of control. The kid made under 1m on his last contract and the past and present have not shown he deserves more or that long term contract yet.

Everything in life is a process. And I'm a firm believer that players EARN their contract based on past and present you.

 

[Crease]

I image TDA and Lemieux are grumpy that the rookies are currently getting paid more than them this year.

 

[NYR Viper]

I image TDA and Lemieux are grumpy that the rookies are currently getting paid more than them this year.

And that would be my take as well. And it's not just Kravtsov and Kaako. Rykov. Lindgren. Hell even Hajek makes $833k. Like I said, give them a small bump and move on.

 

[LORDE]

It's going to be fun knowing that we'll likely have a reason to watch every game even with the split squads.

I said this exact statement to a fellow NYR fan at work yesterday

 

[True Blue]

Can we just attach an asset or two and trade Namestnikov and Staal or Smith? Thanks.

Who are you trading them to?

I am sure that if you pick up half of Stall's remaining salary and if you attach let's say next year's #1, you may well find a taker. Otherwise, what kid of deal are you even thinking of?

 

[Vitto79]

capfriendly actually put Belesky in the minors finally lol

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Staal is untradable (for the 100th time)

Smith is borderline untradeable

Nam at 50% should get the job done, or doesn't it apparently? ... that 11M/y contract bruh

 

[LORDE]

And here I was thinking that you’re a boring Euro guy with no fun past. I stand corrected and require more details like if she licked away your sweet tears afterwards or if she slapped your backside afterward and told you good game.

She merely threw a few Euros on the now damaged (along with his psyche) nightstand for cab fare

 

[Jabroni]

None of those movies is from 88 though

It's 88 miles per hour for the DeLorean to time travel.

 

[True Blue]

This could easily be flipped the other way on the team. Are the Rangers as an organization really going to put the screws to two young productive players who may be part of this next core and sour the relationship early over $75k per player? When they just handed out all of that money to Trouba and Panarin?

You are not talking about Panarin and Trouba. You are talking about DeAngelo and Lemieux. Players that have by and large proven nothing. One had issues that resulted in him being a healthy scratch for most parts of a season and is on his 3rd team in 4 years. And one was used as a spare 4th liner. IF the differential is only $75k per (and we do not know the issues, be they dollars or length) then why would these two hurt themselves like this?

They want to get lucrative, long term deals. Is putting yourself behind the 8 ball for camp really help you? Let's take the extreme. Let's say they hold out the entire year. What kind of contract do you think they will get then? Or what if they miss a substantial portion of camp (there is a pre-season game already next Wednesday) and get passed on the depth chart? They they are fighting an uphill battle to get in game-shape and are already behind. What kind of a contract next year are they looking at now?

 

[True Blue]

Ultimately I feel this will hurt the team most, not the individual players. There are cleary two camps here, I'm with the RFAs, specially ADA.

The team is probably not competing for the playoffs anyway this year. Tell me, are the players hurt if they miss an entire year or most of camp by this?

 

[NYRFANMANI]

The team is probably not competing for the playoffs anyway this year.

We're significantly better on offense. If the defense gets their shit together, we should project to make the playoffs. Big if though.

Tell me, are the players hurt if they miss an entire year or most of camp by this?

Yes, their development definitely will suffer. I want emphasize that ADA has waaay more leverage and you can't bag him up with Lemieux as "players that have by and large proven nothing." ADA has proven a lot last season, enough to earn a brigde deal around 1.5-2m/y.

I want both signed by camp and the easiest way to do so imo is to just somehow get rid of Nam.

 

[Kovalev27]

There really is no money. I mean I don’t understand how we didn’t move one of Kreider namestnikov or Strome. Just not a good job.

We can only carry 22 players as it is. According to cap friendly figure andersson and boo down Kravtsov and Lemieux signed.

Leaves less than 2 mil avail to sign tony and leave cap space for injury issues. Tony is not signing for less than a mil and frankly not should he. It’s absurd to expect him too.

Lemieux has zero shot of getting a dime more.

 

[gravey9]

Few thoughts:

1 - Re: Lemieux and D'Angelo. As much as we'd love them to sign already, having them sit out the beginning of training camp comes with a short-term benefit. We can give other young kids more looks in pre-season. In D'Angelo's case, it should give Tarmo, Lindgren, Hajek and Rykov more chances. Most interested to see Tarmo, who could have a bigger opening to stay in NA. He might not be ready, but the more game action we can get him the more we'll see if he's able to adjust. In general, this 4-some on D + Keane, Day have a short window to prove themselves as Miller, Lundkvist and Robertson are here within 1-2 years.

Same goes at forward with Lemieux. More time to figure out which of Lias, Howden, Chytil, Strome and Names end up on the wing versus center or with HWP.

2 - When projecting this season, it seems like people are looking almost purely at production projections. Meaning, if we replaced the production of Hayes, Zucc, Shatty and Pionk and all things being equal we should roughly end up with a similar record, give or take 5-10 points in the standings. And while I think that's somewhat valid, I think it's also somewhat myopic.

With the addition of Kakko and Panarin, the team has, for the first time in about 25 years, the potential to have multiple elite players who thrive on big moments. Who can generate that big goal when the team needs it. And two players who will be absolutely deadly in 3 on 3 OT. Now, of course, both Kakko and Panarin are entering brand new situations. So, there's a chance we only see glimpses of this, this season. But given all the other changes, there's a chance that a few big late-game goals somewhere in season from these 2 could change the entire dynamic. Could give the team the kind of confidence we haven't seen in a bit.

Having a few guys who you can always count on to score or set-up the big goal -- it really can change everything. Again, not saying this happens this season. But it's just the possibility of it that has me even more intrigued to see how this team grows this year.

 

[Kovalev27]

I disagree these are two important young pieces that cannot afford to fall behind here. They need to right there from the start.

They could be forfeiting jobs they’re working hard to keep it’s really bad timing for them.

 

[Ola]

Staal is untradable (for the 100th time)

Smith is borderline untradeable

Nam at 50% should get the job done, or doesn't it apparently? ... that 11M/y contract bruh

With Names, I think it’s as simple as the general buyer/seller sets the market cliches. Very few teams have cap space. There are many teams that want to move players, and when they can’t move their cancers they look to move the 2nd rate guys.

When everything have trickled down — is there still a market for Names? I doubt there is.

I mean, what difference is there between us and many other organizations in this league right now? If someone called Gorton today and offered up a very good young player with a 4m contract for a cheap price of futures only, Gorton would surely say ‘I am very interested, can I get back to you in 6 months?’ At best, I think that is the response Gorts is getting from most Orgs.

 

[True Blue]

We're significantly better on offense. If the defense gets their **** together, we should project to make the playoffs. Big if though.

This is pure speculation with a bit of wishful thinking. Relying on rookies to become instant impact players is not a route littered with success. But this has all been regurgitated multiple times. Yes, they could compete IF ALL goes correct and NOTHING goes wrong. The odds of that are not great.

Yes, their development definitely will suffer. I want emphasize that ADA has waaay more leverage and you can't bag him up with Lemieux as "players that have by and large proven nothing." ADA has proven a lot last season, enough to earn a brigde deal around 1.5-2m/y.

ADA has shown something. He is FAR from a proven commodity yet. TODAY, his leverage is exactly the same as Lemieux's.

So to your point, if their development suffers, how does that bode for future contracts?

I want both signed by camp and the easiest way to do so imo is to just somehow get rid of Nam.

So do I. But that deal is not out there. So there is no "somehow" getting rid if him. Or anyone else for that matter. Unless you find a taker, he is here. And there is no taker. At least not at a level that Gorton is willing to pay.

 

[Ola]

Few thoughts:

1 - Re: Lemieux and D'Angelo. As much as we'd love them to sign already, having them sit out the beginning of training camp comes with a short-term benefit. We can give other young kids more looks in pre-season. In D'Angelo's case, it should give Tarmo, Lindgren, Hajek and Rykov more chances. Most interested to see Tarmo, who could have a bigger opening to stay in NA. He might not be ready, but the more game action we can get him the more we'll see if he's able to adjust. In general, this 4-some on D + Keane, Day have a short window to prove themselves as Miller, Lundkvist and Robertson are here within 1-2 years.

Same goes at forward with Lemieux. More time to figure out which of Lias, Howden, Chytil, Strome and Names end up on the wing versus center or with HWP.

2 - When projecting this season, it seems like people are looking almost purely at production projections. Meaning, if we replaced the production of Hayes, Zucc, Shatty and Pionk and all things being equal we should roughly end up with a similar record, give or take 5-10 points in the standings. And while I think that's somewhat valid, I think it's also somewhat myopic.

With the addition of Kakko and Panarin, the team has, for the first time in about 25 years, the potential to have multiple elite players who thrive on big moments. Who can generate that big goal when the team needs it. And two players who will be absolutely deadly in 3 on 3 OT. Now, of course, both Kakko and Panarin are entering brand new situations. So, there's a chance we only see glimpses of this, this season. But given all the other changes, there's a chance that a few big late-game goals somewhere in season from these 2 could change the entire dynamic. Could give the team the kind of confidence we haven't seen in a bit.

Having a few guys who you can always count on to score or set-up the big goal -- it really can change everything. Again, not saying this happens this season. But it's just the possibility of it that has me even more intrigued to see how this team grows this year.

Yeah and I really doubt projecting points by a hockey team by looking at player production comes closer than looking at the results the previous years. If there is any correlation — it surely is very very minor.

So many times, good players also have good production because they played for a good team.

 

[True Blue]

There really is no money. I mean I don’t understand how we didn’t move one of Kreider namestnikov or Strome. Just not a good job.

Because the deals are not out there. Not sure what there is not to understand. No one is taking on any salary. Want to give Kreider away for a 7th round pick? I am sure you will find a taker.

Gorton searched for a deal for at least Kreider and Nametsnikov. They were not there. There are no takers unless you just want to eat salary and give away for free. No idea on Strome, but logic dictates that no one wants to pay for him at $3m just yet.

So what are you to do? How is it not a "good job" if there are no deals to be made? Short of Gorton calling a GM and somehow forcing him to agree to take the players and the dollars associated with it, what do you propose?