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Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2019/2020) - DeAngelo and Lemieux Left

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Nickmo82 said:
Anglicise is the word.

I don't think going from Yoshihito to Brad is an example of that. It's just picking a new, Western name. Anglicising things is going from Carlos to Charles and the like.
Click to expand...

Regardless, it's what they do. Hiroyuki to Hunter, Andrzej to Andy. My point is it's not localized to hockey.
 
BBKers said:
I believe the QOs are as per below:

Brendan Lemieux: $881,125
Anthony DeAngelo: $906,500

Correct me if I’m wrong though
Click to expand...
Just going off of rudimentary math here, but...

Based on CapFriendly, both should be getting QO's of 105% of previous years salary.

Lemieux -> $832.5k base salary last season becomes a $874,125 QO
DeAngelo -> same base salary so same QO

pDTMXbG.png


Please correct me if I am wrong. ;)
 
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You know whats funny? The last 2 guys to be signed could be arguably the 2 players most improved and becoming huge components on this moving forward Rangers team. Everyone will be looking at the shiny new toys, and Chytil, Hayek and Lias.......but these 2 are every bit as important. Mark my words......Tony will have a great season as he has put to rest most of his issues and can concentrate on being better and a mainstay. No more Pionk issues. Lol.
Lemieux has game and with good conditioning off season......he should be that much better for it and be able to have longer shifts and more stamina......makes for a better player, wouldnt you say?
 
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Irishguy42 said:
Just going off of rudimentary math here, but...

Based on CapFriendly, both should be getting QO's of 105% of previous years salary.

Lemieux -> $832.5k base salary last season becomes a $874,125 QO
DeAngelo -> same base salary so same QO

pDTMXbG.png


Please correct me if I am wrong. ;)
Click to expand...
You're totally correct; those numbers are right for both players.

The numbers also don't mean much at all, as, unless the Rangers requested an extension of the QO signing period for both or either players, the offers have expired. Meaning that while yes, either player could sign for their QO number, they will likely sign for something else, something slightly higher.
 
Larrybiv said:
You know whats funny? The last 2 guys to be signed could be arguably the 2 players most improved and becoming huge components on this moving forward Rangers team. Everyone will be looking at the shiny new toys, and Chytil, Hayek and Lias.......but these 2 are every bit as important. Mark my words......Tony will have a great season as he has put to rest most of his issues and can concentrate on being better and a mainstay. No more Pionk issues. Lol.
Lemieux has game and with good conditioning off season......he should be that much better for it and be able to have longer shifts and more stamina......makes for a better player, wouldnt you say?
Click to expand...

That first line is a big part of what makes these signings so tricky. On the one hand, there's a good chance that both guys can take it to the next level next season. On the other hand, you're trying to pay them for they've done to this point and what the market dictates, and not what you hope they'll do.
 
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Irishguy42 said:
Just going off of rudimentary math here, but...

Based on CapFriendly, both should be getting QO's of 105% of previous years salary.

Lemieux -> $832.5k base salary last season becomes a $874,125 QO
DeAngelo -> same base salary so same QO

pDTMXbG.png


Please correct me if I am wrong. ;)
Click to expand...


Is that based on base salary in the last season or the avg base salary throughout the contract? If it's the latter, Lemieux' QO should be $816,375
 
Edge said:
That first line is a big part of what makes these signings so tricky. On the one hand, there's a good chance that both guys can take it to the next level next season. On the other hand, you're trying to pay them for they've done to this point and what the market dictates, and not what you hope they'll do.
Click to expand...

well I think that is flawed logic that the league is trending away from...the idea of paying guys for what they were and not what they are or will be. that's how you end up with overpaid guys at the end of their careers, instead of paying guys that are currently good. But of course the difficult there is knowing which players are worth investing in...but that can be a whole separate topic.

on ADA and Lemieux specifically, my speculation is that the potential upside and desire to sign them for more than 1 year is the reason why neither has been signed yet. people hear just want them to sign and have it over, but there is no rush for either the team or the players to jump on the deal. as other teams sign their RFAs, maybe the trade market opens up and maybe we can make some moves to free up some space to allow a multiple year deal. my guess is that team has discussed both a 1 year deal and multi-year deal with both players depending on the cap situation.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Is that based on base salary in the last season or the avg base salary throughout the contract? If it's the latter, Lemieux' QO should be $816,375
Click to expand...
It's based on the past season. Last season Lemieux's base was $832,500, from what I can find. 105% of which would be $874,125.

upload_2019-8-13_9-39-1.png


The specific language is this:

(B) if the Player's prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary is greater than
$660,000, but less than $1,000,000 for that League Year, 105% of
his prior year's Paragraph 1 NHL Salary, but in no event to exceed
$1,000,000.

"Paragraph 1 NHL Salary" is base salary, plus signing bonuses. Which is why you often see guys not have signing bonuses in the last years of their ELC, because when they hit RFA it can inflate their QO. DeAngelo and Lemieux both had signing bonuses in previous years, but not last year. So their base stays lower for QO purposes.
 
Last edited:
yeah its the final year...thats why you often see deals front loaded, that then lowers the final year of the deal and therefore lowers the QO
 
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Leetch3 said:
yeah its the final year...thats why you often see deals front loaded, that then lowers the final year of the deal and therefore lowers the QO
Click to expand...

Well, the more likely reason for front-loading a contract is to make it easier to move the contract later on
 
Leetch3 said:
yeah its the final year...thats why you often see deals front loaded, that then lowers the final year of the deal and therefore lowers the QO
Click to expand...

That is more UFA deals. Why would a player who expires as a RFA want to accept an offer that lowers his QO?
 
I'm really amped to see a full year of Lemieux.

Similar to ADA, there are young guys in the league who for whatever reason don't work out with the team they are drafted by and catch on with the second team they are moved that offers a better fit to and have good careers.

Lemieux is a great asset to have on the lower lines. An energy guy who can play tough, drop em' if he has to but can also skate and put the puck in the net. That's an important player to have these days.

I'm not as high on ADA as some others are, mainly because of his attitude. The kid is very skilled and im hoping that he matures and reaches his potential. Both of these guys could supply a big time boost on both sides of the puck.
 
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Leetch3 said:
well I think that is flawed logic that the league is trending away from...the idea of paying guys for what they were and not what they are or will be. that's how you end up with overpaid guys at the end of their careers, instead of paying guys that are currently good. But of course the difficult there is knowing which players are worth investing in...but that can be a whole separate topic.

on ADA and Lemieux specifically, my speculation is that the potential upside and desire to sign them for more than 1 year is the reason why neither has been signed yet. people hear just want them to sign and have it over, but there is no rush for either the team or the players to jump on the deal. as other teams sign their RFAs, maybe the trade market opens up and maybe we can make some moves to free up some space to allow a multiple year deal. my guess is that team has discussed both a 1 year deal and multi-year deal with both players depending on the cap situation.
Click to expand...

I respect your thought process on how you want to sign players to contracts to what you believe they will be worth but that's how you overpay for talent that never lives up to their potential as well. It's about taking all 3 into consideration when making a deal and being smart about length of contract to older players.

Ada for example, I'd love to give him a 3 year deal and see how he does. But that does not mean you give him 4m aav. He has shown for half a season he can be solid and play in the NHL out of his 3 seasons in the NHL. He made less than 1m aav in his first contract.. where in anyone's mind should we give him 4 to 5xs his old contract? 3 years at 2.5m aav is where I'm at.

I agree with you about rangers wanting to sign them for more than 1 year and I agree we should and hope we will
 
You can only manipulate the money in an ELC so much, since the difference between the minimum (I believe $700K at the moment) and maximum ($925K) is so small. An ELC can really only be front-loaded so much, as a result. Like, look at the Lemieux deal I posted--flip his comp so he's making $832K his first year and $700K this year. If you traded him, the team taking him on saves almost nothing in real dollars. If you're front-loading money and bonuses in an ELC it's really just to keep the QO down, since again, in a trade the money difference is so minimal.

UFAs, sure. Guys on bridge deals, sure. But on ELCs, it's all about the qualifying offer.
 
Let Tony sit out and lose out on a bunch of points towards a next season cash in.

I like him a lot but that's just the business side.

The 2.5-3 mil offer sheet prospect is also scary as hell.

Just take the freaking offer Tony and shut everyone up - completely - this season and get that check next year.
 
If The Rangers play around with their roster a bit they could have, ~$2m in cap space going into the season.

ADA @ $1m
Lemieux @ $900k

Demote Beleskey and Smith, McKegg
Keep Fox, Rykov on the roster

Panarin-Zibanejad-Kakko
Kreider-Chytil-Buchnevich
Lemieux-Andersson-Strome
Namestnikov-Howden-Fast
Nieves

Skjei-Trouba
Staal-ADA
Rykov/Hajek/Lindgren-Fox

This would allow Gorton to retain on someone like Namestnikov and/or take back a contract to help another team save some money if needed.

For example, would Calgary be looking to create a bit more cap flexibility to sign Tkachuk?

Hamonic for Namestnikov @ $3m cap hit

Flames save $857k

Both players are UFA's at year end. The Rangers use Hamonic for most of the season and then flip him at the deadline.

Or would Calgary give up a pick to swap Namestnikov @ $3m for Frolik ($4.3m). Both UFA's at year end. Flames save $1.3m this season.
 
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