Canada all time team

[authentic]

M. Lemieux - Gretzky - Crosby
Hull Sr. - McDavid - Lafleur
MacKinnon - Lindros - Howe
Messier - Clarke - Trottier
Keon - Bergeron

Orr - Harvey
Bourque - Pronger
Potvin - Robinson
Shore

Roy
Dryden
Brodeur

Coach: Bowman
Assistants: Burns and Neilson

Clear omissions: Esposito, Bossy, Rocket, Beliveau, Coffey, Makar

As great as these guys ^ were, they weren't the right fit for my team. It came down to...

McDavid vs. Beliveau
Lindros vs. Esposito
Hull Sr. vs. Rocket
Lafleur vs. Bossy
Potvin and Robinson vs. Coffey and Makar

Hull Sr.-Gretzky-Howe
Lemieux-Crosby-Lafleur
Kariya-Lindros-McDavid
MacKinnon-Trottier-Bossy
Clarke-Beliveau

Orr-Harvey
Potvin-Pronger
Bourque-Robinson
Coffey

Roy
Brodeur
Plante

I think this could be a quite interesting line up. Good luck beating this team, or any in this thread really. Your defense is where it’s at IMO.

I really struggled leaving Béliveau out of the starting line up, and was tempted to go with a MacKinnon-Lindros-McDavid 3rd line, but I can’t help but think how well Kariya and McDavid could work together, plus it’s something we haven’t seen before.

Yes. Not in terms of playing a big game, but day to day in the regular season and in training he's not one of those stars who goes all out. I'd say that Doughty, if he were one of the more driven stars of his generation, would have very comfortably established himself as the best Canadian defenceman between Pronger and Makar. As it is, I wanted another right handed defenceman and took him over MacInnis and Horton in order to get another 21st century defenceman on the team.

I get where you’re coming from here, but on the other hand do Makar and Pronger really go all out in regular season games either? Not based on what I’ve seen. You may be correct about the training though as I’ve heard the same thing from people who played with him before the NHL.

I’ll be honest though, Pronger and Makar are better than Doughty at their best, full stop. Especially Pronger.

 

[Namba 17]

In terms of what you said - that Bossy demands a playmaker at centre - yes, Sutter is a nobody. That he made Canada several times as a gritty depth checker does not really change that at all.

Ok. So, gritty depth checker made team Canada 3 times in 8 years on best on best tournaments... Canada must be really thin in talents then

As for international, Stastny and Yzerman did not centre Bossy at that event.

Bossy played with Stastny Sept 01 against West Germany (2 goals), Sept 03 against USA (1 secondary PP asissist).
With Yzerman - Sept 06 against Sweden (1 goal, 1 assist - best player on team Canada)
Since Sept 08 Bossy played with Sutter and Tonelli (5 games 2 goals with 1 PPG, 2 assists with only one secondary assist in 2 final games)
Tonelli was named MVP and made All-stars of the tournament

 

[jigglysquishy]

best Canadian defenceman between Pronger and Makar.

He probably already has this title. It's either him or Keith. No one else is really in the running. I lean Doughty at this point, but best Canadian d man in a 24 year window is a big accomplishment.

 

[JackSlater]

Hull Sr.-Gretzky-Howe
Lemieux-Crosby-Lafleur
Kariya-Lindros-McDavid
MacKinnon-Trottier-Bossy
Clarke-Beliveau

Orr-Harvey
Potvin-Pronger
Bourque-Robinson
Coffey

Roy
Brodeur
Plante

I think this could be a quite interesting line up. Good luck beating this team, or any in this thread really. Your defense is where it’s at IMO.

I really struggled leaving Béliveau out of the starting line up, and was tempted to go with a MacKinnon-Lindros-McDavid 3rd line, but I can’t help but think how well Kariya and McDavid could work together, plus it’s something we haven’t seen before.



I get where you’re coming from here, but on the other hand do Makar and Pronger really go all out in regular season games either? Not based on what I’ve seen. You may be correct about the training though as I’ve heard the same thing from people who played with him before the NHL.

I’ll be honest though, Pronger and Makar are better than Doughty at their best, full stop. Especially Pronger.

Well yes, Pronger is ahead and that's why I said Doughty is a placeholder for Makar. I would also say that the two of them are more likely to bring it consistently than Doughty was. Full credit to him for always showing up and being generally excellent in big games, which would be more relevant if this all time team Canada actually had to play. Doughty was always excellent internationally, Pronger was a mixed bag, Makar... let's see but looks promising.

Ok. So, gritty depth checker made team Canada 3 times in 8 years on best on best tournaments... Canada must be really thin in talents then


Bossy played with Stastny Sept 01 against West Germany (2 goals), Sept 03 against USA (1 secondary PP asissist).
With Yzerman - Sept 06 against Sweden (1 goal, 1 assist - best player on team Canada)
Since Sept 08 Bossy played with Sutter and Tonelli (5 games 2 goals with 1 PPG, 2 assists with only one secondary assist in 2 final games)
Tonelli was named MVP and made All-stars of the tournament

Yes, some of those Canadian teams were shallow as they would often opt for guys like Sutter rather than stars. Sutter was obviously not some star playmaker, Bossy carried him offensively in his one high scoring season.

I can't say I recall Stastny playing more than one game above the fourth line, and Bossy was not a fourth liner. Yzerman played wing I believe in his limited playing time, going scoreless. Bossy did get Sutter again. In all, Stastny, Yzerman, and Sutter combined for 7 points total, Bossy scored 9. It's a strange argument to sniff at.

He probably already has this title. It's either him or Keith. No one else is really in the running. I lean Doughty at this point, but best Canadian d man in a 24 year window is a big accomplishment.

I do think he was the best Canadian defencemen in that gap but as I said he would have clearly established it rather than allowing it to be a contest, in popular perception, with Keith.

 

[Gerulaitis]

If by "pure" you mean that Bossy didn't bring anything but goals, than yes. That's what I wrote.
But M. Richard, Bobby Hull, G. Howe, M. Lemieux and Gretzky were better goalscorers than him, plus had smth more in their game.

You never saw Ovi then.

I saw him play live

 

[Namba 17]

Yes, some of those Canadian teams were shallow as they would often opt for guys like Sutter rather than stars.

Not "for guys like Suter". Just for Suter. Its not that he was some one-year wonder. He made the best team in the world 3 times in 8 years span.

I can't say I recall Stastny playing more than one game above the fourth line, and Bossy was not a fourth liner. Yzerman played wing I believe in his limited playing time, going scoreless. Bossy did get Sutter again. In all, Stastny, Yzerman, and Sutter combined for 7 points total, Bossy scored 9. It's a strange argument to sniff at.

Whats so strange?
You said that Bossy was exellent without Trottier for team Canada.
With Trottier in 1981 Bossy made All-stars of the tournament, the best goal-scorer of the tournment, #2 scorer of the tournament (1 point less than Gretzky).
Without Trottier Bossy tried in 3 different lines with modest (at best) results - he was driving force of his line in none of these lines. The whole tournament was not disastrous for him because he scored that semi-final goal. But thats it.

 

[JackSlater]

Not "for guys like Suter". Just for Suter. Its not that he was some one-year wonder. He made the best team in the world 3 times in 8 years span.


Whats so strange?
You said that Bossy was exellent without Trottier for team Canada.
With Trottier in 1981 Bossy made All-stars of the tournament, the best goal-scorer of the tournment, #2 scorer of the tournament (1 point less than Gretzky).
Without Trottier Bossy tried in 3 different lines with modest (at best) results - he was driving force of his line in none of these lines. The whole tournament was not disastrous for him because he scored that semi-final goal. But thats it.

Yes guys like Sutter, you can look at every Canada team from the Canada Cups in 1984, 1987, and 1991 and find players like Sutter there in place of better players, more specifically better scorers and playmakers. Sutter does not prove your claim that Bossy "demanded a good playmaker", he actually demonstrates that Bossy did not need a playmaker. Sutter was a gritty defensive centre with some offence, he was not a playmaker and not an elite offensive player.

The 1984 Canada Cup also does not help your claim. Bossy was the main offensive threat on his line, had an excellent tournament, and scored the most famous goal from the tournament. He wasn't playing with Gretzky or any great playmaker most of the time. On some sort of all time team Canada inevitably he would be playing with a great playmaker on any line anyway, but the critique that he required one doesn't hold. I'd say that none of the very best goal scorers ever were dependent on a playmaker, though it certainly helps.

 

[The Panther]

Has Trottier's stock fallen (deservedly?) a bit in recent years? I don't think I would have him on this team, not meaning any disrespect. I would rank Bossy over Trottier now, but I don't think many would have back in the early 80s or whatever.

It is a fact that when Trottier and Bossy were separated, Bossy thrived and Trottier immediately struggled. On the other hand, Trottier had obviously proven himself for two seasons before Bossy got there. As Bossy was younger and had the cannon-shot, I feel like perhaps his skill-set was a bit more enduring into the mid-80s, while Trottier's smaller size and modest speed perhaps limited him after that period. (Trots did have a good vet season in 1987-88, though.)

 

[Crosby2010]

How can you go wrong with any of it? I honestly don't know how you can. It is salivating to think what this team could be.

Hull-Gretzky-Howe
Crosby-Lemieux-Richard
MacKinnon-McDavid-Lafleur
Trottier-Lindros-Bossy
Beliveau

Orr-Makar
Potvin-Bourque
Coffey-Harvey
Robinson

Roy
Plante
Sawchuk

Not a lot of right handed shots on defense for Canada if we want to nitpick. The entire team from the Soviets Canada Cup team in 1984 was left handed, not just the defense. Maybe add MacInnis with the big booming shot on the PP but who do you take off? Also, a lack of the Rocket on these teams is troubling. I know the RW is loaded on Canada and you simply can't leave Howe, Bossy or Lafleur off of this team but how do you leave Richard off? You can't. Outside of Gretzky no one was better in the postseason. He's on there and I think he fits in with Mario. Lindros has got to be there simply for the physical and all around element. We do have guys that can throw hits if need be. And drop the gloves. This team won't get pushed around that's for sure. It has size, speed, clutch play and 200 foot games. The biggest issue is how do you pick just 12 forwards and 6 defenseman and one goalie for each game? Someone has to sit out. And imagine Brodeur doesn't even make this team.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I wouldn't. It's just not good value because no matter who they play the game would be out of reach by the time they got to "...stand on guard for thee" haha

Unless they play the Russians.

 

[authentic]

How can you go wrong with any of it? I honestly don't know how you can. It is salivating to think what this team could be.

Hull-Gretzky-Howe
Crosby-Lemieux-Richard
MacKinnon-McDavid-Lafleur
Trottier-Lindros-Bossy
Beliveau

Orr-Makar
Potvin-Bourque
Coffey-Harvey
Robinson

Roy
Plante
Sawchuk

Not a lot of right handed shots on defense for Canada if we want to nitpick. The entire team from the Soviets Canada Cup team in 1984 was left handed, not just the defense. Maybe add MacInnis with the big booming shot on the PP but who do you take off? Also, a lack of the Rocket on these teams is troubling. I know the RW is loaded on Canada and you simply can't leave Howe, Bossy or Lafleur off of this team but how do you leave Richard off? You can't. Outside of Gretzky no one was better in the postseason. He's on there and I think he fits in with Mario. Lindros has got to be there simply for the physical and all around element. We do have guys that can throw hits if need be. And drop the gloves. This team won't get pushed around that's for sure. It has size, speed, clutch play and 200 foot games. The biggest issue is how do you pick just 12 forwards and 6 defenseman and one goalie for each game? Someone has to sit out. And imagine Brodeur doesn't even make this team.

You know what would be a cool idea? Building the best team World that could challenge Canada. Doubtful they could muster up more than a win or two in a 7 game series but it would be cool to see what we could come up with if they had to try.

 

[Gerulaitis]

You know what would be a cool idea? Building the best team World that could challenge Canada. Doubtful they could muster up more than a win or two in a 7 game series but it would be cool to see what we could come up with if they had to try.

A nice example of wishful thinking.
"Straight outta 1972"

 

[Gerulaitis]

How can you go wrong with any of it? I honestly don't know how you can. It is salivating to think what this team could be.

Hull-Gretzky-Howe
Crosby-Lemieux-Richard
MacKinnon-McDavid-Lafleur
Trottier-Lindros-Bossy
Beliveau

Orr-Makar
Potvin-Bourque
Coffey-Harvey
Robinson

Roy
Plante
Sawchuk

Not a lot of right handed shots on defense for Canada if we want to nitpick. The entire team from the Soviets Canada Cup team in 1984 was left handed, not just the defense. Maybe add MacInnis with the big booming shot on the PP but who do you take off? Also, a lack of the Rocket on these teams is troubling. I know the RW is loaded on Canada and you simply can't leave Howe, Bossy or Lafleur off of this team but how do you leave Richard off? You can't. Outside of Gretzky no one was better in the postseason. He's on there and I think he fits in with Mario. Lindros has got to be there simply for the physical and all around element. We do have guys that can throw hits if need be. And drop the gloves. This team won't get pushed around that's for sure. It has size, speed, clutch play and 200 foot games. The biggest issue is how do you pick just 12 forwards and 6 defenseman and one goalie for each game? Someone has to sit out. And imagine Brodeur doesn't even make this team

How can you go wrong with any of it? I honestly don't know how you can. It is salivating to think what this team could be.

Hull-Gretzky-Howe
Crosby-Lemieux-Richard
MacKinnon-McDavid-Lafleur
Trottier-Lindros-Bossy
Beliveau

Orr-Makar
Potvin-Bourque
Coffey-Harvey
Robinson

Roy
Plante
Sawchuk

Not a lot of right handed shots on defense for Canada if we want to nitpick. The entire team from the Soviets Canada Cup team in 1984 was left handed, not just the defense. Maybe add MacInnis with the big booming shot on the PP but who do you take off? Also, a lack of the Rocket on these teams is troubling. I know the RW is loaded on Canada and you simply can't leave Howe, Bossy or Lafleur off of this team but how do you leave Richard off? You can't. Outside of Gretzky no one was better in the postseason. He's on there and I think he fits in with Mario. Lindros has got to be there simply for the physical and all around element. We do have guys that can throw hits if need be. And drop the gloves. This team won't get pushed around that's for sure. It has size, speed, clutch play and 200 foot games. The biggest issue is how do you pick just 12 forwards and 6 defenseman and one goalie for each game? Someone has to sit out. And imagine Brodeur doesn't even make this team.

I can see Lindros again.
and no Joe Sakic? no Yzerman over Lindros ? No Esposito? Alright...

 

[authentic]

I’ll build a challenger for these teams, not sure if it would actually challenge in reality but here it goes… (actually, if we do Time Machine only at their peaks maybe it even wins? tell me what you think)

Ovechkin-Forsberg-Jagr
Matthews-Malkin-Kucherov
Mogilny-Fedorov-Bure
Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Hull
Modano, Lafontaine

Lidstrom-Fetisov
Chara-Karlsson
Hedman-Chelios
Leetch

Hasek
Vasilevskiy
Quick

I originally had Kovalchuk in Matthews place, but ultimately I went with the better player and goal scorer, also brings some needed two-way play on top and lined up with two playoff studs. I was also going to put Modano on that last line for an ultimate shutdown line but with two great defensive players already it would help to have someone put the puck in the net on the counter attack.

Overall I feel that is a solid team who really may have the edge in goaltending at least with some lines that would definitely challenge Canadas on the ice more than they might on paper.